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Canes Acquire Jordan Staal for 8th pick, Brandon Sutter and Dumo

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Forget all the theoretical reasons why JStaal will likely break out this year, I'll take his productivity level per game even if he doesn't benefit from more ice time, better wingers, and a scoring role.

Do you really see him getting much more ice time though? Yeah he was the "third line center" but he was getting the third most minute of any forward on the team when Crosby is healthy. So that means playing more than any of the top 6 wingers. In fact using 09-10 season as it was the last time both Crosby, Staal and Malkin played full seasons, Jordan had 19:23 ice time/g while his big brother as the #1 here was at 20:42. This season with an expended role he was at 20:03 while big brother was at 21:32.

Many of those are penalty killing but he is probably going to be put in that role on this team as well and that is not going to help him put up goals. Take away his fluke rookie season and he has 6. That is one less than that rookie season. Yet he still has a reputation because of that one year of being a shorty scoring machine.

In 10-11 he played in a scoring role in all but 2 games, his first one back, the Winter Classic and the next one where Crosby was put out for good. Then Malkin went out and he was the number 1 guy. He got a ppg of .71 which would have been good for 58 points. Playing with him James Neal got 1 goal as a Penguin. With malkin he was a 40 goal guy.

Edited by soulcrusher

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Do you really see him getting much more ice time though? Yeah he was the "third line center" but he was getting the third most minute of any forward on the team when Crosby is healthy. So that means playing more than any of the top 6 wingers. In fact using 09-10 season as it was the last time both Crosby, Staal and Malkin played full seasons, Jordan had 19:23 ice time/g while his big brother as the #1 here was at 20:42. This season with an expended role he was at 20:03 while big brother was at 21:32.

Many of those are penalty killing but he is probably going to be put in that role on this team as well and that is not going to help him put up goals. Take away his fluke rookie season and he has 6. That is one less than that rookie season. Yet he still has a reputation because of that one year of being a shorty scoring machine.

In 10-11 he played in a scoring role in all but 2 games, his first one back, the Winter Classic and the next one where Crosby was put out for good. Then Malkin went out and he was the number 1 guy. He got a ppg of .71 which would have been good for 58 points. Playing with him James Neal got 1 goal as a Penguin. With malkin he was a 40 goal guy.

I fail to see your logic. he is going to be the 2nd line center. And he will be on the first PP unit. And he will be on the first PK unit. And he will be on the first 4 on 4 unit. And he will be on the ice during the final minutes of a game. Of course he is going to get more ice time. You are really starting to sound like a homer. The canes got the better player of the trade and the Pens are going to be in real trouble when Crosby goes down again this season. Deal with it.

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I fail to see your logic. he is going to be the 2nd line center. And he will be on the first PP unit. And he will be on the first PK unit. And he will be on the first 4 on 4 unit. And he will be on the ice during the final minutes of a game. Of course he is going to get more ice time. You are really starting to sound like a homer. The canes got the better player of the trade and the Pens are going to be in real trouble when Crosby goes down again this season. Deal with it.

I'd say if Crosby goes down, not when. Of course you can say the same thing about any team and their top player, especially the top player in the league.

I think this is a trade where both teams got what they needed. The Canes got a legitimate top 6 forward. The Pens probably couldn't afford to sign JStaal and got a player that fits in JStaals spot, 2 top prospects, and salary relief. Canes got the best player now, but the Pens certainly did okay. I don't see why anybody would diminish JStaal's skills unless they were upset that he wanted to move along and have a bigger role. The only thing they can think of is to say he isn't good enough.

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Do you really see him getting much more ice time though? This season with an expended role he was at 20:03 while big brother was at 21:32.

Many of those are penalty killing but he is probably going to be put in that role on this team as well and that is not going to help him put up goals. Take away his fluke rookie season and he has 6. That is one less than that rookie season. Yet he still has a reputation because of that one year of being a shorty scoring machine.

In 10-11 he played in a scoring role in all but 2 games, his first one back, the Winter Classic and the next one where Crosby was put out for good. Then Malkin went out and he was the number 1 guy. He got a ppg of .71 which would have been good for 58 points. Playing with him James Neal got 1 goal as a Penguin. With malkin he was a 40 goal guy.

Eric Staal kills penalties for us and has some of his ice time doing that. I assume we will role Jordon out there to kill pentalties. He might not see a big bump in ice time. I do think that with good wingers he will at least equal his productivity of the past two years. My point is that is still pretty darned good and better than any of our top six forwards last year that were not his brother.

