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SuckaPunchd

Canes Acquire Jordan Staal for 8th pick, Brandon Sutter and Dumo

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"Sorry" back at ya, but you're wrong. Eric is no center, as anyone who understands the position will attest. He's a toothpick. He refuses to consistently go to the front of the net. When he does he is unable to plant himself there. And his just-acquired little brother (who is a natural center) is not only willing and able to do those things but is a far superior face-off man than Eric was at the same age (at 23, Eric won 45.3% of draws).

Moreover, it really doesn't matter if Eric "prefers" to play center or not, because Eric's not the coach. I think he'll start the season at center, but another slow start will see him on wing (which, based on his playing style, is his natural position) by December, with Jordan in the middle. There's been so much excuse-making on E.'s behalf about not having a winger with whom he has "chemistry" that I'll go even further: This trade is JR's way of telling Eric he's out of excuses. We traded an incredibly promising young center to do this, and if E. can't find chemistry with his own brother, we may have no choice but to lose him while he still has some value.

If that happens - and don't misunderstand, I want Eric to succeed here long term, and believe it is more a mental issue than a skills issue - but IF that happens, we still come out of it with a younger, bigger, stronger Staal, who is a natural center and, by all accounts, a natural leader.

Apparently you do not like the way Eric plays center vs if it's his natural position. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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I don't know where you are getting this info from but it is false. Jordan is a big guy but he does not use his body. He uses his reach to keep guys to the out side in the defensive zone and is not the type of player to go to the front of the net. He is not a Joe Thornton type perimeter player either, but net front presence is not in his vocabulary. Kunitz is that man for the Penguins. Not saying he does not do it from time to time but he is not a garbage goal type of player.

What you will see is a pretty good wrist shot.

No question he's a sniper with lots of Swedish and plenty of Finnish :) but he's also got 15 pounds on his brother, which means he's a lot harder to move from the front of the net. More importantly, he actually GOES there. Two of his three goals below result from doing so, a concept Eric just doesn't seem willing to grasp:

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Apparently you do not like the way Eric plays center vs if it's his natural position. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

We can agree to disagree, but just for the sake of clarity, what is meant by "natural center" is someone who has the proper skill set and instincts for the position. That means winning faceoffs and knowing when to go to the front of the net.

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Eric is no center, as anyone who understands the position will attest.

... what is meant by "natural center" is someone who has the proper skill set and instincts for the position. That means winning faceoffs and knowing when to go to the front of the net.

You know more than the whole coaching staff. Why aren't you coaching in the NHL?

Using your criteria, just how many "natural centers" are on the Canes roster?

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I see Staal and Staal centering the 1st and 2nd lines. Which one is actually the "1st" line remains to be seen. I also see Staal and Staal on the same PP unit and on the ice on the same line late in close games.

While I strongly favor the one-two punch as the day to day plan, I agree that late in games (especially if behind or tied) it would be interesting to put the Staal's together. Not so much for some kind of identical twin mind meld chemistry, but it could drive defenses batty having to contend with both Staals at once. I could even see throwing Skinner up there with them. Heck then add in Murphy's dazzle and Pits or McBain and we could press pretty hard at the end with 5 guys.

Here's another thought. Eric has had somewhat of a history of slow starts, and that has not helped things. Somehow with a new coach and his brother on the team, I bet he comes out of the gate strong. And J.Staal very used to the big time stage, but finally looked to as a leader and point getter busts out. Oh, and Tlusty is highly motivated to show his last 27 games are the real Tlusty. Oh, and Skinner should be over the concussion and ready to get back to the 30 goal and beyond level. Oh and the whole team should be raring to go.....

Anyway, like the line stacking at the end of tied or behind games idea.

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You know more than the whole coaching staff. Why aren't you coaching in the NHL?

Using your criteria, just how many "natural centers" are on the Canes roster?

Answer to Question 1: Why do you insist on being so divisive? Or have you just run out of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows?

