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New CBA or Lockout? "All things CBA"

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does anyone have an idea of the dollar amount of HRR that was generated last year?

the following was taken from NHL.COM on the 2010-2011 season

Led by dramatic increases in sponsorship and merchandise sales, landmark corporate investment in its big events and impressive digital growth, the NHL is on pace for its fifth consecutive year of record total revenue and is projected to bring more than $2.9 billion by the end of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

not exactky chump change

Edited by colliefan

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Ruh Roh. Letter from the Canes came today...Could be the beginning of the end...

As you may be aware, the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the National Hockey League and the National Hockey League Players' Association (NHLPA) is set to expire on September 15, 2012 and both parties have been actively engaged in negotiating a new agreement. It continues to be the League's objective to reach a new agreement with the NHLPA between now and September 15.

In the event a new agreement is not reached in this timeframe and a work stoppage occurs, we want to ensure that you, as a valued season ticket holder, are aware that contingency plans will be put in place with regard to refunds and/or credits related to any cancelled games. Further details will be provided to you should a work stoppage occur, and we will continue to communicate with you regarding the status of the Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations as events warrant.

At times like this we are reminded of how fortunate we are to have such a great base of passionate and supportive season ticket holders. With that, we would like to thank you again for your continued support, your patience and understanding.

Go Canes!

Kyle Prairie

Vice President, Ticket Sales

Carolina Hurricanes

I wouldnot definitely not call meeting once a week "actively engaged." And this letter is all fluff, no substance.

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I wouldnot definitely not call meeting once a week "actively engaged." And this letter is all fluff, no substance.

Yank Yank!

They know it's coming!!

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does anyone have an idea of the dollar amount of HRR that was generated last year?

the following was taken from NHL.COM on the 2010-2011 season

Led by dramatic increases in sponsorship and merchandise sales, landmark corporate investment in its big events and impressive digital growth, the NHL is on pace for its fifth consecutive year of record total revenue and is projected to bring more than $2.9 billion by the end of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

not exactky chump change

How much of that revenue is profit? If it takes a team to go to the second round to generally make a profit, then 2.9 billion is not profit. Does the players cut come from revenue or from profit?

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How much of that revenue is profit? If it takes a team to go to the second round to generally make a profit, then 2.9 billion is not profit. Does the players cut come from revenue or from profit?

You make a good point. From what I can determine the player share is generated on certain negotiated revenue streams. The owners if I'm reading it correctly want to deduct certain operating costs from the revenue sources. In effect lowering the HRR generated funds. Until you can define what actually will be the HRR in the new CBA the percentage players get is meaningless. So a 50/50 on less revenue would mean players are taking a bigger cut. From the owners point of view there are costs such as for arena and staff they believe should be deducted from the revenue sharing money before dividing the hockey related revenue.

Define HRR and the percentage can probable be worked out. I think the players will need to bend on this. Then it will be on to contract and free agency restriction. Oh Boy!

x

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I wish I could do the following myself, but being a NC native (born in NC, grew up in NC) and stationed in WA state precludes me.....

Has anyone given any thought to having some kind of massive demonstration in front of the Hurricanes' fron office building, demanding to be heard by PK & Co. and the teams' NHLPA rep face to face, AND DEMAND TO END THIS STUPID STUFF OR VOW TO NOT COME BACK EVEN AFTER IT WOULD BE OVER?

I do think the league (and thereby the teams) don't really give a flip about the fans. After painting "Thank You Fans" on the ice last time, what can they do next to put a happy face on us after ANY lockout? After putting that on the ice for an entire season and having this lockout threat is really a slap in our collective faces (or something akin to a digital rectal exam).

I am a huge fan of this team but missed the 03-04 season due to an Iraq deployment, the 04-05 season (when I was home) due to the previous lockout, the 05-06 season to another Iraq deployment, and every season since du to being stationed out here. I did go the Canucks-'Canes game in 2010 out here, and am (was) planning on going next month.

All about to be shot to hell now....thanks be to rich men crying and bickering over lots and lots of money...OUR DAMN MONEY!!

Thanks for nothing NHL.....

Unfortunately for my feelings, there will be fans that come back, and to me, thats just masochistic, and I won't be one of them!!!! EVER!!!!

Thank You Fans! indeed....

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I wish I could do the following myself, but being a NC native (born in NC, grew up in NC) and stationed in WA state precludes me.....

Has anyone given any thought to having some kind of massive demonstration in front of the Hurricanes' fron office building, demanding to be heard by PK & Co. and the teams' NHLPA rep face to face, AND DEMAND TO END THIS STUPID STUFF OR VOW TO NOT COME BACK EVEN AFTER IT WOULD BE OVER?

I do think the league (and thereby the teams) don't really give a flip about the fans. After painting "Thank You Fans" on the ice last time, what can they do next to put a happy face on us after ANY lockout? After putting that on the ice for an entire season and having this lockout threat is really a slap in our collective faces (or something akin to a digital rectal exam).

I am a huge fan of this team but missed the 03-04 season due to an Iraq deployment, the 04-05 season (when I was home) due to the previous lockout, the 05-06 season to another Iraq deployment, and every season since du to being stationed out here. I did go the Canucks-'Canes game in 2010 out here, and am (was) planning on going next month.

