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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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Do you guys think it's more likely we find our first line winger via FA or trade? I'm beginning to think trade. I just don't see us paying the money Parise/Semin would make somewhere else. Parenteau may be a possibility, but what a risk to sign a guy to hefty-ish contract after just one really good year. Besides, after the likes of Parise and Semin aren't available anymore, there is going to be a bidding war for Parenteau, if, of course, he even hits FA.

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Do you guys think it's more likely we find our first line winger via FA or trade? I'm beginning to think trade. I just don't see us paying the money Parise/Semin would make somewhere else. Parenteau may be a possibility, but what a risk to sign a guy to hefty-ish contract after just one really good year. Besides, after the likes of Parise and Semin aren't available anymore, there is going to be a bidding war for Parenteau, if, of course, he even hits FA.

You touch on a good point about Parenteau. So far he's a "one-hit" wonder. He would be nice to have but IMO he's not the top line winger the Canes need.

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I think we are as likely to get a first line winger through a trade as free agency. I won't be surprised if we do sign a FA but will keep our options open. I think it is also likely there will be some big names on the move over the off-season. Will see.

The more I think about it (thinking is always dangerous for me) the more I think we will be shopping for three top players. Not necessarily elite talent but top talent. We need (IMO) a top line winger capable of scoring 30 goals or better, a second line center capable of scoring 20 goals or better and who is fast enough to keep up with Skinner and we need another top 4 defensman.

Who I keep

---------- Staal ---------

Skinner -------- Ruutu

Dwyer Sutter Bowman

--------- Brent ------------

----------- Gleason

Harrison Faulk

----------- -----------

It isn't that I wouldn't take Allen back or keep Joslin, Pitkanen, Jussi, LaRose or Tlusty or anyone else but I would go into the off season saying these are the guys I'm building my team around and if an opportunity comes along to fill in the blanks with a better talent I do it. If Allen goes elsewhere I have a plan to replace him and if one of the prospects or vets can earn a spot next year in training camp all the better but if not I move them early.

Ward

_____

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Does anyone know what would happen to players that aren't under contract anywhere this summer if we have a lock out? I would guess there's some sort of players insurance they're entitled to as long as they're good standing members in the NHLPA but I wonder if there's any sort of motivation for the players to be under contract before something like that happens?

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Does anyone know what would happen to players that aren't under contract anywhere this summer if we have a lock out? I would guess there's some sort of players insurance they're entitled to as long as they're good standing members in the NHLPA but I wonder if there's any sort of motivation for the players to be under contract before something like that happens?

From what I can find the players would only get paid from a NHLPA fund so I don't see the advantage for a player to rush a deal. Although I think one issue to be discussed is a cap on the number of years a contract can run. I think 10 years was mentioned. Maybe a high dollar, long term FA might want to sign before the CBA but I don't think it makes much difference to most player. I'm really interpreting what I have found so I guess someone with more knowledge on the subject might be able to tell us.

Now if they remove the cap floor that could drive salaries down in many cases so a player might not want to take a chance and sign asap.

x

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Thanks for finding that. There must be something to being under contract before any kind of lock out happens because the trend this trade deadline was for GM's to re-sign their own players rather than take a chance paying some FA big money with no guarantee of an upgrade in that position. The players seemed more than willing to re-sign too and not just here in Carolina.

You make a good point though about having a set long term deal in place before those deals get ruled against with the new CBA.

Edited by TSA

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Please don't use the "L-O" word.

I've got my head in the sand, just assuming it won't happen. Trying to ignore it.

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Please don't use the "L-O" word.

I've got my head in the sand, just assuming it won't happen. Trying to ignore it.

Sorry wxray1 :(

I would be stunned if it happened but I wouldn't rule out the threat until the new CBA has been agreed to. I don't see the players or owners wanting to commit league suicide again.

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Thanks for finding that. There must be something to being under contract before any kind of lock out happens because the trend this trade deadline was for GM's to re-sign their own players rather than take a chance paying some FA big money with no guarantee of an upgrade in that position. The players seemed more than willing to re-sign too and not just here in Carolina.

You make a good point though about having a set long term deal in place before those deals get ruled against with the new CBA.

