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New CBA or Lockout? "All things CBA"

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I wouldn't think there would be any reason for Bettman & Daily to meet with Fehr & Fehr unless they are trying to find common ground to hammer out a proposal. Nothing else can be gained from a secret and private meeting unless they are drawing up an agreement to be presented to their respective sides. . I am hopeful that by tomorrow both sides will have a better counter offer.

On the "oh really" side of things I just read that NBC pays the NHL $200 million this year even if the boys never skate a game. They just add a year to the TV deal when it is settled. I guess the owners can plan ahead.

I hope you are right, and I hope the counter(s) have more common ground.

I'll say this. My predictions this summer have been 100% horrible. I blew it on Jordan Staal. I blew it completely on Semin. (My quote: "JR poisoned the well, won't happen.")

So far my prediction for this CBA is lockout until Christmas. I hope I am 100% wrong on this and there is no lockout at all.

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I hope you are right, and I hope the counter(s) have more common ground.

I'll say this. My predictions this summer have been 100% horrible. I blew it on Jordan Staal. I blew it completely on Semin. (My quote: "JR poisoned the well, won't happen.")

So far my prediction for this CBA is lockout until Christmas. I hope I am 100% wrong on this and there is no lockout at all.

I hope your 100% wrong too. After watching Fehr comments from today I'm not quite as optimistic but still think they are making progress. I did notice the Oil has signed Hall to a 7 year deal. I guess the Oil wants to sign him for 7 in case they get a 5 year contract limit in the new CBA. Sometimes I just shake my head.

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At least the serious major professional sports fans identify with the specific players on the team. I am all for some minor league hockey in the right context. In the minor league building.

For the NHL: bad idea.

With STH already committed this year, it wouldn't be fair at all. Otherwise, it would be good to understand once and for all the impact that NHL-level players have on revenue.

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With STH already committed this year, it wouldn't be fair at all. Otherwise, it would be good to understand once and for all the impact that NHL-level players have on revenue.

Just read an (overall weak) article on Yahoo that among other things argued that scoring is down because of expansion and dilution of talent from just adding 25% more teams. Imagine the dilution from adding 100% scabs.

A lockout of any significant length will hurt the NHL. Trying to get by with replacement players would be disastrous. It is THE most offensive and extreme position the owners can take and the damage would be deep. That will not happen.

Now as to a lockout until Christmas....I predict not. I think at worst we lose some preseason games. I've been pretty good at predicting this year. (still need an emoticon patting himself on the back).

Now I do wonder, if we lose say 10 regular season games, do they redo the entire schedule? If we lost our first 10 games that would be a Godsend.

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SI.com

TORONTO (AP) -- The NHL collective bargaining talks lasted only 90 minutes on Thursday.

SPORTSNET

Bettman says the two sides remain far apart on those key financial elements.

SB Nation

The league's initial proposal had severely limited the players' options with regards to contract rules. It would push unrestricted free agency eligibility to 10 years instead of the current seven, would limit all contracts to a five-year maximum length, would end salary arbitration all together. The owners seem unwilling to budge on those issues and the players seem unwilling to compromise

I guess I gave that private chat yesterday to much credit. I thought it was a sign the two sides might be working on a deal and seeking mutual solutions. Not a good day IMO for the Good Guys.

Good Guys=fans

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The league is going to have to give on the 10 years to UFA thing.

The average NHL career is 5.62 years.

The median retirement age for an NHL player is 27.6 years old.

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If these talks occurred every day until September 15 there is no way we have hockey before November, at best.

The legal documents alone would take longer to complete if they came to an agreement right now.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if we had hockey as early as November.

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So they scheduled the hurricanes fan fest for september 30th, does that still happen if there is a lockout, which seems probable now? How awkward would that be if it does?

Also from /r/hockey on reddit :grin::

z1VGz.jpg

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So they scheduled the hurricanes fan fest for september 30th, does that still happen if there is a lockout, which seems probable now? How awkward would that be if it does?

Also from /r/hockey on reddit :grin::

z1VGz.jpg

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If these talks occurred every day until September 15 there is no way we have hockey before November, at best.

