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SuckaPunchd

Canes Acquire Jordan Staal for 8th pick, Brandon Sutter and Dumo

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To round out the top 6 we need one more through FA to join the Staal boys. I'd hope that Ray Whitney is a backstop and would be considered. Of course I prefer we reach higher as others have suggested.

JR really needs to fix the bottom 6 and I don't like "hope" as a strategy. I'm not buying the Welsh hype and would love to be proven wrong. We'll find out how bad Dwyer and Nodl are without Sutter. We need a stronger 3rd line.

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I think Brent deserves a shot at the third line center above Welsh. I also think we should sign a proven rugged third line center in free agency, that way we aren't trying to fill a void mid-season if Welsh doesn't pan out.

@Manwolf, did you see Dwyer playing for Team USA this Summer? He looked good without Sutter there.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Truly elite talent is hard to come by in the NHL. Jordan will be that (actually already is). He put up 59 points in 68 games this year (including more than a ppg in the playoffs), much of it with less than stellar wingers. Just to use Remkin patented projections, that would have been 71 points over 82 games. This year that would have made him #20 in the league in points, despite third line time,

Not completely true. Crosby was out most of the season so Staal was getting second line time. He also had 50 points in 62 games. That would mean 66 points over an 82 game season. That would have put him mid 30's int he league.

As a Penguins fan(and Thunder Bay resident) I will add get ready to see a streaky player. He can do well if used properly but putting him in the middle and moving his brother to the wing is not the best move. His passing and face offs are not that of a #1 center. He has worked with Gary Roberts last year and he did show improvement in his strength in puck battles but with his wedding I don't know what his off season training is looking like this year.

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I'm excited about getting Staal. I'll miss Sutter, but JR upgraded the team for sure... Sutter's defense is great - Staal's is, too, and he is way better on the offensive side of the game. Staal could have easily gone anywhere that offered more money than us in the offseason, and though he said he wanted to play with his brother, money talks louder than family ties and organizations like the Red Wings/the Rangers/Montreal are good at changing people's minds. Don't forget that. He never 'promised' to join his brother, at any point.

Staal's chemistry with his brother, experience in the playoffs, the marketing value (regionally and nationally), his point production, his special teams skills, (face-off skills? I don't know), and the fact that there is now a couple extra openings to be filled in our roster and the Charlotte roster - thus releaving some pressure on the stable, this works for us.

We gave up a lot, but we are getting a lot.

I can't wait to get some high res images to work with, I want to crank out some Jordan Staal wallpapers.

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I'm excited about getting Staal. I'll miss Sutter, but JR upgraded the team for sure... Sutter's defense is great - Staal's is, too, and he is way better on the offensive side of the game. Staal could have easily gone anywhere that offered more money than us in the offseason, and though he said he wanted to play with his brother, money talks louder than family ties and organizations like the Red Wings/the Rangers/Montreal are good at changing people's minds. Don't forget that. He never 'promised' to join his brother, at any point.

Staal's chemistry with his brother, experience in the playoffs, the marketing value (regionally and nationally), his point production, his special teams skills, (face-off skills? I don't know), and the fact that there is now a couple extra openings to be filled in our roster and the Charlotte roster - thus releaving some pressure on the stable, this works for us.

We gave up a lot, but we are getting a lot.

I can't wait to get some high res images to work with, I want to crank out some Jordan Staal wallpapers.

51% on f/o wins

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Not completely true. Crosby was out most of the season so Staal was getting second line time. He also had 50 points in 62 games. That would mean 66 points over an 82 game season. That would have put him mid 30's int he league.

As a Penguins fan(and Thunder Bay resident) I will add get ready to see a streaky player. He can do well if used properly but putting him in the middle and moving his brother to the wing is not the best move. His passing and face offs are not that of a #1 center. He has worked with Gary Roberts last year and he did show improvement in his strength in puck battles but with his wedding I don't know what his off season training is looking like this year.

Not to nitpick but, ok to nitpick, I did say some of the time on the third line and I also included playoff production, which is harder to come by than regular season production, and if you add that in you get the projection to 71 points. (I also included playoffs for the other comparison players.)

I agree with NOT putting the Staals on the same line, though I wouldn't mind seeing it occasionally.

Edited by remkin

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Not to nitpick but, ok to nitpick, I did say some of the time on the third line and I also included playoff production, which is harder to come by than regular season production, and if you add that in you get the projection to 71 points. (I also included playoffs for the other comparison players.)

I agree with NOT putting the Staals on the same line, though I wouldn't mind seeing it occasionally.

I would not count that playoff series though. It was crazy and not typical playoff hockey. Goals were easier to come by for both teams(Pittsburgh 26/Philly 30). Neither goalie was playing up to AHL standards. Look at Giroux being 4th in playoff scoring with 17 points in 10 games for proof of that.

