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legend-1

Jeff Skinner suspended 2 games for kicking Nichols

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I'm saying if the refs calls the penalty he should have, he wouldn't have blown the play dead because puck possesion hadn't changed and Skinner still would have tried to operate on Nicholes thigh with his skate. It would still happen. This is not an acceptable hockey play no matter how you look at it so quit trying to make it ok.

I never said that I wanted the refs to call the boarding penalty, I said that the boarding should've also received discipline. I'm also not trying to make it okay, of course something like this isn't okay, but the handling of it by Shanny and his staff is embarrassing. Read my posts and you'll understand the point I was making, which I'll make again here:

You have Nichol boarding Skinner, who is the obviously hurt on the play and makes the stupid, wrong decision to kick Nichol with his skate blade, which is a no-no and an instant suspension regardless of if it was intentional or not. If Nichol hadn't of boarded Skinner and instead just pinned him to the boards like what is to be expected, this simply would not have happened. Therefore, it's logical to assess that Nichol's illegal boarding play should be taken into account instead of being disregarded, which would then in turn make it logical to suspend or fine Nichol as well as suspend Skinner and illogical to do only one of the two or neither.

Do you get my point now?

Edit: Seems you did since you edited your post right before I quoted it. I'm not trying to argue that what Skinner did was okay, it's quite clearly not and he was quite clearly in the wrong by doing so, but ignoring what put him into that situation in the first place is just flat out ignorance by Shanny and is what I'm upset about.

Edited by Blinding

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Yikes, I saw this thread title and thought we either had a troll or one of you was crazy bored and playing a joke. :o

Looking at the video, it was a dangerous kick and looked suspension worthy to me. If a player on another team kicked his skate blade at one of our players, I'm sure most of us would be calling for some action by the league. 1 game may have been enough for that offense imo but I guess I can understand 2 if there's been previous warnings made to him. I love Skinner's game but he plays with an edge that can cross the line at times. I tend to overlook or justify it because of the beatings he takes most nights but he's going to have to learn how to keep himself in check on the ice.

That said.... this could be the wake up call this team needs to get them to protect each other on the ice. They do stand up for each other but how many times does an opposing player who takes a cheap shot on our players ever really made to pay a price for it? There's usually someone who jumps in to mix it up and lots of pushing and shoving but never a clear message sent. Can you imagine if we were in a playoff race and lost Skinner over a bad choice he made out of anger or worse, because he was injured by some head hunter looking to take him out of the game?

I'm probably one of the few that doesn't like the bare knuckle fighting in the NHL just for the sport of it (like the staged fights), but I'm all for making opposing players that take liberties on our players pay a big enough price that they'll think good and hard before they cheap shot a Hurricane again.

Edited by TSA

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Definitely agree that Skinner's actions were worthy of 2 games. He needs to quit acting like a little kid out there. I'm a big fan of Skinner but it's starting to get a little ridiculous, this is the NHL. At the same time though, I do agree with those that say he is getting a pounding and no one is sticking up for him. JR needs to find Skinner a rough and tumble type center with skills via trade. First he needs Rod, Glen Wesley, and Ronnie Franchise to have a sit down with Skinner though.

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I never said that I wanted the refs to call the boarding penalty, I said that the boarding should've also received discipline. I'm also not trying to make it okay, of course something like this isn't okay, but the handling of it by Shanny and his staff is embarrassing. Read my posts and you'll understand the point I was making, which I'll make again here:

You have Nichol boarding Skinner, who is the obviously hurt on the play and makes the stupid, wrong decision to kick Nichol with his skate blade, which is a no-no and an instant suspension regardless of if it was intentional or not. If Nichol hadn't of boarded Skinner and instead just pinned him to the boards like what is to be expected, this simply would not have happened. Therefore, it's logical to assess that Nichol's illegal boarding play should be taken into account instead of being disregarded, which would then in turn make it logical to suspend or fine Nichol as well as suspend Skinner and illogical to do only one of the two or neither.

Do you get my point now?

Edit: Seems you did since you edited your post right before I quoted it. I'm not trying to argue that what Skinner did was okay, it's quite clearly not and he was quite clearly in the wrong by doing so, but ignoring what put him into that situation in the first place is just flat out ignorance by Shanny and is what I'm upset about.

Yea I didn't like how I originally worded it but I agree in the end.

I think this is good anyway, we're not in playoff contention and we need his temper in check. He's been going off the handle on everything for months. This could be the ticket in a non-harmful way to our team in the long run.

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If Skinner was warned about slew-footing recently, he needed to take a clue that they were watching him.

Kicking with the skate blade is never acceptable. Period.

