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jeromeo87

2012 Off Season Discussion

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OK, so again we talk about the big name free agents. It might be fun to list all of the big name FA we've supposedly been in the running for in the last 5 years.

OK so I got that out of my system. Somehow i really do think this time it's different, and we will land at least one substantial name, maybe two (but if we land 2 someone of fairly decent substance might have to go?).

Why? All of the reasons listed above: new ownership, great young coach, solid core playing very well, realizing (as I've been telling them) that they are a piece or two away. Ok that wasn't mentioned above.

But a couple of other reasons. This team needs a playoff appearance. Seriously, if JR/PK do little and assume because we've had yet another late season run that means that this team, complete with warm memories of that winning feeling is ready to compete with the elite teams...then lays another....egg next year. NOT good. There is natural interest building in this team despite everything. But it is not embedded firmly. It can go away with another bad season. Look at me. Watching this team go on another meaningless late season run is almost as annoying as it is fun. We miss the playoffs next year do I renew my season tickets?

The other thing is an extension of the building interest. If the Canes go out and sign Parise and Suter? Seriously, will that not sell season tickets? To some extent people buying season tickets are buying into the season. We've had a bunch of dead end late season runs and manufactured optimism in the likes of Poni, and others, but take a late season run and add Parise, let alone Parise and Suter? How can this team, the way they are playing under Muller, tweaked and massively upgraded with two All Star caliber additions NOT make the playoffs? How can this team with two mega additions not generate a ton of interest and excitement and ticket sales. This would be huge news not only because of how much optimism there would be, but since the Canes have never done this before.

The other thing, and I'm no expert here, but we have a bunch of reasonably priced solid players. If we move a couple of key guys and their salaries out, there ought to be room for at least one of these guys.

Edit: I knew there was one more thing. Since this team has refused to lose, we are likely not getting a top draft pick. That is even more reason to pick guys up via trade or free agency.

Part of me realizes that we let Cole walk over less than half of what these two guys would make combined, and this team never goes after big name free agents despite all of our talk about the idea that they might, but then part of me thinks this time is different.

Edited by remkin

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It would be great to get Parise and Suter. Look at all the butts in seats we have now. A few things that may let JR go big: 1) new owners, 2) new TV & radio contracts this summer, 3) 2012-13 ticket revenue, and 4) a diminishing 1st round pick (ie: tradeable). Of course, players will have to leave for each player brought in the fold, which will free up some salary too.

Hope the comments about JR & PK are true!

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Man, talk about pinch me i'm dreaming situations. This is of course assuming that one or both of these guys actually goes to test the waters in free agency. I think that PK and JR have heard from the fans and players, and realize that the grace period is running up and they need to make a few bold moves that won't bite us in the rump (kaberle...) The home town discounts that some of our guys have took may be the difference in us affording one or both of these guys.

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I'm not sure.. what would Parise go for in the open market? An average of $6-$7 mil a year?

Suter would get.. what? $5 mil? Maybe more?

http://prohockeytalk...nt-this-summer/

Good timing with releasing this article..

Very cool tweet I just pulled out of that article, thanks for posting :)

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Man.. can you imagine both Parise and Suter coming to this team next year...

I don't really think salary would be that much of an issue.. Spacek probably coming off of the books.. trades are always possible.. (maybe Pitkanen to make room for Suter).. will be intersting to see what happens with Allen. Maybe if we can sign both Parise and Suter, Allen would take a small discount to stay on the team..

I like this.

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Are we really going to fork out money this off season? Has management finally listened to our ramblings, do these new investors really put more money in the bank?

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I guess I'm more in the Parise side but I think his price is out of reach if you guys speculation is correct, our offensive duct tape job is great and all but I can't see this offensive unit standing the test of 82 games unless our big boys get some real help.

I really feel our defense has enough flashy guys, way more then 06 had. I am of the belief that a defense could have 7 good defensemen and if they all buy into a system can play like 7 great defensemen. Who out of Hedican, Wesley, Commodore, Wallin, Ward, Kaberle and Tverdovsky comes out at you as an All-star? Tver might have been at one point but he wasn't that year. We had one offensive defensemen and 5 heart, do whatever it takes to keep the puck outta the goal guys and then there was Tver making sure the bench was warm.

