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jeromeo87

2012 NHL Trade Deadline

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Sova has an intriguing skill set and will be one to keep a close eye on as he plays his first full season of pro hockey in 2011-12. While likely not a top four talent, Sova could eventually emerge into a solid third-pairing blue liner who can contribute on the power-play.

Hmmmm, didn't we read that about Jay Harrison at one point? You just never know ;)

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Hmmmm, didn't we read that about Jay Harrison at one point? You just never know ;)

I remember reading that about Seidenberg too. While our top d prospects are pretty darned good, not sure how great the depth chart would be with Faulk, McBain, and Murphy all here. Depends on trades I guess. Like you said, you never know.

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Ok So this is the crazy Rumor mill so far as far as who is interested

Ruutu

Toronto

Nashville

Detroit

Boston

Dallas

Gleason

Philly

San Jose

Boston

Spacek

San Jose

Allen

?

Who do we want from each of these teams? Obviously we are going to need some salary. Maybe we take on a bad contract on the end of it to get a valuable pick.

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As long as Gleason is available I don't see other teams being too interested in Allen. Both guys play a similar style, have similar salaries and are left handed shots. One big exception though, Allen has a NTC and could command some concessions from an interested team before agreeing to a trade ala Wallin and Whitney.

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Which would also seriously hinder what we get if any of the teams willing to make a real offer aren't on his shortlist. He'd be the type of guy the best we might get is a 3rd rounder from a team that just wants some depth rather then a guy to step in.

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I've been thinking that the best outcome of compiling a bunch of picks is packaging them to either trade, or try to move up the draft board. I just doubt that 3rd and 4th round picks help much. Now a second rounder..and definitely a first rounder is some ammo.

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I've been thinking that the best outcome of compiling a bunch of picks is packaging them to either trade, or try to move up the draft board. I just doubt that 3rd and 4th round picks help much. Now a second rounder..and definitely a first rounder is some ammo.

Not questioning your logic, but just throwing this out there for anyone who knows where to find information (easily).

Is there info available (somewhere) on the current (or recent year) NHL rosters and the % drafted by round, including undrafted players? Any other similar stats?

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I've been thinking that the best outcome of compiling a bunch of picks is packaging them to either trade, or try to move up the draft board. I just doubt that 3rd and 4th round picks help much. Now a second rounder..and definitely a first rounder is some ammo.

I think your assessment of 3rd & 4th round picks is accurate. That JR is a shrewed guy getting another prospect defenseman and a 4th round draft pick ... just what the Canes need. Wish he would be more aggressive about going after a Top 6 scoring forward with a bundle of assets instead of sitting back and waiting for teams to come to him for a single asset (UFA). Doubt there's any significant trade value at this point in time for any non-1st round draft picks unles they are bundled. Don't really believe JR and PK are going to try to significantly improve the team with a "big" trade and resigning Ruutu (against JR's arcane rules). Whew! I feel better now...

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Not questioning your logic, but just throwing this out there for anyone who knows where to find information (easily).

Is there info available (somewhere) on the current (or recent year) NHL rosters and the % drafted by round, including undrafted players? Any other similar stats?

Here's a few stats to think about:

Since 1997, the Canes have drafted 110 players. Eighteen (16%) of those have played more than 100 NHL games. Of those 18 players, 8 (45%) were first round picks, 2 (11%) were second round picks, 3 (16%) were 3rd rounders, 4 (22%) were 4th rounders, and 1 (6%) was an 8th rounder.

The 8 players who were first round picks by the Canes and ended up playing more than 100 NHL games include:

Skinner, Tlusty (Paradise trade), Jack Johnson, Andrew Ladd, Eric Staal, Cam Ward, and David Tanabe.

First round busts include:

Zach Boychuk (?), Igor Knyazev, Jeff Heerema, and Nikos Tselios.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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From Spector's Hockey:

The Flyers are interested in Gleason. Ok we knew that but how about this.

The Hurricanes want top prospects or two first round picks for Jaroslav Spacek, Bryan Allen, Tuomo Ruutu and Tim Gleason…

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[quote name='Manwolf' timestamp='1327251815' post='356352'

Is there info available (somewhere) on the current (or recent year) NHL rosters and the % drafted by round, including undrafted players? Any other similar stats?

