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New CBA or Lockout? "All things CBA"

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By my calculations, a 58-million dollar cap this season, as proposed by the owners, would result in 17 teams being over the cap. The Canes would be right at the cap.

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By my calculations, a 58-million dollar cap this season, as proposed by the owners, would result in 17 teams being over the cap. The Canes would be right at the cap.

Ouch...for the other teams

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By my calculations, a 58-million dollar cap this season, as proposed by the owners, would result in 17 teams being over the cap. The Canes would be right at the cap.

To the other teams:

09560ceb_Simpsons_Nelson_Muntz_haha2.gif

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I doubt the NHLPA is going to accept this proposal but perhaps there is enough to make a counter proposal that will bring the sides closer together. They need to figure this out before the battle over contract terms can be addressed. That may be the more contentious issue.

I really don't see many concessions by the owners. More of a shell game then poker right now.

x

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Clearly the NHL is negotiating in the classic way. Low ball, then back off some to get to where they really want to be.

It would seem that they are at least backing off the crazy offer and that's something.

If the NHL is going to point to other major sports in getting their 50-50 split, they are going to have to include the same revenue streams. Seems to me if they'll give on that, there will be a deal.

On the teams over the cap, I would expect some kind of phase in and grandfathering for a year or two. Forcing over half the league to cut players all at once would be a mess.

On the other hand, over then next couple of years, being at or below the cap could be a very good place to be as teams have to make moves to get below it, putting some good players on the market.

Puts us in a great position on Semin. If the guy comes through we can pick him up. If not, we have some space to pick up cap hit casualties next year.

Looks like guys like Parise, Suter, even J Staal and Skinner did well by getting their money now.

I'm staying sunny.beach.gif

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If they grandfather it in doesnt that render the cap they just fought for useless?

You would think a salary rollback would have to be apart of any major cap reduction. But that would also put the NHLPA back on the defensive so I don't know.

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If they grandfather it in doesnt that render the cap they just fought for useless?

You would think a salary rollback would have to be apart of any major cap reduction. But that would also put the NHLPA back on the defensive so I don't know.

Well I'm no expert, but I thought I read something like that in the article.

If they change the rules only for contracts moving forward, teams currently over the new cap would be frozen in place with their current deals and could add no further salary until they got below the new cap. They would not have to offload the old contracts by rule, but in effect would have to at some point to make any big changes to their team moving forward. Since the team eventually picking up any salary dumps would also have to meet the new cap, it will be hard to dump big salaries. But at least you wouldn't have 17 teams cutting people loose all on the same week.

No matter how you slice it though, this would be a big advantage for teams at or under the current cap, and teams with at least a few big salaries that are short (Semin).

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This is a good sign. They are talking. They are making some progress. I dont think the players will accept this particular offer, but it's still early. These types of talks usually go down to the wire and we have over two weeks left. We may lose pre-season at worst unless one side or the other really digs in their heels. There is no venom being spewed in the media. That's usually a sign that things have deteriorated beyond short-term repair.

All the pundits predicted a roughly 50/50 split. Now hammer out what constitutes revenue and the other peripheral issues and we're done. I dont think the players are going to be able to squeeze much more out of this without losing a chunk of the season. I feel better now that NHL has made a more realistic offer from which to work from.

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That more "realistic" offer is basically the same as the original offer in terms of the players wallets. The original proposal from the owners had salary rollbacks, and the most recent one escalates escrow amounts.

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oh well. season over. screw it then.

there. you feel better?

That more "realistic" offer is basically the same as the original offer in terms of the players wallets. The original proposal from the owners had salary rollbacks, and the most recent one escalates escrow amounts.

oh well. season over. screw it then.

there. you feel better?

That more "realistic" offer is basically the same as the original offer in terms of the players wallets. The original proposal from the owners had salary rollbacks, and the most recent one escalates escrow amounts.

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That more "realistic" offer is basically the same as the original offer in terms of the players wallets. The original proposal from the owners had salary rollbacks, and the most recent one escalates escrow amounts.

Early in the day, what I heard was basically a 50/50 split and a $58 mil cap. I was wondering about the half of the league that was going to be over the cap. Now I see what the owners were thinking.

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NHL.com

The next negotiating session toward establishing a new Collective Bargaining Agreement will take place Friday, when the negotiating committee for the National Hockey League Players' Association is planning to present a counterproposal to the National Hockey League negotiating committee's latest offer.

waiting......................:letssee:

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oh well. season over. screw it then.

there. you feel better?

