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New CBA or Lockout? "All things CBA"

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Dumb questions: is the HRR in addition to the players' salary outlined in their contacts and exactly what defines that revenue?

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An open letter to the NHL, Owners and Players:

Really? Seriously? After the debacle of 2004 in which we saw an entire season lost, you're all willing to push the envelope just 8 years later?

I will not claim to fully understand the intricacies, nor the depth of the issues involved. I've never been a team owner nor a player so I will trust that those involved have a full understanding of what is being discussed and debated.

I will however claim to be a fan, a true fan of a great sport that does not want to see another season lost for any reason. The NHL came back stronger than ever since the 2004-2005 black hole with a stronger fan base than ever and here you all are willing to risk disenfranchising that base you worked hard to gain your trust.

Please know that if the 2012-2013 season ends up delayed or cancelled due to this dispute, you will lose at least 2 fans, 2 season ticket holders, 2 people who spend a lot of money each year on tickets, concessions and NHL attire and other goods. We will not come back and I'm willing to bet that there are many others that feel the same way.

Do whatever you feel is necessary, but realize the consequences as well. Sports fans all over the country are getting fed up with the games being played that aren't on the fields, courts or ice.

Respectfully,

Iggy

Edited by iguanadon

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Dumb questions: is the HRR in addition to the players' salary outlined in their contacts and exactly what defines that revenue?

HRR, Hockey Related Revenue is revenue generated the players get a portion of if I understand it. NHLPA says the HRR has been redefined. That is why you see the NHL and NHLPA disagreeing on what percentage they (the players) are being asked to give up. I think the NHLPA is saying they are being asked to not only take a cut in revenue sharing but to take that cut share from a smaller pie.

Not an expert. Maybe someone else can explain it better or correct me if I'm wrong.

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Still seems like the NHLPA will still have the bigger slice although not as big as before.

I'm not sure but in the end it could work out that way but I don't think so under this NHL offer. The owners or Bettman has said it is as simple as the owners are paying too much.

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The thing is that there HAS to be salary cuts...sorry, but these eighty year, $1.2 billion contracts that are being offered are a joke! Not that the players are bad for taking them...but they will ultimately bankrupt organizations and also effectively screw over the smaller markets.

If you signed a contract for a certain salary, would you be willing to give 20% of it back the the other party because they couldn't help themselves? I agree that the cap needs to come down so a team like the Canes can operate without taking a loss. The teams that have those crazy contracts aren't the teams like the Canes. JR has tried to be responsible. Whatever the percentage reduction on the cap, reduce the cap hit for current contracts the same percentage. The owners should be on the hook for the contracts that they offered and signed.

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If you signed a contract for a certain salary, would you be willing to give 20% of it back the the other party because they couldn't help themselves?

Thia ia where I confused. Hockey players should get exactly what is specified in his contract, What I do not understand is the purpose of the escrow funds the players are forced to contribute, the source of the HRR, and how it is divided, I also understand the NHL owes the players the funds from laat year and it could "help tide things over until November.

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Thia ia where I confused. Hockey players should get exactly what is specified in his contract, What I do not understand is the purpose of the escrow funds the players are forced to contribute, the source of the HRR, and how it is divided, I also understand the NHL owes the players the funds from laat year and it could "help tide things over until November.

I'm not an expert, but here is my understanding on how escrow works.

Because the players are guaranteed a specific percentage of the revenue each season, and because the revenue for that season is not known before hand, a percentage of each player's salary is kept in escrow. At the end of the season, when the actual revenue (HRR) is known, the players share can be calculated. Based on that number, any shortage in payment to the players is refunded out of escrow, with the remaining being returned to the teams.

For example, if the total salaries contracted to the players in a season ends up accounting for 10% above the revenue they are entitled to, and if 20% of the player's salaries was put in escrow, then half of the escrow would be returned to the players and half would return to the teams. And yes, that would mean that the players would not get 100% of the salary specified in their contracts.