Personally I really think that J Staal with Skinner and Jussi or Ruutu will put up better numbers that he has to this point. The thing is we won't know until it actually happens.

But a 23 year old #2 overall pick who has produced as much as Jordan has over his young career and plays defense and all the other things is a darned good bet. In the end we'll have to revisit this about half way into the season, but I'm betting that if you didn't have Malkin, you'd be pretty happy keeping Staal under this same deal. We don't have Malkin.

I do think given everything that this was a trade both sides can live with. We hate losing Sutter and prospects, but we really need a guy like JStaal, and I think in a few years his contract is going to look just fine.

Edited by remkin

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soulcrusher, just a suggestion, but getting a great shutdown guy in sutter, and dumoulin, who i think will be a beast in 2 years, should make u appreciate what u got a back, , and jordan will do his thing in Carolina..

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soulcrusher, just a suggestion, but getting a great shutdown guy in sutter, and dumoulin, who i think will be a beast in 2 years, should make u appreciate what u got a back, , and jordan will do his thing in Carolina..

Don't worry, I think we got back more than what was given away. Like I have said, I was never a fan of Jordan even if I was first in line to see the cup when he had it here. I even wore my Malkin jersey. So maybe I am playing his skills down a little, but at the same time I think many here are just going on what Pierre McGwire has been saying since Jordan was a rookie. Even since then he has had a few chance to try to crack the top 2 lines and they moved Malkin to wing for him but it never seemed to work out. Maybe they should have kept Malkin at center and tried Jordan at wing like his rookie year and best goal scoring year as well. Do I think it that was a bigger factor as to why it did not work out over it being Jordans skill set? Yeah, I do but maybe there is a reason the coaching staff did that, that I nor anyone else knows about.

Will he be as bad as I am making him out to be? Possibly, but it will probably be some where between what I am saying and what the expectations from some here are.

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I fail to see your logic. he is going to be the 2nd line center. And he will be on the first PP unit. And he will be on the first PK unit. And he will be on the first 4 on 4 unit. And he will be on the ice during the final minutes of a game. Of course he is going to get more ice time. You are really starting to sound like a homer. The canes got the better player of the trade and the Pens are going to be in real trouble when Crosby goes down again this season. Deal with it.

He was already getting those minutes is my logic. He was often on the first PP unit and obviously PK. They would put him on the ice in the final minute of the game with the lead most of the time but to try to extend the game as well was not unheard of. If you look at the number of minutes for forwards in 09-10(the last year the Penguins had all 3 in the line up)Jordan was 44th in ice time for forwards. 26th for centers. There were 4 teams with multiple centers ahead of him(the penguins were one), so that means he played more than the 1st line centers of 7 teams. That also means he was getting more ice time than the 2nd liners of 23 teams.

So the ice time is not really debatable, now the quality of those minutes and his line mates that is another story.

Edited by soulcrusher

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Will he be as bad as I am making him out to be? Possibly, but it will probably be some where between what I am saying and what the expectations from some here are.

soulcrusher, if your goal of posting here on the Canes board is to convince every one of us that our GM made a huge mistake in signing JStaal and that he'll end up being the biggest disappointment in the history of this franchise, I'm afraid you're not going to reach your goal. It may be time to just agree to disagree that the trade may or may not have benefited both teams and that only time will tell if one or both teams has made a big mistake. We get that you're not a JStaal fan in fact, I'm not really sure who you're a fan of but you've made your opinion of this trade very clear. No one here has denied you this opinion and you're not going change anyone else's.

Since this is the Canes board, how about letting the fans here just enjoy whatever expectations they may or may not have? I'm fairly certain there are many on the Pens board that will agree with and validate all of your claims and opinions regarding JStaal.

Thanks :)

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soulcrusher, if your goal of posting here on the Canes board is to convince every one of us that our GM made a huge mistake in signing JStaal and that he'll end up being the biggest disappointment in the history of this franchise, I'm afraid you're not going to reach your goal. It may be time to just agree to disagree that the trade may or may not have benefited both teams and that only time will tell if one or both teams has made a big mistake. We get that you're not a JStaal fan in fact, I'm not really sure who you're a fan of but you've made your opinion of this trade very clear. No one here has denied you this opinion and you're not going change anyone else's.

Since this is Canes board, how about letting the fans here just enjoy whatever expectations they may or may not have? I'm fairly certain there are many on the Pens board that will agree with and validate all of your claims and opinions regarding JStaal.

Thanks :)

Ah don't worry the worst moves in the history of the franchise all happened in its old home. Nothing will ever be as bad Francis/Samuelsson/Jennings to Pittsburgh, Pronger to St. Louis and Jean-Sebastien Giguere to Calgary.