Listen weehawk, there's really no need to be a real *****.

Like it or not, I was just stating the truth of the matter relative to the negotiations as they are unfolding.

On XM this morning, several players said the same thing.

Realistically, all the owners did was restructure what they want coming out of the players pockets. Instead of the original salary rollbacks, they escalated what comes out of their pocket in escrow.

But god forbid, don't believe me, I'm just a no-name fan from a small town in northeastern NC. But the player's take is laid out quite nicely here:

Big Man in the Boardroom

And for the record, nobody wants to see hockey more than I do.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I don't think numbers are the issue at this point, when we get down to just numbers, that's a great thing and means we are nearing the end. The parties are working out the framework for a deal...once everyone can get on board with the structure and definition of "HRR", the parties can get down to brass tacks and get this done. We need a frame before we can put up the sheet rock and paint and it looks like they are working hard and getting closer to that end. For the first time in awhile, I'm actually a little optimistic.

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For the first time in awhile, I'm actually a little optimistic

Hope you are correct. I get a different take from the article. The one good thing is that both sides are taking

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Listen weehawk, there's really no need to be a real *****.

Like it or not, I was just stating the truth of the matter relative to the negotiations as they are unfolding.

On XM this morning, several players said the same thing.

Realistically, all the owners did was restructure what they want coming out of the players pockets. Instead of the original salary rollbacks, they escalated what comes out of their pocket in escrow.

But god forbid, don't believe me, I'm just a no-name fan from a small town in northeastern NC. But the player's take is laid out quite nicely here:

Big Man in the Boardroom

And for the record, nobody wants to see hockey more than I do.

I'll give Weehawk a one time pass. I can understand frustration, and I think that was just coming through.

That said, I think the players will come back tomorrow with the same issue. I.e. restructure their proposal and not really do anything, just as the owners basically did. They're in love with this idea of giving window dressing give-backs that suddenly disappear in 3 years and snap back to what they have today. That's not going to work. Heck, Fehr even wants the CBA term to be 3 years. That's great! Let's do this every 3 years!

And although I was initially very mad at the owners with their ridiculous first offer, the "united front" of the players is starting to irritate me. Same old garbage about "we want to play, and we're giving the owner's what they want". Say it all you will, but you are not. Just saying it doesn't make it so. I see the NHLPA has taken tips from our USA politicians.

So, my prediction for tomorrow? A true "break off" in talks. The counter-counter will be scoffed at by the owners and Bettman will announce that talks are off until they get "realistic". No new negotiating dates will be announced. Gary will wait for Fehr to come back with something else. Basically, we'll all but know that there is definitely a stoppage of some time by tomorrow.

I say this because both Bettman and Fehr are too d**n proud to back down at all. Fehr made it pretty clear last winter that hard ball was going to be played. He started it by calling the bluff of the owners by delaying the CBA meetings until really late. (Then the players can whine about it getting late -- hypocrisy.) Two very strong guys.

Again, my disclaimer this summer: I've been wrong on every prediction. I hope I am wrong again on this one.

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So, my prediction for tomorrow? A true "break off" in talks. The counter-counter will be scoffed at by the owners

Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL

Fehr: NHL will not respond to proposals that don't include salary cuts. "At this point, the talks are recessed."

Uh oh.

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The thing is that there HAS to be salary cuts...sorry, but these eighty year, $1.2 billion contracts that are being offered are a joke! Not that the players are bad for taking them...but they will ultimately bankrupt organizations and also effectively screw over the smaller markets.

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Thw following is from nhl.com

After meeting for a little less than two hours Friday, representatives from the National Hockey League and the National Hockey League Players' Association adjourned the meeting at the League office. There are no further formal negotiations scheduled. However, both sides have said negotiations could be restarted at any time.

Looks as if there WILL be a lockout, The question is how long will it last? With the economy in the tank and fuel prices seemingly going up by the day, I am almost at the point where I don't care if it takes the entire season. I do care about those who will be hurt by this action such as the worker-bees at the various arebas and the business owners who will be affected by the loss of games, it seems as if the owners and the players aren't concerned about the ones who really sign their paycheks: the fans and the business owners who have invested in the teams and the league as a whole.