Edited by soulcrusher

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This trade is what this team needed. We had to give up a lot but that's the cost. I can't imagine that there will be a problem signing an extension with Jordan. We all know that the Canes could not talk to him but there is nothing to keep our captain from talking to his brother. I have no doubts that there were nods and winks going on all over the place.

A couple of interesting yahoo sports articles;

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jordan-staal-available-maple-leafs-162200607--nhl.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/brian-burke-jordan-staal-trade-didn-t-brother-180022593--nhl.html

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Just to give our wonderful Canes Nation some perspective on what some die-hard hockey fans from Canada think about our trade...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/jordan-staal-traded-by-pens-will-join-brother-eric-in-carolina/article4365525/comments/

UPSHOT: Overall, most neutral fans think we easily got the better end of this trade!!!!!

icon_applause2.gif

GO 2012-2013 CANES!!!

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Though this is ostensibly a center-for-center trade, here's hoping Muller is pushing hard to have the brothers Staal on the same line, in order to maximize their natural chemistry. Letting Jordan take faceoffs with Eric on the wing would be better still; it's Eric's natural position, and he's not a faceoff man - whether he cares to admit it or not.

Hoping Skinner gets more draws this year too.

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Reading over the Checkers analysis of our draft picks, it makes it a little easier to see how this deal needed to be done. I know it's very common for hockey drafts, these guys get drafted young and work through the system just like in baseball, but it looks like NONE of these guys are going pro next year, not even to play for Charlotte. Several of the guys are too young to play and will stay in Juniors, several are moving on to Major Juniors or College. The two players that are eligible to play in Charlotte still likely won't. So we're looking at the exact same roster for Raleigh and Charlotte as next year, so they had to do something. We still can make some moves in free agency, and with the extra draft picks we got from trades, we were able to make a big splashy move like this and yet still restock and reload the minor system. We picked up some good looking prospects and I look forward to seeing them move up in the system.

That being said, as some have mentioned Sutter for Staal is a steal in our favor, but I still think Sutter and this years first rounder is a steep price to pay.. but you gotta pay to play the game I suppose. For those that bemoan JR not going after high dollar free agents and trying to dink and dunk with 4th liners, well he finally made a big splash. I guess that's something to be said.

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...@Manwolf, did you see Dwyer playing for Team USA this Summer? He looked good without Sutter there.

I did and thought he looked terrible. The final nail was when he failed to leave the ice minus a defenders broken stick. Instead he took his stick back and contributed to the losing goal.

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Very cool. Thanks for the link. Almost like we are on the conference call.

Very clear he wasn't staying in Pittsburgh long term so long as Sid and Malkin are there and it wasn't about the money it was about getting to center a scoring line and see what he can do. Also sounds like he's ready to sign long term with us, and that Eric told him Raleigh's and the Hurricanes are a great place to be.

Maybe not surprising, but interesting to hear him confirm all that.

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UPSHOT: Overall, most neutral fans think we easily got the better end of this trade!!!!!

I have no idea what you mean by neutral.. but the actual results are (as of this moment, 26 comments and 11 replies):

1 trade was equal

1 good deal for both teams

4 Carolina gave up too much

2 Carolina got robbed

1 Carolina wins this trade

1 The guy above is clueless.

1 Carolina got the best player in the draft

1 Pittsburgh will need to be generous in the next trade (to make up for taking advantage of Carolina in this one)

The final record? Pittsburgh 8, Carolina 2, and 2 ties.

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Though this is ostensibly a center-for-center trade, here's hoping Muller is pushing hard to have the brothers Staal on the same line, in order to maximize their natural chemistry. Letting Jordan take faceoffs with Eric on the wing would be better still; it's Eric's natural position, and he's not a faceoff man - whether he cares to admit it or not.

Hoping Skinner gets more draws this year too.

Sorry but Eric's natural position is center (and his preference as of a couple of yrs ago). He's just talented enough to play wing if needed. Although, he started out really "sucking" at face-offs (just like he did at scoring goals), Eric worked very hard with Rod. He ended the year with a 52.5% f/o wins; best of any center on the team and 2nd to Jussi's 55%. This is better than Jordan's 51% and Sutter's 50.5% too.

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From my earlier post:

Nash goals/game: 0.37 ppg: 0.72

Parise goals/game: 0.37 ppg: 0.79

Semin goals/game: 0.26 ppg: 0.64

BRyan goals/game: 0.39 ppg: 0.71

J.Staal goals/game: 0.45 ppg: 0.87

Just to add one more name to this list, over the last 27 games of the year:

Tlusty ppg: 0.67

I do not think JR gets that big time winger before the start of the season. Of course it would be nice, and I'm sure he kicks the tires on Penner and B.Ryan and sniffs around a few others, but Staal was the big move, at least on offense. I think JR has Tlusty penciled into the top 6, but with a pretty firm pressure on the pencil.

I think we eventually might add to that, but not before the season unless JR can find just the right deal.

