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model-citizen-1

Va.Tech Senior's views on 4.16.2007

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I do agree with TC, that this has gone on for a long time, but he's made some really good points. 9/11 was talked about for weeks and weeks and is still discussed years later.

As for what MC wrote, I totally agree about the lock down. In my college, with maybe 10k students, in the city of Toronto with a police force of nearly 5000, it would still take a lot of time to do a lock down. There are many corridoors, and hallways and gathering places. Face it, you can't have someone run down the halls going classroom to classroom telling people its lock down. They would be shot. I know they have a PA system but what if the office got shot up and the people killed? If Toronto Police would have trouble locking down 10k, the lock down of 26k by 100 officers wouldn't be possible. Heck we have enough trouble getting the notice out to students that classes have been cancelled due to weather.

As for Cho, again if the teachers inform the students its a breach of privacy, if they kick him out its discrimination, if they do nothing and something bad happens they take heat. They just can't win. We can't take everyone with some sort of mental problem and lock them up for it. In Canada we have something called the Mental Health Act. What this allows police to do is to arrest someone whom they believe is MI and turn him over to a doctor. This individual cannot be held any longer than 3 days usually. Then the doctors must release them. Obviously its different if they done a serious crime.

The media I'm a bit torn on. I can see why they wanted students points of views as it happened to them. What good would it do anyone to hear my thoughts on it all the way up in Toronto? However there really wasn't any sort of cooling off period and it wouldn't surprise me if they just came up and asked questions as opposed to asking if they could ask that person some questions. The media (I believe NBC) also in the wisdom played the confession tape from Cho. I really didn't agree with this. It's giving him what he wants (the spot light) and only encourages others to do it too. The tape at most should have been mentioned on air that it was found and that it was turned over to police. And leave it at that.

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A little under a year ago, a shooter came into Dawson College, my old college, and injured 19 people and killed 1. I knew one person who got shot in the leg and another that got shot in the head and survived.

First off, the only reason more people didn't die was because, luckily, some cops were across the street investigating a drug deal when they heard shots. They rushed right in and cornered the guy, which is actually a new tactic. (in 1980, another shooter went to Montreal Polytechnic, and the police strategy was to establish a perimeter and then wait outside before entering). That new strategy of going right in instead of waiting for backup saved a whole lot of lives. The polytechnic shooting resulted in 14 dead compared to 1 dead at Dawson. I don't know which strategy was used in VT, but it may be something that was again unavoidable since entry into the building was locked from the inside and that obviously delayed any possible surge by the police.

As for locking down the school, that is an EXTREMELY tough subject, because in hindsight, it's very easy to suggest what should have been done. From a completely objective point of view (this is just me), from what they tell me, two people were shot in a dormatory. When you look at how many murders/double murders occur in the US, I don't think it is unreasonable to look at this as an isolated incident. I would never in a million years think that this was the beginning of the worst school shooting in US history.

as for the media coverage, i've already discussed that to great length in another thread.

Also, let me point out that if you want to discuss the situation, i'll be glad to discuss it with you. you don't have to leave it alone if you don't want to.

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Not tryin' to sound mean about the situation. Leave it alone

Leave it alone?

Really... leave it alone... thats funny, I mean I guess its easy for you to say that when you're sitting there all pretty in another state where the media has decided to move on to the next controversial subject. I mean I guess its easy to say that when you don't have to deal with it anymore. Its far away from you, you can just ignore it and it'll go away.

Yea, must be real easy for you to say that. Man, I with I could just leave it alone and it would all go away. Alright, lets see... I'm gonna leave it alone for a few minutes.....

Nope, didn't bring back the 32 lives lost a few weeks back. How unfortunate that your idea didn't work. Guess we can't just sweep this one under the rug and everything will be OK.

"Leave it alone"

unreal

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Here is my take on the subject. This may be a bit lengthy but bear with me...

Obviously, when it was first happened I was shocked. Everyone here was panicking and worrying about friends at VT. One of my fraternity brother's little sister was in the room adjacent to the first victim's. We were relieved to find out she was alright. It does not take a genius to figure out the media completely trivialized this horrible event. There is big difference reporting the news and walking all over people. Example being, asking one of the victim's father, "How did it feel when you found out your daughter was murdered?". Keep in mind, that question came only a day later. Why does the media do this? Because they know you will watch and that's just what everyone did. I've never seen so many students with their eyes glued to the TV and blindly watched in a trance. What makes it worse is the fact that 32 died and within in a day or two later we start hearing about gun laws, mental illness rules. Completely ridiculous. Out of all the "solutions" politicians pose, sadly none of them will work.

