Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
OBXer

New CBA or Lockout? "All things CBA"

Recommended Posts

so there's no accountability by the players and their hiring of Fehr and his constant delay and distract tactics? unbelievable.

That isn't what I'm saying. Of course there is. At some point (soon) the players are going to need to concede more. What I'm pointing out is that it seemed that the negotiations were moving along and then after the Bettman and select owner parley last week. Gary Bettman that "we're past the point of give-and-take," according to ESPN. That is IMO taking the talks back to a my way or the highway frame of mind.

It is apparent to me that some of the owners want to break or weaken this union. The formula they are using is the one they used in 04-05 when it worked. IMO it won't work this time.

The players hired Fehr because they felt beat up after the last lockout. I don't think they are going to break but if revenge is their motive they need to come to terms with that and look for a reasonable way to make a deal. But the deal won't be on owner terms. If Fehr's tactics are to frustrate the negotiations to a point the salary cap or more precisely no salary cap becomes a player demand we are in for a long work stoppage.

IMO this is a work stoppage manufactured by the owners. They are still trying to break the union or at least put them in their place. It isn't going to happen this time.

x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok OBX, good points.

the owners probably won't break either. so it is US, the FANS that are being broken. you see it everywhere. each day that goes by is strengthening the resolve of fans too. this goes the whole year and it won't be like last time. there are a very lot of ticked people out there. and a lot are finding that life with NHL can exist, whether it be duck hunting or reading or whatever.

<edited out double post. nhl is busy "negotiating" and nobody is looking at their broken software>

Edited by BrokenSeason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BrokenSeason you are IMO absolutely correct. It is the fans that are taking a beating and being broken. We have been put in our place. We are spectators. We are no more and no less. I am beginning to feel disenfranchised. I think if they can salvage this season we will swallow our bruised pride and come back but if we lose the season I'm not sure.

I don't watch NBA Basketball (Bettman) anymore and I watch MLB Baseball (Fehr) differently now. The NHL and NHLPA should be negotiating player safety, the use of the trapezoid and red line, rule enforcement, post career player health and how to make the fan experience better instead of how to split up the increasing pot of gold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you post a schedule when everyday is potentially changes?

I know that everything is still in a state of flux, but annoucing a schedule sends a message that your are serious about starting the season on 12/1. But the larger question is why would anyone buy tickets to ganes that have a large chance of not being played?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you post a schedule when everyday is potentially changes?

I know that everything is still in a state of flux, but annoucing a schedule sends a message that your are serious about starting the season on 12/1. But the larger question is why would anyone buy tickets to ganes that have a large chance of not being played?

I think you answered your own question as to why the NHL isn't making schedules everytime a due date passes. Why torment the fans with a schedule you know that more then likely you can't adhere to and then deal with even more ticket refunds?

I also doubt anyone is buying tickets right now unless your a rare STH who is trying to get better future seats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As to not announcing new schedules, I believe the league knows the season is toast, they are waiting for as long as possible to “pull the plug” knowing that will result in massive cancellations of season tickets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've written before, besides loving hockey, I am really a fan of JR's moves and I am so up on that that I'll probably show up for any hockey this year other than replacement hockey. However, if these Jablonies trash the entire season....eh later much. I might go the occasional game in the future but STH? No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Listening to Merek vs. Whyshenski(sp) some interesting details, Fehr was using some really crazy tactics such as taking 20 minutes to get a drink of water, stalling at every turn. The owners on the other hand decided that laughing and scoffing at the players during the talks would do something... what I am not sure. Merek (from sportsnet if you don't know) seems positive that the players and owners are on the cusp of a settlement... can only hope.

Also this: http://watch.tsn.ca/...4337#clip804337 from yesterday.

Now today from TSN:

TORONTO - A new NHL labour deal might not be as far off as it seems. Steve Fehr, special counsel to the NHL Players' Association, believes the collective bargaining agreement can be wrapped up in a hurry once the sides make a breakthrough in negotiations.

"One thing (deputy commissioner) Bill Daly and I agree upon is that when the moment is right the deal could be done very quickly," Fehr said Monday during a panel discussion at the PrimeTime Sports Management Conference. "One days, three days or whatever."

Asked later if he agreed with that assertion, Daly replied: "I hope he's right."

Representatives from the NHL and NHLPA have met seven of the last nine days, but no future talks are planned. Fehr told the panel that three issues remain to be solved: the split of money, player contract rights and who pays for the damage caused by the lockout.

The contract issue in particular has flared up recently, with Pittsburgh Penguins captain Sidney Crosby sounding off on that topic to reporters on Monday. The NHL has proposed changes to entry-level deals, arbitration, free agency and contract limits.