The legal documents alone would take longer to complete if they came to an agreement right now.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if we had hockey as early as November.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have no idea how excited I am to watch Jordan Staal play with the Canes this year. :( I already have the jersey and begged and pleaded my way into convincing my wife that we needed to spend the money on Center Ice for the benefit of my health so I can see the games this year. :( Who and how many people will I have to take out in order to make the seaon happen and do they show NHL games in prison?

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I got an e-mail informing me that my August payment had been posted to my account so I called the ticket office to what the Canes' policy was to be would be should there a a lock-out, The person I spoke with informed me they would stop charging accounts until the CBA issue was resolved, He said the office is proceeding as if there will not be a lockout and they are in an active process of adding needed staff,

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"We believe we're paying out more than we should be,'' Commissioner Gary Bettman said. "It's as simple as that.'

The NHL says it wants 5 year contract limits, no arbitration, 10 year RFA eligibility and pay cuts.

In the meantime we are watching the HAVEs of the NHL handing out multi-year high dollar FA contracts and renegotiating 6 year or better contracts to players they want to lock up before a new CBA. We are watching teams like Philly make ridiculous offer sheets to Weber and dictating what little ole Nashville must offer to keep him. We watched the Pens release the deal they offered to J. Staal forcing Carolina to not only trade but match the contract. In other words IMO the Haves are forcing the have nots to go along with the NHL proposal or face monetary suicide.

I guess the NHL CBA proposal is as much to save owners from themselves as from the NHLPA demands.:dizzy:

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The NHL says it wants 5 year contract limits, no arbitration, 10 year RFA eligibility and pay cuts.

In the meantime we are watching the HAVEs of the NHL handing out multi-year high dollar FA contracts and renegotiating 6 year or better contracts to players they want to lock up before a new CBA. We are watching teams like Philly make ridiculous offer sheets to Weber and dictating what little ole Nashville must offer to keep him. We watched the Pens release the deal they offered to J. Staal forcing Carolina to not only trade but match the contract. In other words IMO the Haves are forcing the have nots to go along with the NHL proposal or face monetary suicide.

I guess the NHL CBA proposal is as much to save owners from themselves as from the NHLPA demands.:dizzy:

How long were the contracts for both the Stalls and Ward? Seem like E and Ward got big long contracts 4 or 5 years ago. By the way what did Shero use to force JR into making that trade? Arm twisting, weggie, show him a picture of his dog held hostage? As far as I know we did this deal to our advantage.

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How long were the contracts for both the Stalls and Ward? Seem like E and Ward got big long contracts 4 or 5 years ago. By the way what did Shero use to force JR into making that trade? Arm twisting, weggie, show him a picture of his dog held hostage? As far as I know we did this deal to our advantage.

First let me say I don't see all owners as grinch type misers. PK has actually been a pretty good owner. He brought hockey to Carolina, suffered through tough early years, after his partner died he set out to find local investors and he negotiated a local TV deal. Owners who take a risk should have a reasonable return.

The E. Staal and Cam Ward contracts aside the owners through the NHL have a new stated goal to limit salaries, revenue shaing and contracts. Before the words are even out of Bettman's mouth the owners are signing mega long term contracts to ensure their teams aren't impacted immediately by the CBA they want. Then are asking players to take the hit for what I see as outlandish circumvention of their own stated wishes.

Nobody twisted our arm to get J. Staal but by releasing the Pens offer to him the contract was already determined. We wanted him, we needed him and we got him. No problem but by releasing the Pens offer we needed to match or walk. just saying the contract was predetermined.

I think you will have to agree the S. Weber offer sheet by Philly was a you want to play with the big boys Nashville then this is what you have to pay. Offer sheets are rare. This one just seems to be more then what it appears.

I think the wealth team owners are their own worse enemies and are forcing the issue.

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Should there be a lock-out, how much is Gale Force holdings obligated to pay? The players will not get a paycheck but what about the coaches and support staff? What about rent for the games that have been scheduled but will not be played? What about lost revenue from concessions, parking, and merchandise? What about revenue the area restaurants and bars will not see. Multiply this across the NHL and it could be a large financial impact. The teams that are already losing money will lose even more money. This would seem to be incentive to get an agreement signed ASAP but this doesn’t seem to be the case.

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Lots of tickets available on Stub Hub for the start of the season. Ya'll rush on over and pick up some cheapies.

