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New CBA or Lockout? "All things CBA"

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I am a FORMER 16 year STH. I promised my self this past summer that the first day they went on strike was the day I was going to ask for a refund -- which I did. I'm not trying to incite a riot but I am very curious about one thing. At this point why would any STH still have "money in the pot"? Do they really deserve to have anybody's money in their pockets at this point???

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I think it's great the Checkers are winning but I care now about as much as I usually do.

Only thing I'm interested in out of the Checkers is player development not so much W's and L's.

I am happy the Chex are doing good, and if it was easier for me to go to the games I probably would, the problem for me is that it's just a reminder that the NHL is locked out. Maybe as their season gets towards the end and we have a better idea on what the NHL is doing more people will get involved.

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I am happy the Chex are doing good, and if it was easier for me to go to the games I probably would, the problem for me is that it's just a reminder that the NHL is locked out. Maybe as their season gets towards the end and we have a better idea on what the NHL is doing more people will get involved.

Odd you should say that. I just went to an Admirals game (closer for me) and I came away with that exact feeling. Now the Admirals aren't our Chex and it was a pretty bad hockey game but still I expected I would at least get a feeling of satisfaction. Instead I couldn't help but thinking most of the night I really miss NHL hockey. I will probable go again this year and perhaps get to see the Chex when they visit Norfolk in January. But it just isn't the same.

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I really wonder if there is anyone in the Canes' organization that is monitoring this message board and the message boards of the other NHL teams to get a sense of the frustration the STH of the teams? Do they really think a majority of the fans will return should the lockout take out yet another season? Do the owners give a damn about this or is their main desire to crush the union? Do the players give a damn knowing they will return to half-full arenas?

I know my questions are rhetorical in nature and will not get an answer but they speak my feelings about this mess.

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I really wonder if there is anyone in the Canes' organization that is monitoring this message board and the message boards of the other NHL teams to get a sense of the frustration the STH of the teams? Do they really think a majority of the fans will return should the lockout take out yet another season? Do the owners give a damn about this or is their main desire to crush the union? Do the players give a damn knowing they will return to half-full arenas?

I know my questions are rhetorical in nature and will not get an answer but they speak my feelings about this mess.

I can say that there are people within the canes organization that read the boards, or at least they did prior to the lockout (I can't say for sure, deflects to TSA)

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I don't see where crushing the union would benefit the owners. Now making it impotent might. They would get their way and keep the special protection from anti-trust laws etc. But there is something else going on. Does anybody think it might be to force contraction and/or relocation? I'm not smart enough to figure it out!

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Does anybody think it might be to force contraction and/or relocation?

It is an issue that MUST be addressed if the league is to be strengthened as one can’t have 13 out of 30 teams losing money. Don’t think this is even a thought as a part of the CBA. If another season (or more) is lost it has to be addressed before the league returns to full-season play. And, yes, the Canes may be one of those teams not making the cut/

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PK has really been tight-lipped with this so far. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in his office.

I am glad that the Cane's owners, management and players have kept their mouths shut during this whole debacle. Shooting off your mouth never accomplishes anything, and it just adds fuel to the fire.

As for Checkers games...Direct Tv does not show them. Why can't FS Carolinas show some old Cane's games?

On a personal note, I split Full season tickets with a friend and her son. He is 16 and has never had season tickets before. He was so pumped up in September....now he is gutted.

Edited by hockeybaby

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I don't see where crushing the union would benefit the owners. Now making it impotent might. They would get their way and keep the special protection from anti-trust laws etc. But there is something else going on. Does anybody think it might be to force contraction and/or relocation? I'm not smart enough to figure it out!

That would be a tough pill to swallow if that was the case.

I can say that there are people within the canes organization that read the boards, or at least they did prior to the lockout (I can't say for sure, deflects to TSA)

I can say I agree with Ichigo :) I haven't seen any monitoring by the NHLPA in quite some time so I would guess that they were shut out when the players were removed off of all the NHL.com websites. The NHL.com folks only come around when there are issues and I would bet the message boards are the least of their concerns right now.