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i get it!Your a Whaler fan from 70s to 90s.. and u tried to get a ulfie autograph at one point, and he gotta a little upset.. seriously, talk about beating a dead horse... :blahblah:

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i get it!Your a Whaler fan from 70s to 90s.. and u tried to get a ulfie autograph at one point, and he gotta a little upset.. seriously, talk about beating a dead horse... :blahblah:

Meh, it's just a highly educated hockey fan trying to educate us country bumpkins on hockey. We should be grateful.

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And this is why it continues......

Are we treating the visitor poorly?

He's said that JStaal isn't all he's cracked up to be. He's made himself to be superior by saying he's Canadian and only cares about hockey and not silly little sports like football. He's argued with all the regulars here. It seems like the whole purpose is to stir the pot. I don't see why calling a "spade" a "spade" is so harsh here.

Would it have been better if I had put a little "smilie" beside my post?

The Canes traded for the guy they wanted and signed him to a long term deal. This locks JStaal up so we don't have to go through the whole UFA deal in a couple of years. It's the way the league is headed now. The superstars are going to be signing long term deals in their mid 20's.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Would it have been better if I had put a little "smilie" beside my post?

My response wasn't just directed at you and no a smiley wouldn't make anything better. If people don't like others coming here to stir the pot then I would think common sense would say to not provoke them either. No rules have been broken here yet, just the rules of common sense.

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My response wasn't just directed at you and no a smiley wouldn't make anything better. If people don't like others coming here to stir the pot then I would think common sense would say to not provoke them either. No rules have been broken here yet, just the rules of common sense.

I guess common sense is just another area that I am inferior to others in.

Carry on.

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He's made himself to be superior by saying he's Canadian and only cares about hockey and not silly little sports like football.

That was not the point of that. If it was taken that way, well that was not my intention. I watch hockey and only hockey.

I called it silly because I feel that it slow and find it hard to watch. Nothing about me being better than anyone else was meant.

I guess common sense is just another area that I am inferior to others in.

Carry on.

Pretty sure that was directed at me.

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Do you really see him getting much more ice time though? Yeah he was the "third line center" but he was getting the third most minute of any forward on the team when Crosby is healthy. So that means playing more than any of the top 6 wingers. In fact using 09-10 season as it was the last time both Crosby, Staal and Malkin played full seasons, Jordan had 19:23 ice time/g while his big brother as the #1 here was at 20:42. This season with an expended role he was at 20:03 while big brother was at 21:32.

Many of those are penalty killing but he is probably going to be put in that role on this team as well and that is not going to help him put up goals. Take away his fluke rookie season and he has 6. That is one less than that rookie season. Yet he still has a reputation because of that one year of being a shorty scoring machine.

In 10-11 he played in a scoring role in all but 2 games, his first one back, the Winter Classic and the next one where Crosby was put out for good. Then Malkin went out and he was the number 1 guy. He got a ppg of .71 which would have been good for 58 points. Playing with him James Neal got 1 goal as a Penguin. With malkin he was a 40 goal guy.

Jordan did get a heck of a lot of ice time. It mainly was on the third line and the second line last year. Of course, even though he was on the second line for most of the year, he still played against the other team's best competition. Stats prove that. He started in the defensive zone more often than not and brought it to that best competiton and carried the puck to the offensive zone for Crosby, Malkin, and Neal to step in and have short ice for goal opportunities.

He was an excellent set up man for Malkin, Neal, and Crosby. Now they will have to spend more time bringing the puck out of the defensive zone instead of stepping on the ice in their offensive zone. Sutter is a good D center, but he doesn't take the puck into the offensive zone like Staal.

If you are going to look at his point production during his minutes you have to consider it might be kinda hard to score points when you are being pressed by the other team's best offensive weapons and starting in your D zone. I love how you guys always say that Jordan has never really played against the other team's best defensive unit, but never consider how difficult it is to score playing against the other teams best offensive unit. If you are going to point out one, you should concede the other or it is just a narrow minded opinion without all the facts. Two sides to a coin and all.

One thing is certain, Jordan can eat minutes like candy, especially hard minutes on the PK and still keep going.

To put down his short handed goal capability is not really looking at the whole picture. He did have a great rookie season where he caught everyone off guard on the PK. Other coaches must watch the tape and prepare for Staal to be on the PK. Anytime you have a player on the PK unit that is a threat to score a short handed goal, the other team's PP unit has to play a bit more cautious. He may not score on the PK, but he is always a threat to do so. Not many PK'ers in the league can even be considered a real threat to score.