All about to be shot to hell now....thanks be to rich men crying and bickering over lots and lots of money...OUR DAMN MONEY!!

Thanks for nothing NHL.....

Unfortunately for my feelings, there will be fans that come back, and to me, thats just masochistic, and I won't be one of them!!!! EVER!!!!

Thank You Fans! indeed....

mdover, thanks for ur service...

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I just read an article in Hockey News last night. Their take on a lockout was that not much will happen until we get closer to the Winter Classic. Then the pressure will be for a settlement, NBC and all the money from all the side events will provide the biggest push.

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Blargh...gearing up for the inevitable...powering up 2K10 on my Wii and looking into how much tickets cost to the local Deutsch Ishockey Liga team near where I'm getting PCS'd to in January.

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retweet from John Foslund this morning.

Then NHLPA has informed the NHL that players are willing to play and continue to negotiate if an agreement is not reached by Sept. 15th.

I do not know what that really means. Are the players going to play for free until an agreement is made? Will the NHL accept this as a possibility? I guess its pretty good news though.

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I just read an article in Hockey News last night. Their take on a lockout was that not much will happen until we get closer to the Winter Classic. Then the pressure will be for a settlement, NBC and all the money from all the side events will provide the biggest push.

It's interesting how widely "experts" opinions vary on how long it is going to take to solve this. I have certainly been around long enough to be careful not to underestimate the forrest through the trees stupidity that can come in these things, and I have no special insight into this mess.

However, the next couple of weeks could be interesting, and might lead to a deal. Personally, I think letting a lock out ride to the Winter Classic would be nuts. Two lockouts in a row is just a bad idea for any sport.

Anyway, it does seem like the sides are taking a lot of time off in here. Just took the weekend off. Took a break a while ago also. Seems to me that with an impending deadline it is odd that they are taking so many breaks. Can't work on the weekends? I know they make good money, but they're not banks.

One theory I have is that both sides need this thing to go down to the wire. They seem to be negotiating in a classic pattern, and neither side will feel like they got all they could until the other side won't give at the final hour. OR it could be that they are much closer behind doors than they let us think, and will emerge at the last minute with a deal already made.

Hey, they may not, but there is a at least a solid chance that they will. So I'm staying optimistic until regular season games are affected in any meaningful way. crossfing.gif

The next two weeks go by with no deal.....

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retweet from John Foslund this morning.

Then NHLPA has informed the NHL that players are willing to play and continue to negotiate if an agreement is not reached by Sept. 15th.

I do not know what that really means. Are the players going to play for free until an agreement is made? Will the NHL accept this as a possibility? I guess its pretty good news though.

I think this is the same thing they said they'd do earlier. They're willing to essentially play under the current CBA while an agreement is worked out. If this is the case, the NHL has already said they're not willing to do this. Maybe they'll change their mind, but I'm not holding my breath.

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retweet from John Foslund this morning.

Then NHLPA has informed the NHL that players are willing to play and continue to negotiate if an agreement is not reached by Sept. 15th.

I do not know what that really means. Are the players going to play for free until an agreement is made? Will the NHL accept this as a possibility? I guess its pretty good news though.

I read somewhere not too long ago that if there's no agreement, the old CBA will stay in effect until something could be agreed upon. It sure sounds like the players know that choosing to sit out would cause irreparable damage to their careers not to mention their relationship with the fans, and want to look like the good guys in this fight. It'll be very interesting to hear the owners rebuttal, they don't want to lose any of the season but it appears they could make quite a statement right now. 5 days is still a long time....

Edit: what Stealth said ^^ ;)

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retweet from John Foslund this morning.

Then NHLPA has informed the NHL that players are willing to play and continue to negotiate if an agreement is not reached by Sept. 15th.

I do not know what that really means. Are the players going to play for free until an agreement is made? Will the NHL accept this as a possibility? I guess its pretty good news though.

I can't imagine the NHL will accept the players offer to continue to play without a new CBA. Unless negotiations are far enough along that they are just doting i's and crossing t's. I think it is more an offer that is intended to keep fan opinion on the palyers side. If the NHL did accept it and negotiations broke down in the middle of the season and they called a lockout they would be villainized by the fans while the players could use a threat of strike if negotiations stalled.

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I read somewhere once that in all of these pro sports negotiations it is in both sides' best interest for the owners to be the villains.

The players are the product. If fans sour strongly on the players it is very bad for everyone. Both sides know this.

So I wonder how much effect all of these public relations political type moves really have or really matter that much. So the owners look bad. So what? That's who is supposed to look bad.

Edited by remkin

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not much is lost in losing pre-season games. as I understand it, the players don't get paid for the games, fans don't want to pay full price to watch a bunch of AHL players, and owners have to pay normal operation costs for the games

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It's interesting how widely "experts" opinions vary on how long it is going to take to solve this. I have certainly been around long enough to be careful not to underestimate the forrest through the trees stupidity that can come in these things, and I have no special insight into this mess.

