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jeromeo87

2012 NHL Trade Deadline

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I just realized the deadline is February 27th, ya'll had me feeling like it was next week.

How can anyone get this excited about something a month and a half away? These journalists are writing almost anything to stir rumors that are half baked at best.

Wish we could discuss upcoming games like we discuss dealing our team away.

Because unfortunately this season hasn't given us a lot of options to get excited talking about. The trade deadline might not be until the end of Feb but plenty of deals get done sooner rather than later.

I agree that much of the trade talk out there is just rumors but when you see the same rumors coming from several different sources including reputable ones, its seems reasonable to talk about them.

So does this mean you'll start the GDT for us on Jan 23rd, that would be some game talk :grin:

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I would hope that if we are trading for picks that we trade with bubble teams. Even better a team that is overachieving and a bubble team. I have no idea who they might need, but take a team like Winnipeg. They will have a huge desire to make the playoffs for their new city and might get a bit bubbly. They sit in 10th, but are a -13. They sit at #21 in the league at the moment. They would have the #9 pick as of now. But they could easily slide back a few notches. Now we'd be picking #7. I wonder if anybody good every went #7?wink.gif

Calgary would be even better.

The other thing is this. We have 2 second rounders and likely will compile even more picks this year. One would think with a bevy of picks that JR could trade some of these picks to get some help sooner. Or better still, move up the board. The problem is that teams usually don't want to pass on the next star, so draft day trades in the top 5 seem fairly unusual.

No doubt we need keep our highest first round pick, but late first rounders tend to be closer to second rounders than elite prospects, and we need help sooner than 3-4 years from now. Get the picks and trade'em.

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Predators could pursue Ruutu

TheFourthPeriod.com

Not sure if this one was posted or not:

Players for sale in Carolina

TheFourthPeriod.com

The Canes have struggled since the start of the season and currently sit in 14th place of the Eastern Conference, 11 points out of a playoff spot. Forwards Tuomo Ruutu and Alexei Ponikarovsky, and defensemen Bryan Allen, Jaroslav Spacek and Tim Gleason are available and could bring a return that would allow Rutherford to commit to a team rebuild. The GM was also trying to deal blueliner Joni Pitkanen, who has two years remaining on his contract with a cap hit of $4.5 million, before he underwent knee surgery last week. Several teams have been shopping for defensive help, while it has been reported that the San Jose Sharks could hold interest in acquiring either Gleason or Spacek to boost their blueline.

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Makes you wonder if Pitkanen was the main piece in a deal to bring in a legit top winger.

Edited by jeromeo87

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Makes you wonder if Pitkanen was the main piece in a deal to bring in a legit top winger.

Maybe so and it really makes you wonder who the keepers are moving forward. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

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No doubt we need keep our highest first round pick...

I was thinking a lot about this yesterday, thinking back 2 years to when we got Skinner, and there was a contingent of fans (me included) openly hoping we would tank to get a better pick. I was gleefully happy to be wrong as we got a real gem in Skinner.

Nonetheless, I once again started thinking along the same lines and realizing in watching this team closely in the past couple weeks, that it is highly unlikely that we are going to have a top 5 pick.

For a while, we looked like a shoe-in to be one of the worst teams in the league, but this team is going to rise in the standings. Playoffs, I don't think are close to possible, but losing a high draft pick, absolutely. We are changing the culture of losing and doing quite well at it. The hole is just too deep for the playoffs, but progressing as a team, we absolutely are doing.

Thus, I make my plea to JR to FIND A GREAT DEAL FOR THE FIRST ROUND PICK today, while it still appears to have great value. Our current position implies we are going to have a top 5 draft pick, and it just isn't going to happen. So sell it while it has high value.

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Makes you wonder if Pitkanen was the main piece in a deal to bring in a legit top winger.

I hope you're right. It would be great to use our high-end defensemen and maybe a prospect or two to get a top 6 scoring winger. Focusing on draft picks to "rebuild" again. How many times since 2006 have the management and announcers characterized the Canes as "rebuilding". BLAH! Gues I lived in Detroiit to long to be patient with JR and PK (a Detroit-er...go figure).

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Maybe so and it really makes you wonder who the keepers are moving forward. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

IMO JR should keep his 3-Top 6 forwards ... Staal, Skinner, & Ruutu (re-sign him)... and Sutter. I guess all UFA's, except Ruutu, are available to get another true Top 6 scorer.