Now, with the fine, suspension and the surrounding publicity----perhaps Canes management, including

the coaches, will hear him out, work with him to address his frustrations, provide him some support for

the cheap shots, discourage the embellishment, and teach him to pick his battles. He is, after all, only

19-----a teenager--------lots to learn, folks !!

Does no good to blame the refs, the NHL, etc----because this is all out of our control. It has to be worked through

internally, and it will be. Just my $.02.

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I think this is good anyway, we're not in playoff contention and we need his temper in check. He's been going off the handle on everything for months. This could be the ticket in a non-harmful way to our team in the long run.

Oh definitely, he needs to learn that not every call is going to be made and that when you start chewing refs out about it the chances of them calling things in your favor goes down even lower, so this could definitely be a good thing in making him adjust his behavior. But having someone that will always stick up for him no matter what will help things as well.

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I agree with this punishment. We've all seen what happens when a skate cuts someone by accident. (See Cam Ward a season or two ago cut across his leg and Florida Panthers Richard Zednik cut in throat) Skinner should consider himself lucky that he did not cause anyone injury.

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Hey all, Blues fan here. I just saw the news on NHL.com and initially couldn't think of what play involving Skinner was suspendable. I agree with most of your statements, especially that a kick like that is completely unacceptable. Again, if a Blue had kicked Skinner like that, I'd expect a well-deserved suspension.

I also agree the hit immediately before that was also very questionable. There were a lot of non-calls that happened that game; for both sides. I was surprised how chippy the game got (considering we don't play you guys all that often) and how little the refs called.

The other thing I completely agree with is how inconsistent Shanny is in his suspensions. It's painfully obvious he favors a select number of teams, and dislikes a number of other teams. We've had our fair share of questionable suspensions, and non-suspensions made against us. Hopefully things get better next year, but I'm not holding my breath.

Hopefully this will be a learning experience for your young superstar. I don't really follow the Canes, but it sounds like this has been a rough season for the youngster. He's a great player, and if he has some protection, and plays within his game, he can be a very dangerous player for a long time.

Anyway, good luck the rest of the year!

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Hey all, Blues fan here. I just saw the news on NHL.com and initially couldn't think of what play involving Skinner was suspendable. I agree with most of your statements, especially that a kick like that is completely unacceptable. Again, if a Blue had kicked Skinner like that, I'd expect a well-deserved suspension.

I also agree the hit immediately before that was also very questionable. There were a lot of non-calls that happened that game; for both sides. I was surprised how chippy the game got (considering we don't play you guys all that often) and how little the refs called.

The other thing I completely agree with is how inconsistent Shanny is in his suspensions. It's painfully obvious he favors a select number of teams, and dislikes a number of other teams. We've had our fair share of questionable suspensions, and non-suspensions made against us. Hopefully things get better next year, but I'm not holding my breath.

Hopefully this will be a learning experience for your young superstar. I don't really follow the Canes, but it sounds like this has been a rough season for the youngster. He's a great player, and if he has some protection, and plays within his game, he can be a very dangerous player for a long time.

Anyway, good luck the rest of the year!

I really appreciate the non-bias post and welcome to our boards!

I agree Shanny needs to get it together, things we're bad with the Colin Campbell but he has done nothing in terms of gaining respect back to our sport. It's one way one night and another way the next night. Same as Colin, cept if it was a suspension the Bruins it went unnoticed.

I think Skinner deserves his bench time, I also think it'll set him straight he's a good kid he's not a "injure your guy" type of player. He's having a tough sophmore year learning the ropes and learning how to play off natural talent rather then adrenaline. It'll be interesting to see how he progresses.

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Can't fault Shanny for this ruling...it's pretty black and white.

That being said...when in the hell are we gonna catch a break with the officials?

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I've had some time to get over the initial reaction, and I agree Skinner is in the wrong here... but 2 games still seems like a bit much for a non-offender with no injury resulted. You can bring up the warning for argument, but a warning is just a warning. If he was slew footing people, he'd be fined for it... but he wasn't fined, so how can that be rolled up in the kicking incident for additional punishment?

He's 19 years old, he still has some growing up to do. Muller is the perfect coach to have in this situation - being a former forward. I'm not worried about his growth... but the officials will be harder on him and will give him a reputation - warranted or not. They don't care if they are in the right or not... as we have seen clearly the last few seasons, they will make an impact on the game as they see fit because there are no ramifications from their employer for doing so. If they don't like you, they'll find a way to hurt you and your team... just like Stephane Auger did in Vancouver, like Brad Watson did to Carolina, etc.