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Aren't the owners the guys that signed these guys to these contracts for crazy length and crazy money? And now these same owners want the players to accept salary cuts? I am no genius, but how can they have it both ways? Let me know when they figure it out. Until then, I can't wait for college hockey. Go,BC!

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Looks as if there WILL be a lockout, The question is how long will it last? With the economy in the tank and fuel prices seemingly going up by the day, I am almost at the point where I don't care if it takes the entire season. I do care about those who will be hurt by this action such as the worker-bees at the various arebas and the business owners who will be affected by the loss of games, it seems as if the owners and the players aren't concerned about the ones who really sign their paycheks: the fans and the business owners who have invested in the teams and the league as a whole.

I have to agree.

Right now, with football winding up, I have something to satisfy my sports fix until winter, starting tonight. Not spending the cash on these spoiled parties almost feels good.

However, I feel really bad for the auxiliary workers who benefit from the games and our money. I know a few of these workers, and it isn't always "bonus cash" jobs. Many of these folks really rely on this income.

Aren't the owners the guys that signed these guys to these contracts for crazy length and crazy money? And now these same owners want the players to accept salary cuts? I am no genius, but how can they have it both ways? Let me know when they figure it out. Until then, I can't wait for college hockey. Go,BC!

I'm no fan of the owners, but I gotta stick up for them here. They clearly they need protection from themselves in order to have a competitive league. It is always this way in sports leagues. Sports are unique because they have the league concept. You have to have rules that puts checks and balances in a league, otherwise it is obvious that the rich (usually large market) teams will automatically win.

It is easy to say "police it among yourselves", but it just can't work that way. Take it to the logical conclusion and you won't have a draft either. You'd have the Habs and Rangers signing 10 year olds to contracts.

In other lines of work, people can just leave and go somewhere else. If your computer job stinks, find a different company. Well, it doesn't work that way in leagues either. A hockey player just can't pick up baseball. (Oh wait, Michael Jordan tried...)

Edited by wxray1

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Didn't you guys expect this though? Either one side or both were going to take a hard stand on the issue that mattered the most to them and dig in. There's still plenty of time before the Sept deadline but a line had to be drawn in the sand before anything could move forward. Its been this way for all pro sports that go though this and the NHL wasn't going to be any different imo.

Did anyone really think after a few amicable meetings, both sides would just shake hands and just agree to disagree? Buckle up folks, going on what I've witnessed in the past, it has to get ugly before it can get better. We just saw the beginning of ugly, lets see how it all plays out in the next 15 days.

In other lines of work, people can just leave and go somewhere else. If your computer job stinks, find a different company. Well, it doesn't work that way in leagues either. A hockey player just can't pick up baseball. (Oh wait, Michael Jordan tried...)

Exactly. Both sides need each other for this business to function so somehow they will have to find common ground. It may take a statement or two like in the form of a short lockout, but one side does not exist without the other.

At least this is the story I'm sticking with ;)

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Didn't you guys expect this though?

Maybe a little to optimistic and thinking that the sour grapes from last time would move things along faster. I don't think either party seems to interested in the consequences of a lockout either, all they talk about is what they want and bugger the other side.

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I was hoping they could get past the HRR and revenue sharing. I thought they would get bogged down on the contract length, Free Agency and arbitration issues. But yes it was probable inevitable. I hope they just want a long holiday weekend and will be back at it by Thursday. If it's waiting for one side to blink I don't think either Bettman or Fehr blink very often.

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Well, even though these two guys have toothpicks keeping their eyes open, SOMEONE is going to have to blink. It is officially "gotten rough". Up to this point, many were fond of saying, "At least they are talking." No more. It is "he said/he said".

Lockout looming after NHL talks break off

''Basically, they stood by their initial deal,'' Bettman said. ''They didn't make an offer. ... (They) weren't prepared to discuss core economics.''

As for further talks, Bettman said he didn't see a need to continue negotiations until new ideas can be brought to the table.

''There's nothing scheduled because there's nothing that we're prepared to say in light of the fact there was really no substantive movement on the economics,'' Bettman said. ''In effect, (talks) got stonewalled today.''

This is not the turn in negotiations the commissioner was hoping for, especially after the NHL altered its proposal this week.

''What I thought was a promising week ended with disappointment,'' Bettman said.

Fehr disagreed, by saying the players did make concessions.

''What the players did was ... make a very forthcoming proposal to the owners in an effort to find an agreement,'' Fehr said. ''It's not a modification of a proposal.''

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