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Expansion took the NHL from a regional sport that wasn't even a brand below say St Louis, and created a true national brand. The result? All the money they are arguing over.

Sure, the occasional absolute bottom dweller (Florida, maybe Phoenix) might have to be relocated, but rolling up the carpets in more than a couple of markets would be a mistake.

A bit of revenue sharing would likely solve the problem and the teams in great markets will still make a ton of money.

If you want hockey to regress back to a regional sport go ahead and contract seriously.

If there were no Hurricanes my interest in hockey would have be next to zero. Sure I was a fan growing up (Black Hawks, then Bruins) but once I moved out of those markets?

High def has helped but prior to that hockey was terrible on TV. Hockey has to BE in markets to create enough interest to build the brand and cause people like me to actually watch on TV, which is where the $$ is.

And I still think that losing the whole season vs. part of the season is like falling off the cliff, but landing on a ledge 10 ft down vs falling 5,000 feet. One is not great, the other? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH "splat".:dizzy:

Edited by remkin

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I really can't argue with what rem said yet I still can't figure out the end game for players or owners. Especially the owners. My guess is other then getting the best financial deal the players want to make the owners pay a penalty for calling a lockout be it make good on salary or something else. If they don't then in 5-7-10 years the owners use the lock out again knowing in the end it costs the players more and they will recoup their losses.

I can't believe the owners would just drive the bus into a ditch for the sake of winning. The game is growing, the tv contracts are good, the issues should be negotiable and yet here we are. What is the end game? I just can't figure it out...yet.

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I have no particluar insight into the end game, but seeing the mediators hear both sides and then walk aways shaking their heads, makes me think that it is at least largely about both sides showing the other side they won't be pushed around. Both sides are so entrenched that they didin't even want to show their hands to the mediators.

The only breakthrough will come if one side decides to at least buckle a little. Either a cabal of owners or a gaggle of key players will have to push their guy to start finding the middle.

I had thought this would happen long ago. But I do know that if it doesn't....

...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH splat.

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I'm thinking that if the new CBA get owners to that 50/50 split, it will allow them to make money and will help those teams that are currently struggling. Then I believe that expansion will take place rather than contraction. The situation in Phoenix seems to be clearing up and Quebec City is quickly building their new arena. New teams in Quebec, Hamilton, and Detroit moving into the east opens up the west for expansion. Seattle, Portland, Salt Lake City, Kansas City, even Las Vegas. Lots of possibilities out west.

Edited by winger52

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From what I read about Fehr is he doesn't cave. He will negotiate but not cave. At the same time if the analysis of Fehr is correct he lets the membership make the decision and if they said settle I think he would either do that or step away. I really don't expect the players to back off much.

On the other hand if some of the "moderate" owners can swing the negotiations to a less "my way or the highway" demand there might be hope. But even moderate owners need a favorable deal or at least one they can live with. If the hard liners continue to control the room then I fear ...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH splat it will be.

I'm still just talking out loud because I really can't get a handle on it.

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I wonder if the players will bite on this owner offer to "send a few guys to talk to a few owners".

Seems odd, but maybe getting the two big heads out of the room?

A guy on XM thought it was some kind of ploy, but we seem to have two guys ready to ride the Titanic to the bottom rather than budge, maybe getting past them?

I'm sure the players are suspicious of it.

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I wonder if the players will bite on this owner offer to "send a few guys to talk to a few owners".

Seems odd, but maybe getting the two big heads out of the room?

A guy on XM thought it was some kind of ploy, but we seem to have two guys ready to ride the Titanic to the bottom rather than budge, maybe getting past them?

I'm sure the players are suspicious of it.

That sure is a curious move. I would be suspicious of the offer. But really what do the players have to lose that they already haven't lost. If I were the players I would send Erik Cole in. He sure could drive JR nuts when he was here and sure knew how to find the money. LOL

x

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Does anybody think it might be to force contraction and/or relocation?