That's a very valid observation and I agree there must be a reason for it. Maybe the advantage will be more for the GM then the player. I just don't know.

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Sorry wxray1 :(

I would be stunned if it happened but I wouldn't rule out the threat until the new CBA has been agreed to. I don't see the players or owners wanting to commit league suicide again.

Yeah, I know, I'm just kidding about the "don't talk about."

But seriously, they cannot do this. They can't. So, I'm trying to ignore it. Gonna sign up for season tickets. Put my head in the sand and be happy. Everything will work out.

PLEASE!

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I think we are as likely to get a first line winger through a trade as free agency. I won't be surprised if we do sign a FA but will keep our options open. I think it is also likely there will be some big names on the move over the off-season. Will see.

The more I think about it (thinking is always dangerous for me) the more I think we will be shopping for three top players. Not necessarily elite talent but top talent. We need (IMO) a top line winger capable of scoring 30 goals or better, a second line center capable of scoring 20 goals or better and who is fast enough to keep up with Skinner and we need another top 4 defensman.

Who I keep

---------- Staal ---------

Skinner -------- Ruutu

Dwyer Sutter Bowman

--------- Brent ------------

----------- Gleason

Harrison Faulk

----------- -----------

It isn't that I wouldn't take Allen back or keep Joslin, Pitkanen, Jussi, LaRose or Tlusty or anyone else but I would go into the off season saying these are the guys I'm building my team around and if an opportunity comes along to fill in the blanks with a better talent I do it. If Allen goes elsewhere I have a plan to replace him and if one of the prospects or vets can earn a spot next year in training camp all the better but if not I move them early.

Ward

_____

This is a good post. I agree with everything here. This definitely should be an interesting offseason. JR said two years ago that the following two years are going tough ones for us. Well, it's been two years. I want playoffs next year.

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I'd take Tlusty over Bowman, and I like Dwyer, but on the 4th line and PK, and I'd keep Jussi, he's had an off year, but to have a second line player capable of putting up 30 goals should not be dismissed, and he's a playmaker. After the past several years just don't quite trust JR to fill that many holes.

Edited by remkin

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I'd take Tlusty over Bowman, and I like Dwyer, but on the 4th line and PK, and I'd keep Jussi, he's had an off year, but to have a second line player capable of putting up 30 goals should not be dismissed, and he's a playmaker. After the past several years just don't quite trust JR to fill that many holes.

I'm not saying those holes will all be filled with new players. What I'm saying is the options are open for those spots. Tlusty has a better chance to fill a hole then a FA or a trade but if a trade came up that could help us get a top winger and Tlusty was part of the deal I say take it. Jussi is as likely to stay as anyone but IMO he needs to be on wing so that bumps Ruu to top line opening the Tlusty spot for the missing top line winger.

The team we have on the ice has promise and Muller is getting as much them as he can. We have been rebuilding for almost 3 years and its time to evaluate what we need and how to get it.

I think Bowman is the most promising young player and Dwyer the most under appreciated player on the team. Combined with Sutter it is the one line that consistently plays well. I wouldn't break that line up.

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Dwyer the most under appreciated player on the team. Combined with Sutter it is the one line that consistently plays well. I wouldn't break that line up.

You know I really can't argue with Dwyer on the 3rd line. He is a perfect #9 guy. The third line doesn't have to score much, but it does have to score some, and Dwyer is just not a finisher. That said, so long as the other two guys have some finish, Dwyer is a very nice third liner brining just about everything else.

As a offensive type fan, I like it when all of the top 9 have at least scoring potential and Dwyer just really doesn't. I think it's more a matter of taste, but I think a seriously deep run playoff team has a guy like Dwyer, but on the 4th line.

Jussi has 30 goal potential, and recent evidence suggests Tlusty could be a 20 goal guy.

I agree if one of them brings THE guy back as part of a bigger deal maybe you do it, but then JR has to replace a second guy with scoring chops.

Since Jussi has had a rough year relatively speaking, I would guess his trade value is lower than his value to us, I just can't see him moving.

Tlusty it would depend on the offer, but someone would have to give up a lot for a guy who has had one streak so far. IF we could move Tlusty for a second line center, maybe...