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I was thinking a lot about this yesterday, thinking back 2 years to when we got Skinner, and there was a contingent of fans (me included) openly hoping we would tank to get a better pick. I was gleefully happy to be wrong as we got a real gem in Skinner.

Nonetheless, I once again started thinking along the same lines and realizing in watching this team closely in the past couple weeks, that it is highly unlikely that we are going to have a top 5 pick.

For a while, we looked like a shoe-in to be one of the worst teams in the league, but this team is going to rise in the standings. Playoffs, I don't think are close to possible, but losing a high draft pick, absolutely. We are changing the culture of losing and doing quite well at it. The hole is just too deep for the playoffs, but progressing as a team, we absolutely are doing.

Thus, I make my plea to JR to FIND A GREAT DEAL FOR THE FIRST ROUND PICK today, while it still appears to have great value. Our current position implies we are going to have a top 5 draft pick, and it just isn't going to happen. So sell it while it has high value.

I agree with much of what you say. Sorry for picking on part of your post because I really do agree with most of it and most of what you write. But.....

I'm going to risk some flaming here, but what the heck.

The culture of winning in a losing year is vastly overrated. Now don't get me wrong. I absolutely think it would be very damaging for a team's players to stop playing to win. But learning that winning feeling in an off year to carry to the next year is a bunch of malarky. These same arguments were trotted out when we were seriously in the hunt for a top pick 2 year ago. But instead of getting a top pick, we got that winning feeling and climbed up the standings but not the playoffs. OK, so then we got bailed out by Skinner being a top 5 caliber pick, so with that and that winning feeling we should have had a great year right? I mean we got that winning feeling at the end of the year. Not only that, but we got not one but two unexpected gifts: a resurgent Cole and a stunningly effective 18 year old rookie. But we still missed the playoffs anyway in a sport where over half of the teams make it.

Sure teams do need to have the attitude to work and find ways to win battles and win. But unless the team lays down and quits this year, it can still do all of that in 2012-13. Lots of teams have stunk out loud for years, but what eventually turned them around, was not so much that last year's team learned how to win a few games, but that this year they got Crosby or Malkin or Toews, or Ovechkin, or even Staal etc. and at a decent price.

The team absolutely needs to play to win. The coach needs to mostly coach to win. It is the GM's job to help us lose this year for the greater good. It is a quiet, thankless job. But it's his. Trade our free agents. Bring the kids up. Rest Cam. Roll 4 lines. If the team still wins, so be it. But it is not best for the team to win. The best thing would be a top 2 pick.

The winning feeling from this year will be modest at best since we will miss the playoffs. Further much of the team will be changed next year. Further, if we don't get more talent that winning feeling will become a losing feeling real quick next year. What we need is more talent. Get one elite guy to build on our core and add a couple of key pieces. That will lead to actual wins, and that will give us the winning feeling. Getting another Boychuk midround vs. an elite talent? Not worth the winning feeling. We need the winning feeling by actually winning something besides a few meaningless games in a shot season.

Edited by remkin

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IMO JR should keep his 3-Top 6 forwards ... Staal, Skinner, & Ruutu (re-sign him)... and Sutter. I guess all UFA's, except Ruutu, are available to get another true Top 6 scorer.

Oops, should have specified I meant on defense.

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I agree with much of what you say. Sorry for picking on part of your post because I really do agree with most of it and most of what you write. But.....

I'm going to risk some flaming here, but what the heck.

The culture of winning in a losing year is vastly overrated. Now don't get me wrong. I absolutely think it would be very damaging for a team's players to stop playing to win. But learning that winning feeling in an off year to carry to the next year is a bunch of malarky. These same arguments were trotted out when we were seriously in the hunt for a top pick 2 year ago. But instead of getting a top pick, we got that winning feeling and climbed up the standings but not the playoffs. OK, so then we got bailed out by Skinner being a top 5 caliber pick, so with that and that winning feeling we should have had a great year right? I mean we got that winning feeling at the end of the year. Not only that, but we got not one but two unexpected gifts: a resurgent Cole and a stunningly effective 18 year old rookie. But we still missed the playoffs anyway in a sport where over half of the teams make it.

Sure teams do need to have the attitude to work and find ways to win battles and win. But unless the team lays down and quits this year, it can still do all of that in 2012-13. Lots of teams have stunk out loud for years, but what eventually turned them around, was not so much that last year's team learned how to win a few games, but that this year they got Crosby or Malkin or Toews, or Ovechkin, or even Staal etc. and at a decent price.