Oh yes, and all the Staal haters always bring up the time where he had to become "The Man" in Pittsburgh and failed. Well, not really failed, but didn't produce like Malkin or Crosby. He comes off a foot injury, then a wrist injury, and then has to totally change how he plays his game of hockey. Not really a fair assessment, but you have your numbers and opinion. Not really easy to change from a defensive mindset to an offensive one. That team still played great D(which is what he had been doing for a few years) and made it to the playoffs without the two-headed monster. Over the past two seasons he has been asked to take on a more offensive role while still keeping up with Dan's use of him against the other teams top competition. He has improved steadily. With a proper third line center on a shut down line and more time focused on offense, there should be no question he will improve even more. He is as big or bigger than most defensmen and skates pretty darn good for a big guy.

Had to laugh at your Neal comment as well. We both know Neal(because we watched the same games) could not score a goal that latter part of that season if his life depended on it. Whether a great goalie save, hitting a post, or a missed net, he just couldn't get it done. Blaming his poor production on Jordan Staal is laughable, but understandable if Jordan Staal is on your poop list.

This was a great pickup by Carolina. The cost was fair, but the pick and prospect are still unknowns in the NHL no matter what anyone says about how good they are now. Verdict is still out on who won the trade. Who cares. Pens got what they needed and the Canes got what they needed.

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This was a great pickup by Carolina. The cost was fair, but the pick and prospect are still unknowns in the NHL no matter what anyone says about how good they are now. Verdict is still out on who won the trade. Who cares. Pens got what they needed and the Canes got what they needed.

Well stated. You are exactly right about the two prospects. If they both pan out and Sutter continues to improve, then the Pens "won" the trade long term. The Canes needed help right now, so they "won" now.

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This was a great pickup by Carolina. The cost was fair, but the pick and prospect are still unknowns in the NHL no matter what anyone says about how good they are now. Verdict is still out on who won the trade. Who cares. Pens got what they needed and the Canes got what they needed.

I agree with Super Dave this was an excellent post. (yes, partly because I agree with it). My read of the stats and what little I have seen of JStaal clearly suggested much of what you wrote, but to hear it from someone who has watched him is very helpful.

Sutter really can bring the puck up the ice. Maybe not like J.Staal, but Sutter is fast and drives forward hard. He is a true loss. If there were any way to get this done without losing Sutter or our other top 5 forwards, we'd be dancing in the streets. We are going to miss him in more ways than one.

I personally think the JStaal was worth the price even if he never hits the point production some of us project.

It was interesting seeing what some Pittsburgh fans felt was fair trade for Staal before it happened: Waaaaaaaaaaaayyy more than what we gave up. But it is also interesting how many here initially reacted to what we actually did give up (not well).

Reading this thread before your post the reader might think: hmmmm before the trade Pittsburgh offers this same deal, and if there's going to be a trade Pittsburgh fans think they'll get half our team and an All Star back. Once the trade happens, suddenly Carolina bought a one toothed horse, and gave up way too much?

From our end it appeared that Pittsburgh was in a tough spot. Staal publicly stated he wasn't staying, and wouldn't commit long term except here. We can't help think that JR could have gotten this done with at least one less piece (though probably Doumalin, not Sutter off).

BUT the bottom line is that JStaal on a long term deal was worth more than we gave up, J.Staal on a one year deal was worth less than we gave up, we needed to make this happen for several reasons as did Pittsburgh. Only time will tell how it plays out, but overall seems like both sides pretty much did what they needed to do.

(One quick point on ice time. I do think as you mentioned that there are vastly different types of ice time, who you are playing with as well as what you are being expected to do matter. But at the end of the day a player logging big ice time is a player the coach wants out there).

I can tell you that while I will seriously miss what we gave up, I am much much more excited about next year than I was before this deal.

Edited by remkin

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It's official Eric Staal fans, your jerseys are now obsolete without the "E.". Was it worth it? I think not... well, maybe.

Yeah, it was worth it.

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Now the old Staal 12 jerseys will be vintage...awesome, I have a couple or three. :thumbsup2:

Those pics of the new ones should have been in the image thread. ;)

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I dont get why their adding an E. to the Staal jersies. When Kevyn and Craig bounced back and forth whomever was the more veteran player at the time kept just the last name. While the other had the initial added.

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I dont get why their adding an E. to the Staal jersies. When Kevyn and Craig bounced back and forth whomever was the more veteran player at the time kept just the last name. While the other had the initial added.

Legend, admit it, they look awesome> :)

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