First let me say, after the event. I kept hearing, "I hope Cho burns in hell", "If he didn't kill himself, I'd love to watch his execution on TV". Hearing these sorts of things only makes me put my head down. I was the only saying, "I am sorry we failed you". My reasoning, I kept hearing.."There is nothing we could have done to prevent this" "We tried to help, him he refused"..It seems to me, after reading the accounts of those who knew him..People were so quick to help them, yet so easily gave up on him.

The supposed solutions range from stricter gun laws, mental illness laws, and even give students guns! Thats crazy. I can't speak for anyone else, but 9,000 armed, afraid students doesn't make me feel the least bit safe. The problem with all of these ideas is that they are ALL short term solutions and won't solve a damn thing.

Tighter Gun Laws, will obiviously help. From gun advocates, I hear, "He was going to do this anyway regardless of laws! So whats the point of new ones?" Well, if a new law passes, it will help. It makes it that much harder to get a gun. However, the gun advocates are right, no matter how many laws you pass, it's not going to prevent somebody from doing this sort of violence if they really want to. As long as guns are made, some will use them to kill people. Now, I am not posing the question of guns at all..thats a very debate subject and irrelvant to my point. Even so, gun laws will not stop this problem. As I have said, its a short term solution and won't prevent this from happening.

To say, "Nothing could be done to prevent this" is not correct. It happened at the tower in Texas. Then Jonesboro. Then Thurston. Then Columbine. The list goes on and on. Everything could have been done. It's happened over and over again yet we have not taken any real action to stop it...Except pass a gun law or two...yea, and we can see how well that's worked.

The only true solution for this to not happen again is if we as a society change. Cho was still a member of our society and had problems just like everyone else. Yet for some reason, we Americans has a view bad way of dealing this those problems. Basically, "I've got my problems. You got yours. I'll deal with mine and you deal with yours. If you fail solving your problems, too bad, your not me. It's your fault." I have no idea why things are not this way. Just because friends talk with others about problems, does always mean they are solved. We need to investigate deeper. Look at Cho. "This kid has problems, send him to the mental ward and make the problem go away." Granted, he refused help but still that is not a reason to quit on him. Regardless of laws, it is not illegal to talk to others. Please keep in mind, I am not attempting to show sympathy for his actions, because they were horrible. I simply trying to find the answers as to why these things happen. Like I said, he was a person in our society whether others like it or not. Cho was obviously suffering, we all are. Suffering in does an individual thing like I said before. His suffering is your suffering as well. It sounds like a monumental task to completely change our society's ways, but in my opinion that's the only way to prevent these tragedies from happen. Even if you see a stranger down on his/her luck. Talk to that person, help them. If you disagree with my view point with "That will never never never happen, it's not gonna change a thing. These shootings will probably happen again" Your absolutely correct then, they will.

Phew that was long.

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Not tryin' to sound mean about the situation. Leave it alone

Leave it alone?

Really... leave it alone... thats funny, I mean I guess its easy for you to say that when you're sitting there all pretty in another state where the media has decided to move on to the next controversial subject. I mean I guess its easy to say that when you don't have to deal with it anymore. Its far away from you, you can just ignore it and it'll go away.

Yea, must be real easy for you to say that. Man, I with I could just leave it alone and it would all go away. Alright, lets see... I'm gonna leave it alone for a few minutes.....

Nope, didn't bring back the 32 lives lost a few weeks back. How unfortunate that your idea didn't work. Guess we can't just sweep this one under the rug and everything will be OK.

"Leave it alone"

unreal

So I guess complaining about it on a hockey forum did bring the lives back? Or thanks to you the blacksburg police have instilled an entirely new strategy to fight this. Wanna do something? write a letter to someone who can do something not to a hockey forum and then get pissed when someone says this aint the place for it.

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First let me say, after the event. I kept hearing, "I hope Cho burns in hell", "If he didn't kill himself, I'd love to watch his execution on TV". Hearing these sorts of things only makes me put my head down. I was the only saying, "I am sorry we failed you". My reasoning, I kept hearing.."There is nothing we could have done to prevent this" "We tried to help, him he refused"..It seems to me, after reading the accounts of those who knew him..People were so quick to help them, yet so easily gave up on him.