Answer to Question 2: The same as we did before the trade; we traded one and got one.

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Answer to Question 1: Why do you insist on being so divisive? Or have you just run out of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows?

Answer to Question 2: The same as we did before the trade; we traded one and got one.

Answer to Your Question 1: Probably because you show up once every few months and one of your first statements is this:

"Eric is no center, as anyone who understands the position will attest."

We are a little slow around here, so allow us a little slack coach, LOL.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Answer to Question 1: Why do you insist on being so divisive? Or have you just run out of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows?

Answer to Question 2: The same as we did before the trade; we traded one and got one.

Answer to Answer 1: Not divisive, just bowing to your infinite wisdom.

Answer to Answer 2: You didn't answer Question 2. How many "natural centers" are on the Canes current roster (and who are they)?

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Answer to Your Question 1: Probably because you show up once every few months and one of your first statements is this:

"Eric is no center, as anyone who understands the position will attest."

We are a little slow around here, so allow us a little slack coach, LOL.

I appreciate you trying to make light of this, coastal, but I have to say that when and why I show up are entirely functions of how much time I have and whether I feel events in the Canes' org warrant it. The summer festival? Not so much. A trade of this magnitude? Sure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you have time to be here so often. But I don't. And frankly, the unwritten "no negativity" clause that seems to rule this board is completely ignorant of the team's performance in general and Eric's in particular. Being a fan shouldn't mean critical thinking goes out the window.

JR is a great GM and we're incredibly lucky to have him. But the (too-)accepted wisdom on display here - that he's impervious to mistakes - is ridiculous. He tries what he thinks will work just like every other GM in the league, and I don't think it's a stretch to imagine him expecting more from Eric's than we've seen since the team made its ma$$ive commitment to him.

I get that some people may not share my opinion, and that's fine. But I'm no less entitled to it than anyone else here, simply because I'm unable to hang around as much. And that's the point I'm making in asking why another member is being divisive. I may not agree with what he says, but I'll defend his right to say it. It'd be nice if that were a two-way street. It might actually lead to more than cheerleading. Or maybe an echo chamber is all folks here are interested in?

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Top shelf, I don't think there's an unwritten rule on negativity here. There is plenty of criticism of the team and the players. When you make statements like "as anybody who understands the position will attest", you set yourself above the rest of us whether you intend to or not. You may be a great hockey mind, but somebody in the Canes organization thinks Eric Staal is a center.

Staal has had horrendously slow starts, but so has the team. Which one causes the other? I don't know, but I hope the new coaching staff and a real training camp will fix that little issue.

Now, back to Jordan Staal talk. I'm certainly glad that JR stepped outside the norm and did something different. He gave up a lot, but I still say that he added an elite level talent for a 3rd liner (a very good one) and 2 guys that may never pull on an NHL sweater. The cost was high, but I'm liking the deal. Shero did quite well for Pittsburgh also. It's definitely a win/win for everybody but Sutter who had to be blindsided by all this.

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I appreciate you trying to make light of this, coastal, but I have to say that when and why I show up are entirely functions of how much time I have and whether I feel events in the Canes' org warrant it. The summer festival? Not so much. A trade of this magnitude? Sure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you have time to be here so often. But I don't. And frankly, the unwritten "no negativity" clause that seems to rule this board is completely ignorant of the team's performance in general and Eric's in particular. Being a fan shouldn't mean critical thinking goes out the window.

JR is a great GM and we're incredibly lucky to have him. But the (too-)accepted wisdom on display here - that he's impervious to mistakes - is ridiculous. He tries what he thinks will work just like every other GM in the league, and I don't think it's a stretch to imagine him expecting more from Eric's than we've seen since the team made its ma$$ive commitment to him.