I've got two points with the enforcer talk: you can say we are in need of more players getting in the faces of the opposition more often - to keep stuff like what's going on with Skinner at a minimum. However, that wont happen as long as JR gets good-character players because they are less likely to get in scraps with other players. It's a problem of attitude, we only have two guys who will even fight on a semi-regular basis (Gleason - an alternate captain and Ruutu - a top line winger) and they are too important to miss five minutes every time someone tries to hurt Skinner. JR doesn't go after tough guys because he doesn't want their baggage, I believe.

Carolina has been one of the least-penalized teams in the league for several seasons. Even though the Canes' power play has been terrible since 2006, having that kind of advantage over the rest of the league can be very important when the power play is good. It's good now... and hopefully it will be next year. If the Canes start getting more chippy, being more physically aggressive and fighting more, that advantage will disappear.

It's a tough situation. Would you trade more time in the box for less shots at our talent, or would you rather see our guys get man-handled and have more man-advantage opportunities? Personally, I'd rather have the power plays, because that in it self can be enough of a deterrent, knowing that the Canes could hurt them as result (but that hinges on a solid power play).

Just food for thought.

Edited by jb_online

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I haven't liked the way Skinner has taken some bad retaliation penalties this year, and he seems to be chirping at the refs a lot this year. Some people noted a not so positive reaction from Ruutu over not recieving the pass last game. Could it be by not "standing up" for Skinner, that his mates are sending a message. I like Skinner, but a lot of his penalties are in the offensive zone, and are of the selfish variety. Refs are human, and if someone is complaining all the time, they might "miss" a few calls against that player.There are a lot of ways to express frutration,but kicking is about the worst. I think he got off lightly.

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Holy Cow. I wake up and see this, and like TSA wonder if it is a prank. This really surprised me. This board is so dead lately (probably due to the lousy season), yet ya'll found a reason to blow it up -- during the Duke loss even!

Skins deserved something. A harder slice of the blade high on a thigh in just the right place and you're talking massive almost Zednick style bleeding. Them's the anatomical facts.

Something has to change. Skin's has to change, the team has to stick up for him, and the coaches need to help.

Speaking of which: besides the concussion, do you think Skin's demeanor has changed after Muller came on board?

Edited by wxray1

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Hey all, Blues fan here. .....

The other thing I completely agree with is how inconsistent Shanny is in his suspensions.

Welcome SuperStubbs, the Blues were the first team I followed years ago. Yeah, let me tackle the suspension from another angle...there's been lots of good posts/discussion so far. The push off by Skinner was reckless but not retaliatory. One big indication of this is when Skinner got up, he didnt go after Nichols. He got up, sort of made sure he had all his marbles for a moment, and he went right back to playing hockey. That this was a "Skinner losing his temper moment," I disagree.

So, we have reckless "kick" or push off with the skate, no injury, and no history. Let us compare this to a reckless high stick. There are numerous incidents where a high stick has caused gruesome injury to the soft flesh of the face and neck of opposing players. The thin, fast moving stick blade is a formidable slicing tool when used in a reckless manner. Players have been blinded and careers shortened or ended as a result. Yet I struggle to think of a suspension for reckless stick use in similar circumstances to Skinner's skate (i.e., no injury, no history).

I'm not saying reckless use of a high stick is worse than the skate, but it's hard to say it's a lot better either.

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Definitely agree that Skinner's actions were worthy of 2 games. He needs to quit acting like a little kid out there. I'm a big fan of Skinner but it's starting to get a little ridiculous, this is the NHL. At the same time though, I do agree with those that say he is getting a pounding and no one is sticking up for him. JR needs to find Skinner a rough and tumble type center with skills via trade. First he needs Rod, Glen Wesley, and Ronnie Franchise to have a sit down with Skinner though.

+1 and thanks for posting my exact thoughts on this, except for finding a "rough and tumble" center.

He needs protection, but mostly needs to protect himself. He also needs to keep his head up. This is the NHL and he has to be accountable, not forgiven or understood because he's "only" 19. That includes verbally addressing the Refs (he also recently had a 10 minute misconduct).

I don't want a protector on his line if it will further his recent on-ice behavior. Best that he gets the "focus on hockey" advice from our organization's leadership. Once that is resolved, I'd put that "rough and tumble" player on his line. Even without all the stuff regarding his post-concussion behavior, IMO the rough and tumble player would open more ice for him, and Jussi, as a solid hockey move. See Malone/Tampa.

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Not sure who I agree with - fuse is short, but Skinner is a target, which everyone expected. So he sits a couple of games, which could be too long, or could have been a lot worse, but gives some time to cool off.