There really was nothing that could have been done to prevent this. Period. We did not give up on him, we gave him every single route to help himself, yet he did nothing. You cannot help someone that does not want to be helped. You cannot force help onto someone, not the way the laws are set up.

No, we did not give up on him. We knew he had a problem and we tried time and time and time again to help him, he just never took responsibility for himself. Instead of helping himself out of his misery, he focused on the misery to the point where he thought his problems were more important than the lives of every single student at Virginia Tech.

The only way this could have been prevented is not through gun laws. Although, that being said, it should be law nationwide that no person with mental problems should be allowed to own a gun. No, the only way this could have been changed is if the law was changed so that we could commit this kid to a psych ward permanently (or until he was better)... but that will never happen, so the possibility of this happening again somewhere else is always there....

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There really was nothing that could have been done to prevent this. Period. We did not give up on him, we gave him every single route to help himself, yet he did nothing. You cannot help someone that does not want to be helped. You cannot force help onto someone, not the way the laws are set up.

No, we did not give up on him. We knew he had a problem and we tried time and time and time again to help him, he just never took responsibility for himself. Instead of helping himself out of his misery, he focused on the misery to the point where he thought his problems were more important than the lives of every single student at Virginia Tech.

The only way this could have been prevented is not through gun laws. Although, that being said, it should be law nationwide that no person with mental problems should be allowed to own a gun. No, the only way this could have been changed is if the law was changed so that we could commit this kid to a psych ward permanently (or until he was better)... but that will never happen, so the possibility of this happening again somewhere else is always there....

That's I am talking about, "but that will never happen, so the possibility of this happening again somewhere else is always there...." if you truly have this mentality, this this sort of violence will never stop. It does not seem acceptable to me to simply sit back and wait for it, so we can glue our eyes to the TV again. As I have said earlier, simple solutions yield simple results. Just logically, to go on the defensive and say "Nothing coulda been done. We tried". It's more trying to defend themselves from blame rather than trying to prevent actions like Cho's from happening again. Because of this, we always shift the issue back to Cho. He and He only was the only one who could have prevented this. I think the Somewhere down the line, something happened to him that caused him to go progress on a downward spiral. And yes, people did quit him. He was booted from one of his classes for his writing. That right there is a perfect example of his suffering. Simply throwing him to somebody else didn't help, it only enhanced the problem. He was given a million chances, and a million times he turned it down. Therefore, somewhere we have failed him. We did not truly understand how much suffering this guy him in. We have to look at the larger scope. Society must change as a whole if you really want this to stop. Playing the blame game and attempting to shift the focus, "it's not our fault, we tried". No, it was just as much as my fault and everyone else's. We all failed him. Placing him in a mental ward and locking him up...well obviously he couldn't done what he did. But it doesn't mean somebody, somewhere wanted commit the same crime. So it wouldnt really solve anything. Simply locking him up in a padded room doesn't help. Like said, "we have a problem. Kid is crazy. Put in mental ward. Solve problem. Just get it out of our hair." That is basically what happened. Bouncing the problem around wont solve a thing.

There is no point to really discuss Cho now that I think about it. He no longer living and it cannot change a thing. We can only look to the future to solve it. People have got to realize that we, as people, are one. Example, look at yourself. You and I, we have never met, but in a way we are connected. Your problems are my problems as well. If you are suffering, I am suffering. We all are. Until this basic concept is enlightened, violence, greed, lust, and desire will always happen. Only then can society advance.

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So I guess complaining about it on a hockey forum did bring the lives back? Or thanks to you the blacksburg police have instilled an entirely new strategy to fight this. Wanna do something? write a letter to someone who can do something not to a hockey forum and then get pissed when someone says this aint the place for it.

With all due respect, this is the Off Topic forum. So he can discuss this here if he wants to....had he posted this in any of the other hockey forums, you'd have a point.