"The question I'd ask is why would we change that?" said Crosby. "I think we all think it's the most competitive league in the world so why would you go and change that — the way contracts go and the way teams can operate?"

Fehr and Daly discussed the player rights issue during a meeting on Sunday afternoon, and the union leader doesn't believe it will ultimately keep them from striking a deal.

"We're not making any real progress in those areas," said Fehr. "It's kind of hard to believe anyone's going to drive the industry bus off a cliff over things like that, but I've seen things before that surprise me."

On a more positive note, he indicated that the sides were "fairly close" to an agreement on revenue sharing. It's believed the NHL is willing to bump the annual pot to $220 million from its current position of $140 million.

The NHL lockout has been ongoing since mid-September and forced the cancellation of all regular-season games through Nov. 30. It is believed a deal would need to be struck early next week for a shortened season to begin on Dec. 1.

On Monday, Fehr was joined on the labour issues panel by Toronto Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke, New York Giants assistant GM Kevin Abrams and Toronto Raptors vice-president Ed Stefanski.

Most of the talk centred on the NHL negotiations, which kept Burke uncharacteristically quiet because team officials can be fined up to $1 million for speaking about the CBA. At one point, he quipped: "This is painful."

Fehr also spoke of his experiences with the Major League Baseball Players' Association, where he earned the nickname "Designated Optimist" during the 2002 talks, and observed that lockouts seem to have become unavoidable in sports with a salary cap.

"It's almost as if in the capped sports it's become a rewriting of the Hippocratic Oath," said Fehr. "Instead of first 'do no harm,' it's first lockout and then we'll see what happens. I guess they've decided they can live with how the fans feel about it and they're not going to by shy about doing it."

He also hinted that NHL owners might not be taking the union seriously during these negotiations.

"It does remind me certainly of some disputes long ago in baseball," said Fehr. "In some ways, it reminds me of baseball in the 80's and maybe the early 90's before the baseball owners, in our view, accepted that the union was here to stay and wanted to make a deal with the union as opposed to fighting with the union.

"We'll see."

edit: weird double posting

Edited by Ichigo-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds more like car salesman's moves to me. "I'll be right back, let me run this by my sales manager" and they come back 30 minutes later.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ringnecks showed up on Albemarle Sound. Heard a few tundra swans coming over the house this evening. Still good to go.

Actually, I still think we have early December hockey. I'm Remkin confident. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point, I've about run out of emotion. Both sides have beaten me down. Maybe coastal is right about December, but I won't let myself get hopeful about it. Thanks NHL, you have now become the National Hope-killing League.

Edited by super_dave_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, I still think we have early December hockey. I'm Remkin confident. :)

Well my confidence in Lock Out predicting is a bit shaken. I was predicting short lockout, and it has moved past that.

Apparently the league and the NHLPA are close on revenue sharing. If I'm not mistaken that is a Fehr baby. The league then says kind of paraphrasing Daley: "Yes we agree to it, but it isn't going to be the panacea the players think it will be".

But then they go on to say that revenue sharing is:

"clearly not the centerpiece of getting a deal done. He called the three biggest issues right now the "dollars," player contracting rights and how to adjust to the fact that there won't be a full 2012-13 season."

So, continuing mixed messages. However, I'll take another stab at this.

I'll have to create a patented remkin confidence index. From

pray.gif toletssee.gif to smile.gif to biggrin.gif.

My prediction. I would make this one a letssee.gif:

They are closer than they let on. The league has given on some issues, revenue sharing, make whole...the players have basically given on the 50-50 split. I see the Fehrs now trying to get the short term make whole thing going. Get the players the max dollars possible in these contracts and this year. The owners should have the long view and concede some stuff for the next couple of years to get to their goal moving forward from there.

Both sides viewed a real deadline that is close to now, where posturing stops and negotiating starts. That has mostly happened.

As Steve Fehr said:

"One thing Bill Daly and I agree on, ... when the moment is right ... a deal will be done very quickly."

My prediction: the time is finally right. (Agreeing with Coastal).

Remkin patented prediction confidence scale:

pray.gif really more of a hope than a prediction

letssee.gif seems like it could be right

smile.gif feeling pretty good about this one

biggrin.gif stone cold lock, write it in ink. (But keep the crow pie nearby if I'm wrong).

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point I have more respect, for Congress than I do for the two sides in this fiasco

That's why this fiasco sounds so familiar!!!! It's hockey's version of the "fiscal cliff". And the average guy is hung out to dry by both!

Edited by Bill_B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well my confidence in Lock Out predicting is a bit shaken. I was predicting short lockout, and it has moved past that.