Wonder how they are selling?

One would have to be a complete idiot to buy a ticket to a game that has a good chance of being cancelled

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Bettman and Fehr need to both get their heads out of their rear ends and realize that we the season ticket holders and long term fans actually pay all their bills and WE ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF ANY DAMN LOCKOUT.

So, get your greedy butts in the chairs across from each other and get your paperword business done so we can see hockey on time on schedule in October ( camps open by 9/15/12 ) OK !

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One thing I do not understand in all this mess is that the owners do not have much to loose if there is a lockout. They do not have to pay their players. They each will get about 30 mill from the NBC contract. Also, the union has expressed a willingness to play with the existing CBA. I believe the union has put some monies im escrow for the players so they get some sort of pay. The only losers in this deal are the fans

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One thing I do not understand in all this mess is that the owners do not have much to loose if there is a lockout. They do not have to pay their players. They each will get about 30 mill from the NBC contract. Also, the union has expressed a willingness to play with the existing CBA. I believe the union has put some monies im escrow for the players so they get some sort of pay. The only losers in this deal are the fans

IF as many teams are losing money as we have been told, those will make money by locking out the players. It's definitely a short term financial plus for those teams. The deep pockets teams can afford to not have any money coming in for a while. The players union may have some money in escrow, but I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't last long. The owners would be counting on the players starting to pressure the union to get a deal done when they start losing paychecks.

This is the problem when it comes to labor negotiations. The owners will eventually have the upper hand, but not until the paychecks stop flowing to the players. The issue to me is that you can't (or shouldn't) be a professional sports franchise owner if you don't have the well being of the sport and the fans as a priority. I think the players get that some changes are probably needed. I just think the owners are drawing a line in the sand that is too extreme and are willing to lose some of the season to get there.

Here is the questions though that occur to me if there is a lockout. What do the STH's do that have already ponied up the money for the season? What about the American,casual fan that the league has done so much to cultivate via the Winter Classic, Olympics, etc? Most STH's will probably come back, but many probably won't have the same commitment to spending their money. Many casual fans will just take advantage of other entertainment options. They won't really miss hockey and will move on. Hockey isn't a way of life for Americans the same way as it is for Canadians. The NHL is to Canada what the NFL is to America.

The owners are going to be fighting public sentiment if a lockout comes. It's still pretty fresh in our minds that there was one just 8 years ago that cost a whole season. Most think that the owners did this to get the deal they wanted and now they want to repeat that process. I think changes need to be made, but there should be enough common ground and desire to get a deal done to bring the sides together. The smaller market teams are losing money. The players want revenue sharing to fix the problem. That means that they want the owners to foot the bill. The owners want to lower salaries. That means they want the players to foot the bill. It isn't complicated. Somewhere in the middle is a solution.

We, the fans, deserve better than this. The bottom line is, we pay the bills.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Fans also deserve better than to worry about if our team will be here 10 years from now. Ask yourself which side your own if your worried about that. Just sayin..

:tailgate:

I agree. I just think that there is a solution somewhere in the middle. A team like the Canes needs to be able to at least break even every year. I've said all along that the percentage for the salary cap needs to go down as well as making the floor a percentage of the cap and not a set dollar amount less than the cap.

Of course, an accountant with a sharp pencil can make anything possible.

No :lockdance:

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We, the fans, deserve better than this. The bottom line is, we pay the bills.

and you have it right. there are members of Caniac nation who drive long distances to see a game at the PNC arena. there are fans who have invested a good deal of money in a tight economy to support their team. Salaries are an issue but it is the owners who have given these insane deals.

Hockey is starting to make a comeback on a national level with the Winter Classic. The league is starting to have a presence national TV with its deal with NBC.

There ARE issues that must be dealt with in regards to teams that are losing money. Give those teams a deadline to turn the tables and start-making money. If the team fails to do so, pull the plug and let tham flatline. To move a team from the hockey grave yard there must be SUBSTANTIAL evidence (sold-out arena, etc) it will turn a profit.

I wish there was a way the fans could flood Bettman's office with e-mails demanding the two sides come together for a temporary truce, to work out the real issues through the overlong hockey season and have a new CBA in place for the 2013-2914 season. An overlong lockout - more than two months - will not be good for the sport.

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