Well I researched it from a different angle a while ago. Some site said that the odds of a drafted player to play >100 games in the NHL was:

1st round: 50%

2nd round: 25%

3rd round: 12%

I can't remember after that.

I have also seen a list of the top 2 picks going back about 15 years and they are more like 90% and the vast majority impact players.

i have heard that late first rounders are more like second rounders.

What I am pretty sure of, but have not seen the data on, is that the higher the rank in the first round the more likely to play a decent NHL career and be and All Star, etc. There are always exceptions, but in the first couple of picks they are rare. Patrik Stefan 1999 was the last bust. About one bust per 10 years with the 1st pick.

Anyways, if anyone knows of stats about that correlation to 1st round draft order and career excellence, it would be interesting.

Edited by remkin

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From Spector's Hockey:

The Flyers are interested in Gleason. Ok we knew that but how about this.

Sounds like Rutherford's creative thinking ... prospects and draft picks. When he needs talent that can produce TODAY, true Top 6 forward(s) that can find the back of the net! Don't we have enough prospects in the organization and the hope of getting another Skinner is like using the NC Lottery as your retirement plan.

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Sounds like Rutherford's creative thinking ... prospects and draft picks. When he needs talent that can produce TODAY, true Top 6 forward(s) that can find the back of the net! Don't we have enough prospects in the organization and the hope of getting another Skinner is like using the NC Lottery as your retirement plan.

Are you telling me I'll never retire! LOL. My guess is he would use the high draft picks to make trades around draft time to get that top 6 forward. Or maybe that is just wishful thinking.

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Are you telling me I'll never retire! LOL. My guess is he would use the high draft picks to make trades around draft time to get that top 6 forward. Or maybe that is just wishful thinking.

Isn't that all the more reason to get something for him then? I just can't believe that trading Ruutu to a contender would make him think less about returning here. He either wants to be here or he doesn't. A trade for a shot at the cup won't change that.

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Sounds like Rutherford's creative thinking ... prospects and draft picks. When he needs talent that can produce TODAY, true Top 6 forward(s) that can find the back of the net! Don't we have enough prospects in the organization and the hope of getting another Skinner is like using the NC Lottery as your retirement plan.

Since all available players 'TODAY' are pending UFA's and we have little to no chance of making the playoffs, never mind not being nowhere good enough to go deep in the playoffs, maybe you can share your own creativity and fill us in on how JR should go about getting those coveted true, top 6 forwards from other teams right now?

.

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Since all available players 'TODAY' are pending UFA's and we have little to no chance of making the playoffs, never mind not being nowhere good enough to go deep in the playoffs, maybe you can share your own creativity and fill us in on how JR should go about getting those coveted true, top 6 forwards from other teams right now?

The only way I could think of would be a trade of prospects/picks for a guy with years on the contract a la Bobby Ryan. Not saying we can do it, but like a McBain, a prospect, and a first round pick? But I really doubt we trade our first rounder, then again, if we traded for another first rounder....

But in general it is a seller's market for what we need until the playoffs are over. Barring the perfect situation, JR will do best to compile picks, then wheel and deal off season when the rentals are free agents.

Further, in a somewhat controversial vein, we really might not even want to be too good too soon, better pick and all that. Get the picks now. Trade later.

We need a top pick, a top 6 contributer (two if we lose Ruutu) and at least one solid defensively responsible veteran defenseman IMHO.

Edited by remkin

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I think we are in an interesting position. We want a top 6 guy but the buyers are not likely to trade off top players who have put them into position for the playoffs and the sellers are not going to take on a rental contract like Ruutu's for a top six forward unless we really sweenten the deal with some prospects/picks. I would think that any package to a selling team would have to be a top guy with an expiring contract like Ruutu, Gleason, Allen plus a top prospect like Boychuk, Sanguinetti, etc. and maybe even a pick. If we make a trade to Philly or any of the teams that are very likely to make the playoffs, it is going to be for picks and prospects.

I hope we can make a deal with teams in the hunt that have a terrible GM...Yes, I am talking to you Gauthier and Regier (although the Sabres appear to be done).

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Since all available players 'TODAY' are pending UFA's and we have little to no chance of making the playoffs, never mind not being nowhere good enough to go deep in the playoffs, maybe you can share your own creativity and fill us in on how JR should go about getting those coveted true, top 6 forwards from other teams right now?