So not that I wouldn't move either of them in the right deal, just don't feel the right deal is likely to come up.

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This is one of those have your cake and eat it too arguments.

I know this has been brought up before, but for the love of Pete, the third line has a defined role. They shut down top lines, and kill penalties. That's their job. ITS NOT AN OFFENSIVE FIRST LINE. Therefore, you don't measure their success by how many individual goals they score. You measure their success by how they shut down the other team's top lines. Personally, I think they've done an awesome job of it most of the year, all things considered.

So, hasn't that checking line put up complimentary points? Aren't we second in the league in shorthanded goals with 10? Just how many points are they supposed to be scoring?

If not Dwyer then who, Rosie? By my count he has 7 points from the third and fourth line, if that's your measuring stick. Personally, I don't want him anywhere near the checking line in Muller's system. Not because he doesn't score, but because he's way too slow, doesn't dig out pucks well along the boards, and takes dumb penalties, which takes him off the ice on the PK.

I'm all for adding more scoring from the checking line, but not by putting a "scorer" there. Defense first. Probably explains a lot of why that line hasn't been messed with, and prospects don't start there.

They are doing their job.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Other than Faulk, the brightest part about this year has been the consistent play of our third line. Mainly due to Sutter, I honestly think it's one of the best shutdown lines in the league. Dwyer has played with Sutter for most of the year and has done an awesome job. I like the idea of having Bowman with them just to add that tiny little offensive wrinkle to the line.

As for Jokinen, I think you can look at him a couple of ways. He has struggled, no doubt. But he has proven he can be a 30 goal scorer. The year he scored those points he mainly played wing, mostly with Staal if I remember correctly. Finding our second line center could bump Jokinen back up to play wing with Staal - of course, Jokinen would not be the first line winger we are all wanting, but Jokinen Staal NewFirstliner sounds like a pretty good first line.

Then comes the question: how do you acquire the first liner/second line center? As mentioned before, it's going to be tough to do so through FA (especially trying to find a second line center, not sure there is one available this year in FA). So trade would be the next option. In order to get value you have to give value. I think Jokinen could be the perfect candidate to be the main piece going out in order to bring a first line guy in, or maybe there will be a team who is Center heavy and needs a winger. We could see an even swap trade - Jokinen or SecondLineCenter.

Of course, a lot of teams would be very interested in McBain or Pitkanen, as well.. but we've already discussed that.

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This is one of those have your cake and eat it too arguments.

I know this has been brought up before, but for the love of Pete, the third line has a defined role. They shut down top lines, and kill penalties. That's their job. ITS NOT AN OFFENSIVE FIRST LINE. Therefore, you don't measure their success by how many individual goals they score. You measure their success by how they shut down the other team's top lines. Personally, I think they've done an awesome job of it most of the year, all things considered.

So, hasn't that checking line put up complimentary points? Aren't we second in the league in shorthanded goals with 10? Just how many points are they supposed to be scoring?

If not Dwyer then who, Rosie? By my count he has 7 points from the third and fourth line, if that's your measuring stick. Personally, I don't want him anywhere near the checking line in Muller's system. Not because he doesn't score, but because he's way too slow, doesn't dig out pucks well along the boards, and takes dumb penalties, which takes him off the ice on the PK.

I'm all for adding more scoring from the checking line, but not by putting a "scorer" there. Defense first. Probably explains a lot of why that line hasn't been messed with, and prospects don't start there.

They are doing their job.

Great points. In today's N&O there's a good article about Dwyer and how he's accepted Muller's non-offensive role for him. Plus Dwyer is so darn fast ... probably can skate faster backwards than Larose can forward.

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All good points, i love how brent has played, especially om PP... theres no reason with a right move , here and there, that we arent a playoff team.. Until last 2 losses, we had 3 best record since feb in all our of hockey.. muller knows how to coach..I wonder if Bowman can fit into mullers system, he certainly has the size to cycle along boards, just wonder about the scoring part..

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I know this has been brought up before, but for the love of Pete, the third line has a defined role. They shut down top lines, and kill penalties. That's their job. ITS NOT AN OFFENSIVE FIRST LINE. Therefore, you don't measure their success by how many individual goals they score. You measure their success by how they shut down the other team's top lines. Personally, I think they've done an awesome job of it most of the year, all things considered.