The team absolutely needs to play to win. The coach needs to mostly coach to win. It is the GM's job to help us lose this year for the greater good. It is a quiet, thankless job. But it's his. Trade our free agents. Bring the kids up. Rest Cam. Roll 4 lines. If the team still wins, so be it. But it is not best for the team to win. The best thing would be a top 2 pick.

The winning feeling from this year will be modest at best since we will miss the playoffs. Further much of the team will be changed next year. Further, if we don't get more talent that winning feeling will become a losing feeling real quick next year. What we need is more talent. Get one elite guy to build on our core and add a couple of key pieces. That will lead to actual wins, and that will give us the winning feeling. Getting another Boychuk midround vs. an elite talent? Not worth the winning feeling. We need the winning feeling by actually winning something besides a few meaningless games in a shot season.

I don't disagree with most of what you say here either.

I would love to get an elite player with the pick. But I don't think we are going to be that bad, even with trading away some or even all of our free agents to be...

We are playing a LOT better, actually being able to play with the better teams in the conference. A lot of this has to do with the youngsters finally getting a chance to get serious minutes and start to play. We aren't going to trade Staal, Skinner, BraSutter, or Ward. We're not likely to trade Jokinen, Pitkanen, as they are not in contract years. We may trade away some of the D and that could make us worse, but if we trade for players instead of picks, it is reasonable to believe that we get equal or better talent back.

I just don't see us doing a good job of tanking, especially when Muller and the rest of the staff are addressing problem after problem and gradually fixing stuff that has been broken for a looooong time. (Aside: I loved it when Tripp was talking about a drill Muller was running shortly after taking over where the team was practicing skating with the puck without looking at the puck. Amazing what you can do when you look at where you are going and where your teammates are. Attention to detail.)

I'm just making my wager, that even with the best efforts to tank, we're just not going to be bad enough. So I'm not going with the tanking this time. (I really didn't have it in my heart last time either, it didn't feel right.) This time I'm going with, trade the pick while it has max value.

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Just to add to the current discussion, it isn't just about the draft pick or what the team feels, winning or otherwise. The main issue that PK is worried about is butts in the seat. Canaics will see a 9-10th place team if they are playing hard. If the team/management phones it in for the last half of the season fans are not going to buy tickets, renew season tickets, buy new jerseys, ect, ect.

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Just to add to the current discussion, it isn't just about the draft pick or what the team feels, winning or otherwise. The main issue that PK is worried about is butts in the seat. Canaics will see a 9-10th place team if they are playing hard. If the team/management phones it in for the last half of the season fans are not going to buy tickets, renew season tickets, buy new jerseys, ect, ect.

That, and I have to think the players take a little pride in what they do and the way they've been playing recently certainly backs this theory up. They want to see fans come to the games too and I highly doubt they'd let an entire season go down the drain without at least a fight. I'm fairly sure they all want jobs either here or somewhere else next season ;)

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JR please do not do with Ruutu, Gleason and Poni what you did with Whitney(huge lose). We want these guys around so if you are going to keep them sign them now instead of waiting until the off season and lose them to free agency. Ruutu and Gleason deserve the contract and Poni has emerged as a top line forward. 16 games without Skinner is really the reason for the season. He was on track to be a 40 goal scorer this year and we probably would have won 4-5 more games with him in the line-up. That means we would be either on the cusp or the #8 seed right now. We want some consistency here beyond Staal and Ward.

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Just to be clear, I am not advocating that the players try to lose. I think that they have to try to play to win. But giving Cam a reasonable amount of rest, getting picks for some vets and bringing up our prospects is entirely reasonable. At the end of the day, an elite pick is worth some losses. Pay me now or pay me later. We've been paying later with 9th place finishes for about 5 years now. Gotta play to win. Hope we lose. Just one time. Add one more elite piece to Staal, Skinner, Ward.

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Just to be clear, I am not advocating that the players try to lose. I think that they have to try to play to win. But giving Cam a reasonable amount of rest, getting picks for some vets and bringing up our prospects is entirely reasonable. At the end of the day, an elite pick is worth some losses. Pay me now or pay me later. We've been paying later with 9th place finishes for about 5 years now. Gotta play to win. Hope we lose. Just one time. Add one more elite piece to Staal, Skinner, Ward.

Not sure how many picks we need. We seem to have a lot of propects. We need players, as you have said all year.

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Would you give up our 1st rounder for a 3 year or so contact, 60-70 pt/season, power forward?