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to caneshockeyguy,

your ideas are very noble, and I appreciate your desire to stop this type of violence, but...

your idea of "society" failing the shooter is a little over the top for me. people are so quick to talk about the effects that "society" has on individuals, but nobody can tell me how society makes conscious decisions. It doesn't. society is made up of individuals, and it is waaaay too much to ask individuals to take it upon themselves to help save potentially dangerous strangers unless it happens to be their job (like police, or hospital personnel).

also, I think you are underestimating the affect that mental illness has on a person. People like that are in a completely altered state. Merely talking to them doesn't do all that much until you stabilize the chemical imbalances in their body. My mother suffered from depression and psychosis, and believe me, trying to "talk" them out of their illness is futile. I would talk to her, and she'd be gazing blankly across the room. So I'm not sure how much talking would help these kinds of people. people who are that far into mental illness need medication to get their body back to normal.

And also, can you imagine if a "disturbing" essay was enough to predict that someone was going to go on a murderous rampage? Half of hollywood would be institutionalized. As easy as it is now to say it was a clue, there is ABSOLUTELY no way to justify reporting someone like that based solely on his version of creative writing. just thinking of the lawsuits makes me cringe. I'm no law expert but i could go out on a limb and say that you cannot force anyone to get help based on something they wrote. that is why it is "impossible" to prevent these things, because your 1st ammendment upholds freedom of speech, and you cannot detain anyone, for writing a disturbing story.

you can "talk" to these people all you want though...i just personally don't think "talking" means much to someone who is mentally ill.

I don't think it's about shifting blame. If you feel that you are able to distinguish between who's a potential murderer and who isn't, well you should let everyone know your secret. Because i've encountered countless other people who probably said and wrote even worse things than he did.

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to caneshockeyguy,

your ideas are very noble, and I appreciate your desire to stop this type of violence, but...

your idea of "society" failing the shooter is a little over the top for me. people are so quick to talk about the effects that "society" has on individuals, but nobody can tell me how society makes conscious decisions. It doesn't. society is made up of individuals, and it is waaaay too much to ask individuals to take it upon themselves to help save potentially dangerous strangers unless it happens to be their job (like police, or hospital personnel).

also, I think you are underestimating the affect that mental illness has on a person. People like that are in a completely altered state. Merely talking to them doesn't do all that much until you stabilize the chemical imbalances in their body. My mother suffered from depression and psychosis, and believe me, trying to "talk" them out of their illness is futile. I would talk to her, and she'd be gazing blankly across the room. So I'm not sure how much talking would help these kinds of people. people who are that far into mental illness need medication to get their body back to normal.

And also, can you imagine if a "disturbing" essay was enough to predict that someone was going to go on a murderous rampage? Half of hollywood would be institutionalized. As easy as it is now to say it was a clue, there is ABSOLUTELY no way to justify reporting someone like that based solely on his version of creative writing. just thinking of the lawsuits makes me cringe. I'm no law expert but i could go out on a limb and say that you cannot force anyone to get help based on something they wrote. that is why it is "impossible" to prevent these things, because your 1st ammendment upholds freedom of speech, and you cannot detain anyone, for writing a disturbing story.

you can "talk" to these people all you want though...i just personally don't think "talking" means much to someone who is mentally ill.

I don't think it's about shifting blame. If you feel that you are able to distinguish between who's a potential murderer and who isn't, well you should let everyone know your secret. Because i've encountered countless other people who probably said and wrote even worse things than he did.

cousin jeffrey, I see your view point but I disagree. Sadly, I am one of those people who do not get their views off right. Meaning, the thoughts in my head not come out as they should. My fingers type faster than my brain. Perhaps I will attempt to do it here. You have said:

"people are so quick to talk about the effects that "society" has on individuals, but nobody can tell me how society makes conscious decisions. It doesn't. society is made up of individuals, and it is waaaay too much to ask individuals to take it upon themselves to help save potentially dangerous strangers unless it happens to be their job "

You are missing my point. In my view, there are no "individuals". Meaning, there is no difference between you, cousin jeffrey and I ..we are one..EVERYTHING that affects you, will ultimately affect me in someway..Example, suppose you cut down a tree that is inhabited by bees. They travel through tree to tree, until they my home in VA Beach. Therefore, we are connected in that sense. It is just like people, everything they do well ultimately affect you in some way.

My example of "talking" was a bad example. I very sorry to read about your family who suffers from this. However, when we see guys, Cho, Eric, and Dylan, we believe "oh my god, they killed so many people, something mental was wrong, nobody in their right mind would do this". That is a very basic misconception about all of this. In hindsight, people make these claims. They are wrong. They were normal just as you and I. Something happened in their lives produced these violent thought in their minds. Not birth defects. I had studied the Columbine case for years, they were NO different. They may have raised red flags, yet nobody did anything. Those guys never suffered from any mental illness at birth, therefore EVERY violent feeling they had was produced by our society. Like I said, "society" encompasses everything. Our life, your life and my life.