Unless Joni goes I really think the focus is the front end.

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I guess I'm more in the Parise side but I think his price is out of reach if you guys speculation is correct, our offensive duct tape job is great and all but I can't see this offensive unit standing the test of 82 games unless our big boys get some real help.

I really feel our defense has enough flashy guys, way more then 06 had. I am of the belief that a defense could have 7 good defensemen and if they all buy into a system can play like 7 great defensemen. Who out of Hedican, Wesley, Commodore, Wallin, Ward, Kaberle and Tverdovsky comes out at you as an All-star? Tver might have been at one point but he wasn't that year. We had one offensive defensemen and 5 heart, do whatever it takes to keep the puck outta the goal guys and then there was Tver making sure the bench was warm.

Unless Joni goes I really think the focus is the front end.

Honestly, I don't know that much about Suter's game. I know he puts up the numbers, but isn't he really defensively reliable, as well?

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I'm sure he is he's highly tauted but we're gonna be pinned in our own end unless we do some real patch work on the offensive lines.

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I believe the Canes are 13th in the league for goals per game so I'd say the offense is fine. They are 25th in the league in goals against per game. Straighten that out and there's your playoff team.

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If we are going after both Parise and Suter, yes, Parise should be our first target. We have to get that winger for Staal.

As for Suter, if we are able to land him, does that mean Allen walks? Since Suter puts up numbers, do we trade Pitkanen in order to afford him? Or do we trade McBain, who won't be signed to a contract but will be a RFA?

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If we are going after both Parise and Suter, yes, Parise should be our first target. We have to get that winger for Staal.

As for Suter, if we are able to land him, does that mean Allen walks? Since Suter puts up numbers, do we trade Pitkanen in order to afford him? Or do we trade McBain, who won't be signed to a contract but will be a RFA?

My vote would be to try and move McBain. Nothing against the guy (think he's developing quite nicely), but I feel Pitkanen brings more right now. Going after big-name UFAs like that means we're going for it right now (not a few years from now). However, that's a good bit of salary to add without moving much from our current roster. That may mean someone like Pitkanen still gets moved instead of the more affordable McBain.

Here's another scenario I've been thinking about. Let's assume that we can't just go out and sign both Weber and Parise (not a terribly unlikely situation). For the sake of this argument, let's say we get Weber. Maybe JR could try to package McBain or Pitkanen with our 1st rounder to go after someone like Bobby Ryan. We fill both needs and clear room for the new additions at the same time, possibly shedding some salary along the way to lessen the salary increase.

The proposed scenario could work the other way as well, with us signing Parise and going after a top defenseman with the same assets. I still feel these types of moves are unlikely, as we haven't seen stuff like this very often from JR. Holding out hope that the recent statements actually lead to this more aggressive approach in the off-season.

Edited by Stealth-ch1

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My vote would be to try and move McBain. Nothing against the guy (think he's developing quite nicely), but I feel Pitkanen brings more right now. Going after big-name UFAs like that means we're going for it right now (not a few years from now). However, that's a good bit of salary to add without moving much from our current roster. That may mean someone like Pitkanen still gets moved instead of the more affordable McBain.

Here's another scenario I've been thinking about. Let's assume that we can't just go out and sign both Weber and Parise (not a terribly unlikely situation). For the sake of this argument, let's say we get Weber. Maybe JR could try to package McBain or Pitkanen with our 1st rounder to go after someone like Bobby Ryan. We fill both needs and clear room for the new additions at the same time, possibly shedding some salary along the way to lessen the salary increase.

The proposed scenario could work the other way as well, with us signing Parise and going after a top defenseman with the same assets. I still feel these types of moves are unlikely, as we haven't seen stuff like this very often from JR. Holding out hope that the recent statements actually lead to this more aggressive approach in the off-season.