So, hasn't that checking line put up complimentary points? Aren't we second in the league in shorthanded goals with 10? Just how many points are they supposed to be scoring?

If not Dwyer then who, Rosie? By my count he has 7 points from the third and fourth line, if that's your measuring stick. Personally, I don't want him anywhere near the checking line in Muller's system. Not because he doesn't score, but because he's way too slow, doesn't dig out pucks well along the boards, and takes dumb penalties, which takes him off the ice on the PK.

I'm all for adding more scoring from the checking line, but not by putting a "scorer" there. Defense first. Probably explains a lot of why that line hasn't been messed with, and prospects don't start there.

They are doing their job.

I actually don't think we disagree, probably more a matter of degree. While I completely agree that the 3rd line's primary role is checking, it is not only checking, that's the 4th line. I really have no problem with Dwyer on that line, but I would not want 3 Dwyers on that line. One is fine. Let Sutter and whoever put in a few goals. Shorthanded goals are a bit of a different animal as 4th liners can have as much time on the PK as 3rd liners. On Rosie, I have not done a full breakdown, but I do recall that the years he was mostly on the third line he had a decent plus minus and one year put up 20 goals. Still I think in a lot of ways Rosie is the odd man out. I would NOT put him in the top 6 moving forward, and he's become more than a 4th liner, so it would have to be the third line. But we really don't have a need there. Thus, odd man out.

The other thing is that I think the third line is a ok place to try a prospect. Let them learn some defensive responsiblity, but also get some offensive chances and way more ice time than the 4th line. I'd slot at least one prospect, Sutter, and then fine Dwyer.

Again, I like Dwyer. I know he does all the little things and makes the unsung plays. He is a professional and an asset. He has a reasonable contract. I would not trade him. A very good team could have one guy like him on the third line, but personally I want at least two guys on that line who can score. One of the most effective ways to limit the other guy's top line is to keep them in their own end.

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Our defensive style has undergone a significant change since we got Spacek. Our defense is moving the puck up ice faster, and no longer seem to be icing the puck as much trying to dump and chase. Also they are more selective in how far past the playoff circle they go, prefering the offense to generate the play making. The defense is no longer getting caught behind the play on the other teams breakout. This shown up in Cams GAA dropping and fewer 2 on 1 chances. Package Pitkinen back to Philly, they need help on their back line, for that winger/ center that everyone is looking for.

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JR has three objectives this summer.

Objective 1: Find Staal a linemate

Objective 2: Find Skinner a bodyguard of a center

Objective 3: Shore up the D

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JR has three objectives this summer.

Objective 1: Find Staal a linemate

Objective 2: Find Skinner a bodyguard of a center

Objective 3: Shore up the D

Exactly right..

We've discussed this before, but I think it's going to be tough doing everything through free agency. I really do think we are going to see an interesting trade during the offseason. I wonder if our 1st round pick will be in play. We may have a top 5 pick, but outside Yakupov, the only forwards worth taking that high (IMO) is Grigorenko and Galchenyuk. Grigorenko will be gone by the 3rd pick, and Galchenyuk has been hurt all year. He recently came back, and during his second game got injured once again and is out for some time - injury problems. And I'm sure JR doesn't want to draft another dman..

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David Droschak says JR needs to protect his investment and go out and get an enforcer HurricanesBeat

I don't like goons in hockey but I do see a need for an enforcer. I would like to see us go out and get a guy with some skill who can bring energy and pot some goals but at the same time will drop the gloves when needed. I have seen us pushed around enough the last few seasons.

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David Droschak says JR needs to protect his investment and go out and get an enforcer HurricanesBeat

I don't like goons in hockey but I do see a need for an enforcer. I would like to see us go out and get a guy with some skill who can bring energy and pot some goals but at the same time will drop the gloves when needed. I have seen us pushed around enough the last few seasons.

Maybe more of a tough, skilled (15-20+ goals, good F/O %) guy whose consistent talent could merit being a 2nd line center and not just be Jeff's bodyguard. Are there any such animals running around the NHL? Guess I always think of an enforcer as a notch or two above a goon, not a 2nd line center.

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