"As easy as it is now to say it was a clue, there is ABSOLUTELY no way to justify reporting someone like that based solely on his version of creative writing."

Dylan Klebold writes an paper about killing "jocks, preppies" He goes along with Eric Harris to murder others at Columbine High School. If you want to read it for yourself you can find it here (http://acolumbinesite.com/dylan/manson.html). Everything we do matters upon all of us. We are failing to realize the larger scope. That it in itself is a red flag.

In your last paragraph, you mention movies and celebrities with movies. Well it all fits into it. If you can sit through a movie and people die, IE The Departed/Terminator It only reinforces my argument.Yea, its only a movie and stuff, but there is a larger picture here. I am not saying violence in movies is the problem. However, its only reinforcing the fact how our lifestyle has become intertwined with violence. If you can sit and watch people be get killed fictionally , then we have failed. Violence is not a subject to to entertained. However, when we sit through movies...How is it entertainment to watch others die? Meaning, even though it is fiction we can still watch. Regardless if its real or fiction. Nobody laughs if they see Nick Berg being decapitated do they? Our world in America is so entranced with violence is really makes me sad.

We are all one. There is no "you" or "me". Everyone looks themselves to seperate. "It's not my fault for VA Tech"...We are all responsible. To me it's a basic realization. until you see someone in distress, sending them to new teachers or mental wards, like Cho..wont solve anything. Dont get me wrong, doctors at mental wards have a job for a reason..However, it didn't work. Cho refused. We failed. And we all saw the results of it.

From Model Citizen and cousin jeffrey, this is my view. You must realize that there NO difference among people. The people you see on campus, regardless if you know them, they are YOU. Their pain is your pain. We are suffering. It is a very hard assignment to realize this. But it is true. Whether you like it or not. Like I said, I am very bad at make my thoughts from my head into typing fingers is not good, but I will do it the best I can. From both of your opinions they express saying Cho himself was completely responsible. That is wrong. The mental ward failed, the campus security failed. No, this not the problem. We are the problem. When are say "we", I mean it compasses everything. Let me put it this way, Model Citizen and cousin, are you with Cho, regardless if he no longer breathing...he is a part of you...everything in his life has affected you in some way, even before the shooting.

Point blank, if you have a the mind of focus on Cho and actions. You never solve anything. Mental illness is a very tough topic, however...Eric, Dylan, and Cho himself mental illness is futile. They were all born into this world, they faced problems in life and faced them in the most horrific manner. Point being, if they did not encounter their problems in the first place, it would have never have happened. Like I said many times, if you have the mentality school shootings happening, then they will always happen. Until people realize this, it happen again and again

Bottom Line. If you keep feeling that "nothing could have been done to prevent this" These violent actions will never stop because it's happened over and over again

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very long entry

Your problem, much like the problem with the media over the course of the past month or so, is that you're trying to place blame where it doesn't need to be placed. Your ideas are basically like trying to turn society into the novel 1984.

No, there was one person and one person only to blame for what happened on April 16th, and that guy put his gun to his own head....

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Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree on a fundemental issue. We are not all one as nice as it might be to think so. I think you're getting a little too philisophical for reality. That bee analogy fails to point out one thing. there is only a small circle that feels the effects of an event, and as you get further and further away from the key people, the effect is diminished. Maybe a bomb analogy is in order. The most affected are the ones who are closest...and as you get further away, the impact is diminished until it is completely gone. In this case, the people most affected are the families of the victims, the student body, the local residents, and then maybe the people across the continent who have been following the story through the media (and they are already starting to move on). So we are not ALL affected and none of us are affected in the same way, so we are NOT all one.

Note that every point I make from this point is based on my opinion that we are all individuals, not one...so I get the feeling you might not agree with anything here.