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I'm not an expert, but here is my understanding on how escrow works.

<quote not repeated, see good explanation above>

Invisible: I think you are right. Every time I've heard it explained, I get confused, but I think you got it pretty much right on. Nice description.

What confuses me is I've also heard that with the rising revenue, 100% of escrow has been returned to the players over the course of the preceding CBA.

My guess as to why they "hate" it -- the word almost used exclusively -- is they know the party isn't going to last. The main reason for the good times has been the Canadian dollar. Once $CDN takes a hit, which it historically has, the party is over. History has shown that the $CDN=$USD as it is today are the rare periods of history. Recall that over the course of the CBA, CDN/USA has gone from about $1.30 to $0.99 today. That's a 30% improvement for all Canadian teams, which pretty much all screw their fans with huge ticket prices. So, that's a lotta revenue in the pot for those 6 or 7 teams that has improved.

Also, apparently instead of "rollbacks" in salary and hence readjusting all current contracts, one plan (by owners) is to take bigger escrow. And when the numbers don't work, it will be an effective rollback.

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If ANY of you come back after a lockout ends, then you are ALL fools. I know I won't. Millionaires and Billionaires pissing, moaning, complaining, and fighting over 3 or so billion dollars in annual revenue WITHOUT any regard to the people who generate it (the fans) is just plain sickening. They can all screw off and I will go elsewhere (and it will NOT be any minor league team with ties to an NHL team).

That being said, I do have a nice Ron Francis jersey on standby to sell as well as a 2005-2006 Stanley Cup banner poster signed by Brindy, Wesley, Stillman, Staal, and Whitney. Also, I have a framed "Slice Of the Ice" memento with a Certificate of Authenticity. If this lockout happens its all going away, and the rest of my Hurricanes stuff will be sent to the front office with a rather nicely worded letter utilizing the Irish Diplomacy technique.

Don't know what Irish Diplomacy is?

It's the ability to tell someone to go to hell so that they look forward to the trip.

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Hopefully, if the dreaded lockout happens, u STH holders would get the 200.00 back?

Probably best to leave it in your account. Since Mr. K is paying interest, my guess he is paying more than your friendly neighborhood bank located in N.Y. or California.

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Probably best to leave it in your account. Since Mr. K is paying interest, my guess he is paying more than your friendly neighborhood bank located in N.Y. or California.

Interest? News to me. First I heard of it. Not sure it is like '06. Right now, I'm really wondering what's happening to my money already paid.

I'm getting cranky. Maybe not "mdover95" P.O.-ed, but cranky. Not a happy camper, and maybe a fool as mdover95 says I am. I'm still trying to figure out my response. If this goes on long enough, I need to kick this habit and tell the pusher man to take a hike and stuff his hockey where the sun doesn't shine.

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Maybe it was the season tickets for the other team I was reading about. Anyway I've already shelled out the money so why take it back to shell it out again. When they cancel the NHL I'll ask for a refund.

Edited by winger52

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Invisible: I think you are right. Every time I've heard it explained, I get confused, but I think you got it pretty much right on. Nice description.

What confuses me is I've also heard that with the rising revenue, 100% of escrow has been returned to the players over the course of the preceding CBA.

Thanks. From what I can find on-line, they did get all the escrow money back the first three seasons. However, in the 2008-09 season they lost 13 percent of their salaries through escrow losses, in the 09-10 season they lost almost 10%, and in the 10-11 season they lost around 4%. I would think the increase in front-loaded contracts has also paid a part - with teams able to spend significantly above the cap it is easier for the amount paid to players to exceed the percent allotted for them to be paid.

Also, apparently instead of "rollbacks" in salary and hence readjusting all current contracts, one plan (by owners) is to take bigger escrow. And when the numbers don't work, it will be an effective rollback.