Not sure, but this may be longer effects post concussion. Definitely he doesn't want another hit that puts him out, but like many of us wants to do his job no matter what.

We're going to get to a long break in a few weeks (longer than we all want). I think the down time after the season will go a long way to settle him down, so I look for a more controlled game play next year, at least to start.

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It was a bad move on Skinner's part and a legit call by Shanny. On the flip side, the officiating this year has been horrendous and shows no sign of getting better. The bad officiating could legitamately be a contributing factor, but that is something you have to learn to deal with as an NHL player. I do hope what Skinner has been going through this year prompts the Canes to acquire a true enforcer or other players are encouraged to step up and protect Skinner. He does seem to have a target on his back.

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After looking at the video again, I'd say Skinner PUSHED the player away with his skate rather than KICKING him. To me pushing would mean not using force until the hand or foot was already in contact with the object to be moved. Kicking, OTOH, would involve the hand or foot in motion prior to contacting the object to be moved. I know, a small difference, and the rules are the rules. But a push is a lot less dangerous than a kick. Ever notice how much motion a football kicker uses before contacting the ball?

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After looking at the video again, I'd say Skinner PUSHED the player away with his skate rather than KICKING him. To me pushing would mean not using force until the hand or foot was already in contact with the object to be moved. Kicking, OTOH, would involve the hand or foot in motion prior to contacting the object to be moved. I know, a small difference, and the rules are the rules. But a push is a lot less dangerous than a kick. Ever notice how much motion a football kicker uses before contacting the ball?

Yeah, I'd called it a push off too. And it was so mild that Nichols didnt even know it happened...he's zoned in on the puck and play the whole time. You would think to get a two game suspension, the "victim" would at least know that he'd been victimized?

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Push off or whatever. Look, he's pushing his skate up near the guy's groin. Yeah, it is on the outside of the leg on padding. But a slip and maybe it cuts a player in the groin.

2 games is harsh, yeah. I think Shanny came down on him since they just had that discussion about a slew foot.

I love Skins. I'm a homer. But I'm kind of glad he's getting a wake up call here. He needs to change a few things to play in this league a long time. If he's gonna get a suspension, there's no better time than now with the season in the tank.

---

Oh, and the guy driving the get away car gets charged with murder too. Push, kick? Doesn't matter.

Edited by wxray1

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Yeah, I'd called it a push off too. And it was so mild that Nichols didnt even know it happened...he's zoned in on the puck and play the whole time. You would think to get a two game suspension, the "victim" would at least know that he'd been victimized?

I don't know Red, I don't see how Skinner's kick (or push), which moved a sideways standing Nichols (skates against the grain) back two feet and raked up his leg from knee to mid-thigh can be considered "mild". I agree with Shanny and I'm ok with the suspension because no matter which way you turn it it was intentional, careless and downright dangerous and hopefully a good wake-up call for Skinns. What made the situation even worse in my eyes is the fact that Skinner wasn't even looking when he kicked. Just imagine if Nichols had ended up on his butt or knees during the puck battle, unbeknownst to Skinner, and his skate was up against the side of Nichols' neck instead of knee.....

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I didn't see the kick initially. But a few plays before that, I saw two St Loius players sandwich Skinner. It looked as they were trying to get a head shot. Skinner takes a lot of physical punishment. I guess thats because of his talent, and sometimes because of his size. It looked like Nichols initially boarded him. Then the scuffle began. The officials were slow to gain control of the situation. Eventually, Nichols was helped off the ice to the dressing room.

After, I saw the suspension w/video on NHL.com It looked like Skinner was trying to remove himself from the fray. As a result, he used his skate to defend himself. It wasn't the smartest play and he shouldn't have done it. Here again there was no call made. I think the referees lost control of the game before this incident. Their call inconsistancy leads to out of control situations such as this.

Edited by 13caniac

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The call by the league is warranted. We all saw what happened to Wardo a couple seasons ago from a skate blade. Did he intend to injure, I don't think so, but it doesn't make it any less dangerous. I have no problem with suspensions that highlight player safety. No one wants to see one of their players go down to injury because someone did something malicious or stupid.

Now that being said, the league should also hold on ice officials responsible. They are the league's eyes and ears to ensure the game is played in a safe manner. The increasing lack of judgement and consistency in officials has a HUGE impact on the conduct and outcome of a game. Officials should also face fines and suspensions for sh#@%y calls. Players and coaches have to answer for their actions if they make mistakes, officials should be held to the same standard. How many games are decided by a terrible call/non call? How players get suspended after the fact when no call was made on the ice? Other than being booed by 18,000 people what is their accountability? They get a paycheck no matter how horrible their performance was. End rant.

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