I didn't mean to imply that these guys were mentally ill from birth and that they were like that their entire life. I've been told from psychiatrists that often (not always), mentall illness is part of someone's genetic makeup but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will suffer from it. Usually, it takes a series of events that will trigger the changes in the person's brain. So, yes, their environment does determine whether mental illness will take over to a certain extent. but it is too much to ask for people to somehow help someone they don't even know who might be dangerous. I like to think i'm a caring individual, but I put my interests and my families interest before any one else's. I can completely understand why someone would rather try to avoid dangerous people than try to help them. Of course you take a gamble hoping that this person doesn't end up following through. And as bad as this tragedy was, let's not forget how rare these occurences are. I think people trained in this matter are doing the best that they can, and I put my trust in these people to do their job...but nothing is 100% perfect.

And like I said before, you can only do what the law allows. dylan's writings might have been redflags, but the law doesn't say that stories translates into "direct threats". so the authorities have their hands tied. And that law will never change because it will open a whole new can of worms involving the 1st ammendment.

As for violent movies, it comes down to parenting and education.

But i agree with you on this: I don't think violence will ever disappear.

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very long entry

Your problem, much like the problem with the media over the course of the past month or so, is that you're trying to place blame where it doesn't need to be placed. Your ideas are basically like trying to turn society into the novel 1984.

No, there was one person and one person only to blame for what happened on April 16th, and that guy put his gun to his own head....

I disagree. This individual hated the world. I am blaming no one, all am I saying is that we failed. We can see that because of what he did. The media has trivialized this entire ordeal by trampling on people who are already grieving and only making the problem worse. If you are angry and sad because of what happened, then what you are feeling is exactly what Cho wanted you too. If you solely blame him for this then it does not help. I am not denying his was the shooter. Everyone nows that and yes only he is responsible for that. I am not questioning that. I am questioning the reasons behind it. It only narrows into one view and leaves no one to ask questions as to why these events happen. He wasn't locked in a room in entire life and conger up thoughts of violence out of thin air. Something obviously happened in his that produced this feelings he possessed. His interactions with people went sour. His relationship with the world went sour. This should not happen. He planted violent seeds and that's what he reaped. Because his actions it's caused others to feel the same anger he had against society. So it doesn't really do anything to point fingers and say this guy, it was him and alone, nobody just him. Or Gun Laws. Or Mental Laws. Or the media. Or the tsunami of 2004. Blaming direct objects, people or places does not advance us. When we do this, we think the issue is solved and there is more to be done. It turns a blind eye to kids who are feeling the same thing Cho did and these events will occur over and over again. So, why aren't we doing anything about it?

I really enjoyed this quote when I read it.

"I can't imagine what pain and suffering these victims as well as their family and friends are going throw right now. May the victims come to one day forgive this man for their own peace of mind and happiness because as we know-hate begets hate, anger begets anger, revenge begets revenge and violence begets violence." - James Ure

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very long entry

Your problem, much like the problem with the media over the course of the past month or so, is that you're trying to place blame where it doesn't need to be placed. Your ideas are basically like trying to turn society into the novel 1984.

No, there was one person and one person only to blame for what happened on April 16th, and that guy put his gun to his own head....

I disagree. This individual hated the world. I am blaming no one, all am I saying is that we failed. We can see that because of what he did. The media has trivialized this entire ordeal by trampling on people who are already grieving and only making the problem worse. If you are angry and sad because of what happened, then what you are feeling is exactly what Cho wanted you too. If you solely blame him for this then it does not help. I am not denying his was the shooter. Everyone nows that and yes only he is responsible for that. I am not questioning that. I am questioning the reasons behind it. It only narrows into one view and leaves no one to ask questions as to why these events happen. He wasn't locked in a room in entire life and conger up thoughts of violence out of thin air. Something obviously happened in his that produced this feelings he possessed. His interactions with people went sour. His relationship with the world went sour. This should not happen. He planted violent seeds and that's what he reaped. Because his actions it's caused others to feel the same anger he had against society. So it doesn't really do anything to point fingers and say this guy, it was him and alone, nobody just him. Or Gun Laws. Or Mental Laws. Or the media. Or the tsunami of 2004. Blaming direct objects, people or places does not advance us. When we do this, we think the issue is solved and there is more to be done. It turns a blind eye to kids who are feeling the same thing Cho did and these events will occur over and over again. So, why aren't we doing anything about it?

I really enjoyed this quote when I read it.