.

First, It seems imperative to identify a target that's still under contract, like a Bobby Ryan, or somebody that is re-signable thru GM to GM pre-trade discussions. Then start marketing a package of assets, leading with defensemen; and not waiting for other GM's to call you. Ryan's GM says he will not consider just picks and prospects; and that's from a "selling" team. JR could be doing this and we would never know unless it's consummated. But IMO his history is often reclamations, works in progress, and/or draft picks. It appears JR can do something with a "buyer" or a "seller" but would take the chance of degrading his draft position by finsihing 9th or 10th. It's just frustrating having a team with cheap ownership after growing up with the Red Wings and BlackHawks.

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Isn't that all the more reason to get something for him then? I just can't believe that trading Ruutu to a contender would make him think less about returning here. He either wants to be here or he doesn't. A trade for a shot at the cup won't change that.

Not sure I agree with your assessment of Ruutu. I don't pretend to know about player's personal feelings but it seems that trading Ruuti would severe any non-business ties (ie: loyalty) to the Canes. If you go along with that presumption, he would be more willing to test free agency and the highest bidder for a top 6 forward, which historically would not be the Canes. I'm not a big believer in rental players returning, other than via trade. And UFA's can be PO'd at management for assuming they can rent them out. The next door neighbor of a UFA rental told me it created a real personal distaste even though it was "business".

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The tough part with getting a guy like Ryan is that a TON of teams are going to make a run at him and there will likely be a serious bidding war to get him. Ryan is a great player but I don't know if he's worth a giving up a significan combination of packs/players/prospects.

We can make deals for the future at the deadline and then make a run at a guy like Grabovski, Kostitsyn or hope of hopes, Parise when the UFA market opens.

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Not sure I agree with your assessment of Ruutu. I don't pretend to know about player's personal feelings but it seems that trading Ruuti would severe any non-business ties (ie: loyalty) to the Canes. If you go along with that presumption, he would be more willing to test free agency and the highest bidder for a top 6 forward, which historically would not be the Canes. I'm not a big believer in rental players returning, other than via trade. And UFA's can be PO'd at management for assuming they can rent them out. The next door neighbor of a UFA rental told me it created a real personal distaste even though it was "business".

I guess I should clarify my position then. I'm not saying just trade the guy and that's it. There needs to be some constant communication with Ruutu to keep him in the loop. Maybe he prefers one contender over another and JR could make that happen. Send him where he wants to go. If he expresses a desire to stay here through the end of the year, then by all means take him off the market.

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The tough part with getting a guy like Ryan is that a TON of teams are going to make a run at him and there will likely be a serious bidding war to get him. Ryan is a great player but I don't know if he's worth a giving up a significan combination of packs/players/prospects.

We can make deals for the future at the deadline and then make a run at a guy like Grabovski, Kostitsyn or hope of hopes, Parise when the UFA market opens.

Yep, I'm afraid you right. Understand Toronto is very interested in Ryan and they seem to be very aggressive when they want a player. Ryan could end-up costing more than Staal but it would be nice to have a young proven scorer.

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Deadline isn't going to reel in a top 6 forward. NHL ready prospects and picks are about all we can expect. We can turn prospects and picks into real players in the offseason if the right deal comes around.

I think we missed out big by not being apart of Chicago's firesale to get under the cap a few years ago. I hope JR doesn't miss the train if another team has to ever firesale.

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Deadline isn't going to reel in a top 6 forward. NHL ready prospects and picks are about all we can expect. We can turn prospects and picks into real players in the offseason if the right deal comes around.

I think we missed out big by not being apart of Chicago's firesale to get under the cap a few years ago. I hope JR doesn't miss the train if another team has to ever firesale.

I agree with you on the trade deadline but I don't want to. If most of the quality forwards are UFA's, prospects and picks won't help us land one or two (assuming we lose Ruutu) in the off-season.

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I completely agree. I also think we've missed out on some other players who have been shopped around in the off-season recently (Versteeg, Liles, etc).

Deadline isn't going to reel in a top 6 forward. NHL ready prospects and picks are about all we can expect. We can turn prospects and picks into real players in the offseason if the right deal comes around.

I think we missed out big by not being apart of Chicago's firesale to get under the cap a few years ago. I hope JR doesn't miss the train if another team has to ever firesale.

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