I get that some people may not share my opinion, and that's fine. But I'm no less entitled to it than anyone else here, simply because I'm unable to hang around as much. And that's the point I'm making in asking why another member is being divisive. I may not agree with what he says, but I'll defend his right to say it. It'd be nice if that were a two-way street. It might actually lead to more than cheerleading. Or maybe an echo chamber is all folks here are interested in?

I actually respect your opinion, and you have made it clear in the past you aren't a big fan of Staal's play at center. I also respect the fact you back up your statements with reasoning, whether I agree or not. But at the same time, there's really no need to drop by and devalue the opinions of the rest of us with that kind of statement. I don't perceive what you said as overly negative, it's more condescending than anything. But anyway, back to topic...

As I said earlier, and I hope you would agree, it will be really interesting to actually see some of these opinions tested out on the ice now that Jordan is here. To me, that's pretty exciting, no matter what side of the fence you are on. I can see Eric and Jordan playing together, and I have faith in Muller to figure out where each slots in the lineup depending on the situation.

I can't wait.

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The one thing I really admire about JR as a GM is that he doesn't like to be involved in one-sided deals where one side feels fleeced. With the exception of the Tomas Kaberle deal (which I still can't see what Montreal was thinking with this one), he always says that its important that the deal make sense and feels fair for both sides involved. While the payment for JStaal seems a little high, based on the reaction around the league from both biased and non-biased fans and experts, overall it was fair trade that benefited both parties. One team needed the trade to make an immediate huge impact and the other needed the trade to help with their future plans. The Canes got the sure and proven player and the Pens got a nice player to replace who they lost plus 2 unproven assets for their future.

Only time will tell if the Pens got the upper hand on this deal but by then, JStaal will have had played a few years here and likely already make an impact here in Raleigh.

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I actually respect your opinion, and you have made it clear in the past you aren't a big fan of Staal's play at center. I also respect the fact you back up your statements with reasoning, whether I agree or not. But at the same time, there's really no need to drop by and devalue the opinions of the rest of us with that kind of statement. I don't perceive what you said as overly negative, it's more condescending than anything. But anyway, back to topic...

As I said earlier, and I hope you would agree, it will be really interesting to actually see some of these opinions tested out on the ice now that Jordan is here. To me, that's pretty exciting, no matter what side of the fence you are on. I can see Eric and Jordan playing together, and I have faith in Muller to figure out where each slots in the lineup depending on the situation.

I can't wait.

I agree, but I gotta tell you - if some here think one guy speaking his mind can "devalue" their opinions, that's on them. I certainly don't take it personally when people disagree with my opinions.

Back to the Staals, you know all three Staal brothers now on NHL rosters have expressed interest in playing together, right? Stranger things have happened...

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Top shelf, I don't think there's an unwritten rule on negativity here. There is plenty of criticism of the team and the players. When you make statements like "as anybody who understands the position will attest", you set yourself above the rest of us whether you intend to or not. You may be a great hockey mind, but somebody in the Canes organization thinks Eric Staal is a center.

Staal has had horrendously slow starts, but so has the team. Which one causes the other? I don't know, but I hope the new coaching staff and a real training camp will fix that little issue.

Now, back to Jordan Staal talk. I'm certainly glad that JR stepped outside the norm and did something different. He gave up a lot, but I still say that he added an elite level talent for a 3rd liner (a very good one) and 2 guys that may never pull on an NHL sweater. The cost was high, but I'm liking the deal. Shero did quite well for Pittsburgh also. It's definitely a win/win for everybody but Sutter who had to be blindsided by all this.

Yeah, a real training camp alone could be huge, though I'm little worried about the five preseason games in five days!

And we agree on the trade - I think it's a great move. Fortunately for Sutter he's been watching his dad and uncles get deployed to different cities more than a Marine unit since he was born, so he'll be fine. The Pens had to do something and I'm surprised - but glad, since it helped us get Jordan - that they've apparently decided Crosby is still their future. One more cobweb clearer and he's probably done.

As to centers, I think we have four legit: Jordan, Skinner, Jussi, and Tim Brent.