However, the next couple of weeks could be interesting, and might lead to a deal. Personally, I think letting a lock out ride to the Winter Classic would be nuts. Two lockouts in a row is just a bad idea for any sport.

Anyway, it does seem like the sides are taking a lot of time off in here. Just took the weekend off. Took a break a while ago also. Seems to me that with an impending deadline it is odd that they are taking so many breaks. Can't work on the weekends? I know they make good money, but they're not banks.

One theory I have is that both sides need this thing to go down to the wire. They seem to be negotiating in a classic pattern, and neither side will feel like they got all they could until the other side won't give at the final hour. OR it could be that they are much closer behind doors than they let us think, and will emerge at the last minute with a deal already made.

Hey, they may not, but there is a at least a solid chance that they will. So I'm staying optimistic until regular season games are affected in any meaningful way. crossfing.gif

The next two weeks go by with no deal.....

I was thinking that the closer to Thanksgiving the lockout gets the more pressure from outside sources. At the end of November still gives them time to start the season and then put on a decent product for the Classic.

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While I definitely have issues with the owners' stance (mainly asking for another salary rollback again after getting a 24% rollback just 8 years ago), I do agree that the player's percentage needs to come down at least enough that teams like the Canes aren't in a money losing scenario. If the league wants to keep teams spread out in places like Phoenix and Columbus, then they are going to have to increase revenue sharing some. They want to grow the sport and increase the TV markets for advertisers, so the haves are going to have to help out the have-nots a little more.

It's a process that has to take place. I'm not happy about it, and I've emailed management for what that's worth. I think it's ridiculous for a team like Minny to give out two, $100M contracts and then ask for a big percentage of it back in a rollback. If they want to bring down the cap and allow teams to reduce the cap hit for current contracts the same amount, then fine. I do think that current contracts should stand since both sides agreed to the amounts.

I'm not ready to jump off the ledge just yet. Heck, they haven't even missed anything yet. I still think they can get something done, but they are playing a billionaires versus millionaires game of chicken right now.

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Now this could be interesting.

The Globe and Mail

a Tuesday morning hearing with the Alberta Labour Relations Board as the NHL Players’ Association seeks to keep the Edmonton Oilers and Calgary Flames from being locked out.
The union also plans to file an application to the Quebec Labour Board this week in an effort to keep Montreal Canadiens players from being locked out. Even though the disputes in Alberta and Quebec would affect just three of 30 NHL teams, Habs defenceman Josh Gorges expressed hope that it would catch the attention of every owner.

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I think it's ridiculous for a team like Minny to give out two, $100M contracts and then ask for a big percentage of it back in a rollback.

I concur. If an ownes signs such a deal, he better have deep enough revenue to pay these guys salaries

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Fear, loathing and "I can't believe we're doing this again" - Bob McKenzie TSN

It's doubtful we're going to find that middle ground. Certainly not this week anyway. So it appears inevitable a lockout will commence Saturday night. Here we go again, it would seem. How long it goes, what twists and turns it takes, who knows. I'll presume, like last time, both the owners and players are "tough" enough and fully committed enough to miss an entire season. You don't need to convince me.

This will be the NHL-NHLPA lockout rubber match, In 1994-95, I could probably be characterized as mostly pro-player, because I felt the pendulum had swung way too far in the owners' favor. In 2004-05, I was seen as mostly pro-owner because I felt that pendulum had swung back too far in the players' direction and I simply wasn't convinced a salary cap was evil incarnate.

This time, I don't sense the pendulum is wildly out of line and probably only requires adjustments that, in theory, shouldn't be enough to threaten the 2012-13 season. But that doesn't mean it won't happen.

As for being pro-player or pro-owner, I suppose on an emotional level I can empathize with the players more this time than last time for reasons outlined throughout, but on a practical level, in the face of the reality that's about to strike, I'm also finding it hard to believe the players can't do better with their offer than they have. But at the end of the day, does it really matter what I think or who wins in the court of public opinion, who sides with whom? We're all pretty much just spectators here.

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The last thing we need is Skinner, Faulk, and any other younger guys on Entry Level contracts doing is riding the bus in Charlotte this season. Unlike Staal, who I think benefitted from it as he was in over his head in the NHL at times as a rookie, this will hurt their development. Likewise, Murphy probably doesn't need another season in Kitchner.

Funny that NHLPA just did an article on the longevity of Whitney. A long-term lockout will probably bring his career to a conclusion, despite that two-year deal in Dallas.

I'm still hoping for the best, but starting to face the inevitability of the worst on this situation.

L

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Or to put it another way, the NHL spent $1.873 billion on player salaries last season

I am confused, If the players and owners split 3.3 billion each side received 1.65 billion. who covered the short-fall?

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Its not exactly the agreement I was hoping for.

SB Nation - NHL, NHLPA Agree On Special Pre-Lockout Waiver Period

To put it simply, a player currently signed to a two-way contract can play hockey with their farm team, as long as he assigned there by September 15th. In December October, the parent club has up to three days before the season starts to bring that player back without having to put him on re-entry waivers.

I can't believe the only thing the two sides can agree on is the best way not to have a full NHL season.

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