Trading for the top winger and signing Suter has come to my mind, as well.

Maybe JR and PK are feeling really spunky and are thinking about signing Parise, trying to get Suter, AND trading for a second line center. IF that happens, I'm about positive Pitkanen's contract would have to go.

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Eh. I think it's season ticket re-up time, right? Coincidence?

There is very little chance Suter leaves Nashville. Parise probably will leave NJ, but to come here? They sure are doing a good job of selling the program right now, that's for sure.

I believe JR wants to sign a big $ forward and might try to find one on D too, but the FA market is slim this summer. I think putting this talk out there right now has a lot to do with the STH renewals. Whether JR can actually pull it off is another story. But I am looking forward to July 1 more than ever. :)

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Eh. I think it's season ticket re-up time, right? Coincidence?

No doubt the timing is curious but the plus is that its coming from other credible sources outside of the organization. JR would look foolish to leak out those kind of statements without planning on backing them up imo but I have to assume that at leat 20 other teams are also interested in Suter and Parise too.

The Canes certainly have plenty of cap space to work with and can create whatever roster spaces they need to make this work but the bidding war for these top players will be tough (see Erik Cole/Mon).

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I will say this to those who are a touch cynical about us adding Suter and Parise. You're right.

Just read an article on next year's likely top free agents. Parise is the #1 offensive guy, and Suter is the #1 defensive guy.

So both are coming to Carolina right?

I like to dream as much as the next guy, but since I've been a fan we've never signed one FA of that caliber (unless you count TKabcoollaugh.gif), let alone 2.

There is no doubt that if somehow that happened, we'd be an instant contender, not just to make the playoffs, but to go deep. But there's also almost no doubt that it won't happen.

Now getting either ONE of those guys would be huge and clearly Parise finally gets us that top line.

I know people say oh we're number 13 on offense so that's fine...no that's average and we were giving up the defensive side to get it.

Get Parise and the place goes nuts. That sells tickets. Get Suter and trade a bit further down the board for a legit first line, but not marque guy...that's more likely.

BTW that article on the Canes looking for these guys has comments from the peanut gallery and they are 100%, Parise to Canes, yeah right. Lets show'em.

Edited by remkin

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OK, gotta add some more on the Parise thing. Suter would be great, but we have too many defensemen, and so many teams will be going after both of these guys and Parise is the sexy pick that make the big splash and puts us on the map. And it isn't so crazy. Sure it's a long shot, but it's not crazy.

From Parise's Vantage: He has made it clear that he wants cup runs, and NJ just doesn't seem to be doing that. So at first glance why go to lowly Carolina. Because first glance misses a LOT. First, this team has played great under our new coach. 22-16-10 (or about that) under Muller, while teams are trying to make the playoffs and with a bit of a rag tag team. Second, Muller himself, clearly a guy players want to play for. Third, lots of potential young talent. Fourth, while we are not a big market, a lot of players like to play here (see Pitkanen, Ruutu, Jussi, Gleason, Staal, Ward, etc.). Fifth. We have very solid second and third lines. Sixth, we have the new and improved all world Eric Staal. Sixth, we have a history of deep playoff runs. Seventh, we have the cap space. Eighth, we have Cam Ward.

From the Canes Vantage: One big move that makes it all different instantly. One, we are no longer the tiny market that no stars want to go to. Second, the fan base will go ga-ga (including this one), and season tickets will go north fast. Third, repeated playoffs for direct revenue and more STH. Fourth: Finally shows Staal that the team is committed to HIM getting: 1. A real first line mate (unlocking his true potential to work off of another great player, and taking defensive pressure off of him). 2. Having a team with legit chops.

The Canes have the cap room to give Parise a long deal. With Parise, Staal, and Skinner, we will have 3 superstars. Then with Ruutu, Jussi and maybe Tlusty, we have 3 guys with next level skills. With Sutter plus we have a shut down line that can also pot some goals. Parise, Staal, Skinner, Ruutu, Jokinen, Tlusty, Sutter. That is actually a very nice offensive core.