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... though I'm little worried about the five preseason games in five days!

As to centers, I think we have four legit: Jordan, Skinner, Jussi, and Tim Brent.

The 5 preseason games doesn't bother me a bit. I'd be willing to put the rent money on the Canes running split squads and few, if any of the players seeing any back to back action. This way the staff gets to fully evaluate the prospects while developing some chemistry with the NHL squad.

I think the centers on the squad are EStaal, JStaal, and Brent. I think Jussi is okay at center, but isn't one or your criteria going to the goal area. He certainly doesn't go to the goal area. I thinks it's way to early to say Skinner. He certainly doesn't handle draws well yet and I like his ability to freelance and be creative offensively while on the wing.

If you look up NHL center in the encyclopedia, it does have Jordan's picture there though.

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The 5 preseason games doesn't bother me a bit. I'd be willing to put the rent money on the Canes running split squads and few, if any of the players seeing any back to back action. This way the staff gets to fully evaluate the prospects while developing some chemistry with the NHL squad.

I think the centers on the squad are EStaal, JStaal, and Brent. I think Jussi is okay at center, but isn't one or your criteria going to the goal area. He certainly doesn't go to the goal area. I thinks it's way to early to say Skinner. He certainly doesn't handle draws well yet and I like his ability to freelance and be creative offensively while on the wing.

If you look up NHL center in the encyclopedia, it does have Jordan's picture there though.

Oh, no doubt on the split squads. I just have a bad feeling, can't put my finger on it.

Brent is a stud and given Skin's age and comfort around the net I'm willing to let him try to grow into it. Jussi is definitely a natural winger, but he's already okay on draws and I'm a big believer that it all begins there. The games we won simply by virtue of Brindy winning draws in our end during the last 30 seconds with the other side's goalie pulled - well, Mastercard has a word for that!

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I found it interesting when Jordan Staal was asked if he knew what his role would be. Of Course he said he didn't know but added,"I have an opportunity to see what I can do offensively whether I’m up on the wing with Eric or still play center".

He has a heck of a wrist shot.

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I found it interesting when Jordan Staal was asked if he knew what his role would be. Of Course he said he didn't know but added,"I have an opportunity to see what I can do offensively whether I’m up on the wing with Eric or still play center".

He has a heck of a wrist shot.

And E Staal has shown he can dish it out to the best of them, just look at Tlusty's numbers for proof. Being willing to go the net is only one of the things a center does, being able to feed your wingers is just as, if not more important. It would be very fun watching both Staal's coming through the neutral zone at full speed, not too many other teams will be able to stop that rush.

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It would be very fun watching both Staal's coming through the neutral zone at full speed, not too many other teams will be able to stop that rush.

Thinking of this on the power play gets me all hot and bothered.

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Thinking of this on the power play gets me all hot and bothered.

That's why mole rats are hairless. It will help you cool off. We're all gonna feel this heat, and its gonna be sweet.

---

I liked TSA's observation that JR likes to cut "fair deals". Right now, for sure, the Canes have improved. After the shock and awe of yesterday, I'm getting used to seeing Sutter in that evil Pen's jersey. As for the rest of the deal, who knows? Time will tell. I wish Dumolin the best, but for the love of peat, please don't become a Canes killer. That's all I ask.

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I wonder about the notion of J. Staal on the wing. Most Pens fans think he is not nearly as effective on the wing. I really have no reason to doubt them. So, if one of them moves to the wing, seems more likely it's Eric.

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I wonder about the notion of J. Staal on the wing. Most Pens fans think he is not nearly as effective on the wing. I really have no reason to doubt them. So, if one of them moves to the wing, seems more likely it's Eric.

I agree with that assessment. JR previously said that if the Canes got J. Staal that Eric could skate wing, that he had before. I posted it because he (J. Staal) said it. I do remember seeing a game with Jordan Staal streaking down the left side and unleashing a wicked shot for a goal.

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