"I can't imagine what pain and suffering these victims as well as their family and friends are going throw right now. May the victims come to one day forgive this man for their own peace of mind and happiness because as we know-hate begets hate, anger begets anger, revenge begets revenge and violence begets violence." - James Ure

You sure as hell are blaming people. You're blaming society for not being there for him. You're blaming everyone who associated with him on a daily basis for failing him. You're blaming the professors, the teachers, and the students for not getting him help when help was needed.

No, this was not society's fault. This guy could not be helped. I don't know why you can't see this, maybe you're just one of those radical religious people who think everyone can be saved if you just show them enough compassion, but thats just not true. This guy was given every single chance possible to help himself, and he denied it at every single opportunity. When that happens, there is nothing you can do. Period. You can argue this till you're blue in the face, but all you're doing is saying we should become a society in which the thoughts and actions of something you might do become punishable by law and requires psychiatric help. I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a world where if you don't write or say the right things, you're thrown into a psych ward.

There is only one person to blame for this and it is Cho himself. He was so wrapped up in his own self pity and hatred for the world in his own messed up head that he felt like the only way out of it would be to kill his fellow students. Yes, the warning signs were there, yes, we knew he had the chance to do something like this, yes, we tried to help him out, but in the end, it was his own choices to not follow through with the help that is to blame. You can't blame Virginia Tech for this, we did all we could. You can't blame the fellow students, we did all we could. You can't blame society, it is what it is. You can't blame the police, they were following up on their only lead (which brought them to a subject... was just the wrong guy). In the end, the only thing that could have prevented this is if Cho decided to take the help that was offered to him time and time again, but he didn't, and thus 32 of my fellow students and professors were killed. There is nothing more that can be said.

And yes, I fully expect you to take one sentence out of this whole passage and try to prove a point off of that, it really is all you have been doing to begin with.

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You are still not hearing what I am saying to you.

You are so intertwined with the actions of Cho you leave absolutely no from for listening. I am simply saying we failed. That's it, bottom line. We are failing right now, this minute, this second. It seems to me you think I am blaming this on everyone else, except the actual gunman, as if too say I am intentionally singling out your school. This is not true, so stop assuming it. When I said society, I meant very single little ascept of it. Everything. That is the key difference between you and I. You think everything could have been done, I believe not enough was done. Hell for all we know, he could have been harboring these violent feelings even before his arrival at Tech. Not by the school at VT, but by society in general. I am looking at larger picture, larger than Tech, Columbine, Thurtson. Larger than all. I am looking at violence in a whole and society's part in it. That is where you are failing to understand me. This is pointless becoming a argument that is going around in circles.

He only bought the gun and took thirty-two innocent lives. He alone did that. I am not a religious zealot, I do even believe it in in the first place. If you truely think Cho is the only one responsible for this, fine. Go ahead. His actions are a result of the violent world we live in, not just himself. Did not harbor any anger or violent thoughts after you discovered what happened? Violence is a disease.It is everywhere and spreads like the plague. If you sit and focus only Cho, he and he alone, this violence will continue to happen in schools, street corners, homes, businesses whatnot. It will not stop, until people come to the realization that it must stop. It's as simple as that. The general response I am getting is that would never happen, because would rather be individuals. Ok, so be it. Turn on your TV and click on news and wait for the next one.

Hell it happened in from my dorm window this last semester when a man chased down a campus security officer and slit his throat, stomach, and legs. How is it any different? The fact is people are dying and yet no seems to do anything to stop it. What happened afterwards? Not a damn thing. Nothing ever was done to possibly prevent something like this from happening again. I live right next to the ghetto in Virgina Beach, so it's a serious possibility it could happen again. However, I did not lay back and complete blame to this killer. The ghetto he lives, brought him up in a world of violence, and then he did it himself. It is full of gangs and on some day nights I can hear gunfire, from shootings. I have been here for over three years and at least five people a month die from this senseless violence. That is a good example to me. I thought to myself how a person ever think of doing such a thing? Then I turn on the TV and simply see nothing about the latest murder on the street corner or the explosions in a Iraq. It's treating violence like it's pure entrainment and people do not understand the fact people truly are dying. That is why you feel the way you do about the media. That is problem with the world we live in. Therefore, society has failed him, you, me and Backwards Joe playing in his banjo on a Mississippi porch.

Nonetheless, as I stated earlier the only thing we are starting to do is go around in circles with this. I am not going to turn a debate into an argument because that is where this is heading. You have your views, I have mine. It's that simple.

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