Yes. The future is now. Always

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Would you give up our 1st rounder for a 3 year or so contact, 60-70 pt/season, power forward?

I guess I'd say "It depends." When are we picking? Getting the next Crosby on an entry deal is different than getting the next Boychuk. If we are picking middle of the pack I'd definitely make that trade. Top 5, no way.

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Not sure how many picks we need. We seem to have a lot of propects. We need players, as you have said all year.

Just like the trade proposition above and the whole fail for Nail thing, so much depends on the pick. It's all about playing the odds. Lately we've beaten the odds, which makes my arguement harder. Skinner is worthy of a top 2-3 pick but we got him at seven. Faulk, McBain, even Dalpe, Bowman have been good to very good second rounders.

But despite that, the odds of getting an elite level player drop with each position in the draft. If one goes back 15 years and looks at the first two picks, nearly all of them have been long term impact players. But over that same time of all first rounders only about 1/2 even saw 100 NHL games.

So for me, get that top 2 pick and keep it. Basically use our highest first and second round picks, and trade the rest.

If we get picks for Gleason, Allen, maybe Ruutu (hope we sign him) then our extra second rounder, keep the highest in each round, trade the rest.

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Just like the trade proposition above and the whole fail for Nail thing, so much depends on the pick. It's all about playing the odds. Lately we've beaten the odds, which makes my arguement harder. Skinner is worthy of a top 2-3 pick but we got him at seven. Faulk, McBain, even Dalpe, Bowman have been good to very good second rounders.

But despite that, the odds of getting an elite level player drop with each position in the draft. If one goes back 15 years and looks at the first two picks, nearly all of them have been long term impact players. But over that same time of all first rounders only about 1/2 even saw 100 NHL games.

So for me, get that top 2 pick and keep it. Basically use our highest first and second round picks, and trade the rest.

If we get picks for Gleason, Allen, maybe Ruutu (hope we sign him) then our extra second rounder, keep the highest in each round, trade the rest.

I like your analysis but the Canes need help like yesterday. Seems like we could use defensemen, prospects, and draft choices to bundle an offer for one or two Top 6 forwards now, especially while our draft choices might be worth more because we are towards the bottom instead of in 9th place by Feb deadline.

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From TFP:

Wings getting ready for the deadline

The Wings are believed to have interest in forwards Tuomo Ruutu of the Carolina Hurricanes and Ales Hemsky of the Edmonton Oilers, who could both benefit from a change of scenery.

Full blog here

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Did you guys see this from our good friends at canescountry? http://www.canescountry.com/2012/1/19/2718285/potential-tim-gleason-for-jakub-voracek-trade-has-history-on-its-side

Interesting proposal.. I'd rather see if we can package something together to get James van Riemsdyk. I'm not sure if he's available, but I remember reading a lot of rumors about JVR to TOR for Schenn.

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From NHL.COM

Carolina GM Jim Rutherford told NHL.com Tuesday that his phone has been ringing often since the holiday freeze was lifted last month, but he hasn't heard anything that has piqued his interest yet. Then on Wednesday he struck a four-player trade with Florida GM Dale Tallon that netted him Russian prospect Evgenii Dadonov.

It probably won't be the biggest deal Rutherford will do before the trade deadline on Feb. 27 at 3 p.m. ET.

Read More - TradeWindsBlowing

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Did you guys see this from our good friends at canescountry? http://www.canescountry.com/2012/1/19/2718285/potential-tim-gleason-for-jakub-voracek-trade-has-history-on-its-side

Interesting proposal.. I'd rather see if we can package something together to get James van Riemsdyk. I'm not sure if he's available, but I remember reading a lot of rumors about JVR to TOR for Schenn.

Go for both of them...Cane's need at least 2 high end guys. As you say package some D-men (excl Faulk & McBain), a couple of prospects, and one of our 2nd round draft picks, and maybe Poni or similar forward (excl Ruutu, Sutter, Jokinen)

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Go for both of them...Cane's need at least 2 high end guys. As you say package some D-men (excl Faulk & McBain), a couple of prospects, and one of our 2nd round draft picks, and maybe Poni or similar forward (excl Ruutu, Sutter, Jokinen)

Ruutu will be one of the players that will/should go for one of the better returns. If JR wants to re-sign him in the summer, he can still do that. JR doesn't do deals during the season and it's too risky to let a guy like that walk and get nothing in return if you are running a budget (cheap) team like the Canes.

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