It is an issue that MUST be addressed if the league is to be strengthened as one can’t have 13 out of 30 teams losing money. Don’t think this is even a thought as a part of the CBA. If another season (or more) is lost it has to be addressed before the league returns to full-season play. And, yes, the Canes may be one of those teams not making the cut/

Think you are correct about the CBA not considering Contraction or Relocation. That being said, I don't believe the NHLPA will even allow the word "contraction" to be mentioned. Relocation is probably not that big a deal for the players. There are several Canadian cities and Seattle that would have more public support (read profitability) for NHL teams. Maybe there are 5 or 6 cities to relocate Florida, Tampa, Dallas, Phoenix, Anaheim, and maybe one other team (several marginal candidates, including Carolina).

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There are several Canadian cities and Seattle that would have more public support (read profitability) for NHL teams

very much agree, but want to keep the thread focused on the CBA and not contraction or relocation as that topic is worthy of its own thread

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When I mentioned contraction/relocation as a possible end game I wasn't thinking the owners would demand a contraction as part of the new CBA. If I'm an owner of a marginal team I would go nuts. But what if the hard line owners who seem to be driving the negotiations (or lack of said) are tired of bleeding money to prop up teams that can't turn it around. Suppose those 8 or 10 owners are willing to give up the season to force those money losing teams to relocate or go out of business.

Winger 52 mentioned possible expansion as a end game. Putting the league in a position with a favorable CBA to add a couple of teams. He could be right and I once thought this was a viable possibility. I just don't think it is anymore.

Or it could just be entrenched sides not willing to budge but I just think there is something more. I can't believe that two tough negotiators can't find a solution if it is just over money. I just don't know what the end game is. But I will say this, what ever it is on both sides is crucial to getting back on the ice this year.

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Both sides are arguing for a bigger part of a shrinking pie. That is the bothersome part.

No way the players bite on the negotiating directly with the owners. Business giants vs. jocks...wonder who would have the advantage?

I have just about checked out on things lately. I see nothing but monkeys throwing feces around in the negotiations. Both sides are trying to "win" and there is no winner without hockey.

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I just don't know what the end game is. But I will say this, what ever it is on both sides is crucial to getting back on the ice this year.

for a 12/15 start date to be net, the CBA must be signed by this coming Tuesday. Not going to happen. A 1/1/13 date is in doubt. Wonder what will come out of this week's Bpard of Govermors meeting? Cancellation of the season?

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guess the porposed owner/player only meeting did not happen, The question that remains to come from this week's Board of Governors meeting is if there will be yet another cancellation of a couple of weeks games or will NHL fans be put out of their misery by cancelling the entire season.

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I'll probably get banned for this post, but here goes. Over the past several weeks, it seems like there's about half a dozen people who have made about 90% of the posts on this subject. You know who you are. Honestly, have you nothing else to do but worry about hockey and the lockout? I love hockey and have been a STH for ten years, but I have other things to occupy my time. Whatever happens is OK by me. If they play, fine; if not, so be it. In the meantime, I work on projects around the house, read a lot, work in the yard, play with my dogs, etc. So to those of you who seem to be totally immersed in hockey and the lockout, I suggest you get a life away from the internet and PUBAR (look it up on the Canes' page). This thread has gone on too long.

Edited by g105

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I'll probably get banned for this post, but here goes. Over the past several weeks, it seems like there's about half a dozen people who have made about 90% of the posts on this subject. You know who you are. Honestly, have you nothing else to do but worry about hockey and the lockout? I love hockey and have been a STH for ten years, but I have other things to occupy my time. Whatever happens is OK by me. If they play, fine; if not, so be it. In the meantime, I work on projects around the house, read a lot, work in the yard, play with my dogs, etc. So to those of you who seem to be totally immersed in hockey and the lockout, I suggest you get a life away from the internet and PUBAR (look it up on the Canes' page). This thread has gone on too long.

So has the lockout but it won't stop me from talking about it.

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