Exactly. Although it isn't the guarantee of lost salary that an actual roll-back would be, with the recent trend of not getting all their escrow back as it is, it would seem likely it would have the same effect. So it is easy to understand why the players wouldn't be too impressed with that change in the offer.

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I wonder what kind of pressure the league is getting from NBC to get a deal worked out? They are on the hook for the money even if there is no hockey. They will get a free year at the end, but today's economics are all judged by the next quarterly report.

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I wonder what kind of pressure the league is getting from NBC to get a deal worked out? They are on the hook for the money even if there is no hockey. They will get a free year at the end, but today's economics are all judged by the next quarterly report.

Good question..What about TSB and RDS in Canada? What about all the advertisers who have already purchased air-time on these networks? What about the advertisers who have purchased ads on all the boards? Hasn’t this income already been treated as HRR?

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Good question..What about TSB and RDS in Canada? What about all the advertisers who have already purchased air-time on these networks? What about the advertisers who have purchased ads on all the boards? Hasn’t this income already been treated as HRR?

It's an angle that I really haven't seen discussed. We all know that the fans (us) aren't happy, but Bettman is sure that we have short memories. I wonder about the networks and advertisers. Bean counters no longer look at long term results. Everything has to work out so it reflects positively in the next quarterly report.

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Again, in this player-owner talk, wheres the mention of the fans, its all money, money, moneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy god or someone help us.. maybe stormy can mediate a solution, coming flying in on his freakin scooter?

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I am still trying to get a better handle on the revenue issues behind the CBA. As I understand it all hockey related revenue – tickets, parking, advertising revenue, concessions, TV rights, merchandise, etc go into a giant pool from which the players draw their salaries.

The players pay into an escrow fund that is issued should a player not receive the funds mandated by his contract. If there is no shortfall the monies are returned to the players. The owners use their portion of the fund to pay for the team’s operating expenses and hope their portion of the revenue exceeds their expenses and the team makes a profit

This scheme works well when all the teams in the league are doing well financially and the owners are adept at managing expenses, If one or both of the fail, the structure is a solid as a house of cards,

A lack of revenue from any of its sources compounds the problem. Will NBC sign up again should there be a lengthy lockout? (TSN could probably show the mighty mites and still draw viewers) What about the advertising partners of the NHL and its 30 teams? They were promised a product and nothing was delivered

Both sides need to come together and come-up with a solution that is for the long term good of the league

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Daily Herald

The owners publicly fight with the players, when in secret the owners fight with each other. They can’t police themselves — can’t stop themselves from spending — so they must ask the players to step in the middle and tell the owners to stop giving the players so much money.

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I wonder how many owners see their team as a legitimate business that exists for the sole purpose of making a profit and how many see their team as a gigantic play-toy to satisfy their over-blown ego.

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Wow, looks like a lockout season going by everything i've heard. I can't beleive they are doing it to us again. I'm ready to say Forget the NHL and boycott it forever. You've ruined my fall NHL, I'm not a huge football fan and my girlfriend just broke up with me. what the heck am i going to do now?

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Ruh Roh. Letter from the Canes came today...Could be the beginning of the end...

As you may be aware, the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the National Hockey League and the National Hockey League Players' Association (NHLPA) is set to expire on September 15, 2012 and both parties have been actively engaged in negotiating a new agreement. It continues to be the League's objective to reach a new agreement with the NHLPA between now and September 15.

In the event a new agreement is not reached in this timeframe and a work stoppage occurs, we want to ensure that you, as a valued season ticket holder, are aware that contingency plans will be put in place with regard to refunds and/or credits related to any cancelled games. Further details will be provided to you should a work stoppage occur, and we will continue to communicate with you regarding the status of the Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations as events warrant.

At times like this we are reminded of how fortunate we are to have such a great base of passionate and supportive season ticket holders. With that, we would like to thank you again for your continued support, your patience and understanding.

Go Canes!

Kyle Prairie

Vice President, Ticket Sales

Carolina Hurricanes

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