Parise-Staal-Tlusty

Jokinen-Ruutu-Skinner

LaRose-Sutter-Stewart

Goon-Brent-Dwyer

You can mix and match the third and 4th lines, maybe throw Bowman in there...

You have two 40 goal scorers and a guy in Tlusty that you cannot leave alone on the first line.

But if you focus on the big name, the second line will get you. I

In a way that's our secret weapon: a second line with 2 guys who can put up 30 goals and a solid 25 goal power forward.

And the third line will check you and can seriously score too with 3 guys that can be mentioned with the term 20 goal scorer with a straight face.

OK. I'll stop now.

Edited by remkin

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From Parise's Vantage: He has made it clear that he wants cup runs, and NJ just doesn't seem to be doing that. So at first glance why go to lowly Carolina. Because first glance misses a LOT. First, this team has played great under our new coach. 22-16-10 (or about that) under Muller, while teams are trying to make the playoffs and with a bit of a rag tag team. Second, Muller himself, clearly a guy players want to play for. Third, lots of potential young talent. Fourth, while we are not a big market, a lot of players like to play here (see Pitkanen, Ruutu, Jussi, Gleason, Staal, Ward, etc.). Fifth. We have very solid second and third lines. Sixth, we have the new and improved all world Eric Staal. Sixth, we have a history of deep playoff runs. Seventh, we have the cap space. Eighth, we have Cam Ward.

Zach still probably remembers his apparent game winning goal in the playoffs of 2006, with 0:20 on the clock, and then what went wrong after that (Brindy and Staal).

Staal. Who wouldn't want to play with that guy?

I still think we're dreaming... but you never know.

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Eh. I think it's season ticket re-up time, right? Coincidence?

There is very little chance Suter leaves Nashville. Parise probably will leave NJ, but to come here? They sure are doing a good job of selling the program right now, that's for sure.

I believe JR wants to sign a big $ forward and might try to find one on D too, but the FA market is slim this summer. I think putting this talk out there right now has a lot to do with the STH renewals. Whether JR can actually pull it off is another story. But I am looking forward to July 1 more than ever. :)

I'm not so sure.. Nashville wants to resign Suter, Weber, and Radulov. Many do not think the money is there.

http://watch.tsn.ca/featured/clip642562#clip642562

They mention Carolina a little bit before halfway through.

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Its a possibility but imo Radulov came back to finish his contract and become a UFA and get out of Nashville.

Unless he lost his UFA rights with jumping town which if life was fair he should.

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No doubt the timing is curious but the plus is that its coming from other credible sources outside of the organization. JR would look foolish to leak out those kind of statements without planning on backing them up imo but I have to assume that at leat 20 other teams are also interested in Suter and Parise too.

Well, it's coming from sources who got their information from inside the organization. That just takes a call or email. But getting that out now sends a message, even if he can't or doesn't follow through. Maybe he only ends up with #4 or 5 on the UFA list, but well "we tried".

There were statements about increased spending back when the new owners were announced. Of course they really don't have much choice if they want people to show up the team to be competitive. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Re: Radulov, supposedly he will have to go back to Russia unless his supposed 5 million contract is bought out at 2/3 the cost. But Nashville has sizeable cap space and Poile is a near genius at managing it, I think they'll keep their core. It is BS that he was allowed back like that but Nashville is desperate.

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I don't know if it's been mentioned in awhile, but I just saw that Weber is due to be an RFA this summer (unless I'm mistaken). If that's the case, we'd either have to trade for his rights or compensate the Preds with the obligatory draft picks, etc.

With that in mind, I think I'd be leaning more toward Parise. We've been looking for Staal's winger for years and he would qualify. Then, if we feel the need to upgrade the defense, maybe that's something we look into doing via trade.

I would hesitate to move someone like Pitkanen though. People can be concerned about his defensive acumen, bad penalties, etc., but it would almost make any move we make a lateral one. We might improve defensively, but we'd be giving up a substantial offensive component. I would much rather give up McBain plus picks/prospects (could possibly throw in a depth forward).

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