Edited by remkin

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Sorry but Eric's natural position is center (and his preference as of a couple of yrs ago). He's just talented enough to play wing if needed. Although, he started out really "sucking" at face-offs (just like he did at scoring goals), Eric worked very hard with Rod. He ended the year with a 52.5% f/o wins; best of any center on the team and 2nd to Jussi's 55%. This is better than Jordan's 51% and Sutter's 50.5% too.

I also see us going Staal/Staal down the middle.

Why?

1. If J.Staal was interesting in playing wing he could have stayed in Pittsburgh.

2. As the guy who started the thread is Eric Staal really a center? I must confess: He proved himself the second half of the year. He wins faceoffs and is an underrated passer and led the team by far in assists despite not having a sniper to pass to.

3. I am reminded of a scene from the classic Monty Python and the Holy Grail, were the swamp king tells his son, who just said he doesn't care about "tracts of land", "Son, we live in a swamp. We need all the land we can get" We just gave up a center. If we move the Staal's together, we are down 2 centers.

There are more reason, but I've been posting way too much lately.

Edited by remkin

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Sorry but Eric's natural position is center (and his preference as of a couple of yrs ago). He's just talented enough to play wing if needed. Although, he started out really "sucking" at face-offs (just like he did at scoring goals), Eric worked very hard with Rod. He ended the year with a 52.5% f/o wins; best of any center on the team and 2nd to Jussi's 55%. This is better than Jordan's 51% and Sutter's 50.5% too.

"Sorry" back at ya, but you're wrong. Eric is no center, as anyone who understands the position will attest. He's a toothpick. He refuses to consistently go to the front of the net. When he does he is unable to plant himself there. And his just-acquired little brother (who is a natural center) is not only willing and able to do those things but is a far superior face-off man than Eric was at the same age (at 23, Eric won 45.3% of draws).

Moreover, it really doesn't matter if Eric "prefers" to play center or not, because Eric's not the coach. I think he'll start the season at center, but another slow start will see him on wing (which, based on his playing style, is his natural position) by December, with Jordan in the middle. There's been so much excuse-making on E.'s behalf about not having a winger with whom he has "chemistry" that I'll go even further: This trade is JR's way of telling Eric he's out of excuses. We traded an incredibly promising young center to do this, and if E. can't find chemistry with his own brother, we may have no choice but to lose him while he still has some value.

If that happens - and don't misunderstand, I want Eric to succeed here long term, and believe it is more a mental issue than a skills issue - but IF that happens, we still come out of it with a younger, bigger, stronger Staal, who is a natural center and, by all accounts, a natural leader.

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I hate to see Sutter go, he is a great player and was always solid and consistent. However, I have faith in JR and Ron. They didn't just go out and do this on a whim, they wouldn't sacrifice Sutter for the sake of having Staal brothers play together. Only time will tell but in the end I say it's a good trade and will benefit the Hurricanes.

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Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it seems that Shero used the Rangers as leverage at the last minute in order to force JR's hand. If you believe that the team receiving the best player wins the trade, then the 'Canes win this one. But we'll see in 3-4 years when Pouliot and Dumoulin show their true forms.

Yeah, it sucks that Sutter had to go, but with the threat of JStaal going to NY it had to be done. I think this trade is pretty square either way.

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We spent months debating Rem's Eric Staal thread, and whether he's a natural center or winger. No need to rehash all that because we just might find out for real. Seems JR might need to sign another center though, can't bank on Welsh to be all that and then some.

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I see Staal and Staal centering the 1st and 2nd lines. Which one is actually the "1st" line remains to be seen. I also see Staal and Staal on the same PP unit and on the ice on the same line late in close games.

I also see a tall dark man in your future, and a cow...on a cotton house.

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I see Staal and Staal centering the 1st and 2nd lines. Which one is actually the "1st" line remains to be seen. I also see Staal and Staal on the same PP unit and on the ice on the same line late in close games.

I also see a tall dark man in your future, and a cow...on a cotton house.

I'll say it again, I really like the idea of this. We could win those 3 or 4 games to get us in right there. Like the Staal-Staal one-two punch as well. But I'm an E. Staal is a center guy myself.

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"Sorry" back at ya, but you're wrong. Eric is no center, as anyone who understands the position will attest. He's a toothpick. He refuses to consistently go to the front of the net. When he does he is unable to plant himself there. And his just-acquired little brother (who is a natural center) is not only willing and able to do those things but is a far superior face-off man than Eric was at the same age (at 23, Eric won 45.3% of draws).

I don't know where you are getting this info from but it is false. Jordan is a big guy but he does not use his body. He uses his reach to keep guys to the out side in the defensive zone and is not the type of player to go to the front of the net. He is not a Joe Thornton type perimeter player either, but net front presence is not in his vocabulary. Kunitz is that man for the Penguins. Not saying he does not do it from time to time but he is not a garbage goal type of player.

What you will see is a pretty good wrist shot.

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