Apparently the league and the NHLPA are close on revenue sharing. If I'm not mistaken that is a Fehr baby. The league then says kind of paraphrasing Daley: "Yes we agree to it, but it isn't going to be the panacea the players think it will be".

But then they go on to say that revenue sharing is:

"clearly not the centerpiece of getting a deal done. He called the three biggest issues right now the "dollars," player contracting rights and how to adjust to the fact that there won't be a full 2012-13 season."

So, continuing mixed messages. However, I'll take another stab at this.

I'll have to create a patented remkin confidence index. From

pray.gif toletssee.gif to smile.gif to biggrin.gif.

My prediction. I would make this one a letssee.gif:

They are closer than they let on. The league has given on some issues, revenue sharing, make whole...the players have basically given on the 50-50 split. I see the Fehrs now trying to get the short term make whole thing going. Get the players the max dollars possible in these contracts and this year. The owners should have the long view and concede some stuff for the next couple of years to get to their goal moving forward from there.

Both sides viewed a real deadline that is close to now, where posturing stops and negotiating starts. That has mostly happened.

As Steve Fehr said:

"One thing Bill Daly and I agree on, ... when the moment is right ... a deal will be done very quickly."

My prediction: the time is finally right. (Agreeing with Coastal).

Remkin patented prediction confidence scale:

pray.gif really more of a hope than a prediction

letssee.gif seems like it could be right

smile.gif feeling pretty good about this one

biggrin.gif stone cold lock, write it in ink. (But keep the crow pie nearby if I'm wrong).

Your post put the smilies back in the job force if you wind up being wrong.

,

Edited by legend-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many people are pissed enough to not watch NHL hockey ever again? I have been a die hard NHL fan since 1986 and my loyalty is beginning to waiver. Three work stoppages since 1994, give me a break. Canada post has a better track record which is saying something. If and I believe there will not be any Hockey this year, me and a group of acquaintances which are die hard NHL fans have agreed not to watch or support NHL hockey in any way for three seasons. Apparently this type of mentality is catching on rampantly across Canada wright now. If Canadians can stay away from the NHL for three seasons will Americans follow? What will happen to the league in such an instance? Does anyone really care about what happens to the league at this point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently this type of mentality is catching on rampantly across Canada wright now. If Canadians can stay away from the NHL for three seasons will Americans follow? What will happen to the league in such an instance? Does anyone really care about what happens to the league at this point? [/i

It is interesting to see this sentiment beginning to formulate in our neighbors to the north. Who knows how it will play out especially in cities where there? is a waiting list for] the right to buy season tickets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think it would be easier to forego supporting NHL hockey in Canada because there are so many other levels of hockey available to support. In the US, particularly in Caniac Country, our junior leagues are not quite as prevalent. As upsetting as this whole bucket of garbage is I am sure I will come back and support the Canes just as I have in the past. I won't have quite the same enthusiasm to start, but I am a fan of the game... I won't be able to resist.

My poll response: :letssee:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will admit that when the NHL ever starts back up again that I will go to games but I'll also admit that I've enjoyed all the other things I rarely take the time to enjoy during the season again. I can honestly say I don't miss something that isn't there but I'm sure I'll be cheering on the Canes when they reappear.

I think Fehr knows he's close and wants to dole out a little punishment to the owners for locking out his players. My guess is he's hoping it'll make them think twice the next time the CBA expires and we're all right back in this abyss again.

You're awesome remkin, great attitude :thumbsup:

My remkin poll response pray.gif.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I survived quite nicely when there wasn't an NHL team in North Carolina. I would watch hockey on TV and when I needed a hockey fix a trip to Norfolk to watch the Admirals (ECHL) and later the (AHL) worked nicely. But when the Hurricanes moved to Raleigh I thought it would be nice to see an NHL game again. I was hooked. It took a little time to completely rid myself of my Ranger allegiance but not that long.

I wish I could say I would join a boycott or in someway make my displeasure known. But if hockey starts again I'll be back. The Canes have become a part of my winter time enjoyment. I do expect the experience to be somewhat tarnished for a while.

My poll response :letssee:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sticking with this: :)

If not, you know where to find me, chasing fur and feathers.

Probably a little more productive than chasing buffalo's and sabres in the PNC parking lot ;)

I hope you're right, love your location.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the players, I say if you are unhappy with your working conditions, either suck it up or get a new job.

To the owners, I say if you cannot run a profitable business, get out of the business.

I am tired of both of you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ill watch when (if) they come back, but my boycott at going to games will last for the remaining season, they have already burned that bridge down, the longer it goes I don't know... maybe even next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the players, I say if you are unhappy with your working conditions, either suck it up or get a new job.

To the owners, I say if you cannot run a profitable business, get out of the business.

I am tired of both of you.

:winner::applause::goodpost:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...