Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

Recommended Posts

Amen to that.  If we didn't have an veteran NHL goalie to lean on right now we'd be in serious trouble.  What a huge opportunity for Ellis to re-establish himself in the league again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to get behind Ellis. He is a good solid goalie and glad we have him. Peters is tied for shutouts in the AHL this season. I think he will make the most of his chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll be good in the few games Peters will get in to see if we have something there or if it's time to let him go at the end of the year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No way to sugar coat it, Cam is a very solid, perhaps 11-18th best goalie in the league -- this will sting some.
 
Cam+Dan > Dan+Peters   (or so it appears at this point).

 
All the best Justin!

Get well Cam!!

Go get em Dan!!!
Edited by Greg-N-Ral

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that makes me nervous.  Is if we make the playoffs and Can gets back in time for the 1st round.  How will he play?  Anyone else wondering about this?  It has been lingering in the back of my mind for the past few days...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been wondering about it, Blue.  Because of his injury and not seeing action, we might see the Cam from the first two games of the season when he gets back.  But, I'll worry more about that once the end of the season gets here.  Let's worry about making the playoffs first, and that starts with Ellis and Peters picking up where Cam left off.

 

Peters and Ellis were playing very well together in Charlotte before the lockout ended, and they were alternating starts each game.  I wonder if we'll do the same, or if maybe Ellis will get 2 starts for every 1 of Peters.

Edited by RNT82

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Ellis is playing decently I would venture to bet Ellis would start the first round and if and only if he looks subpar would Cam come in to takeover. Unless Cam can make it back before the first round and get some season games in. While we're hopefully safely snug in the playoff bracket.

 

Theres no way Muller would play Cam over Ellis after 2 months in the first round if he doesn't get some season games in first. I would hope not. I love Cam but even I cringe at that thought.

 

If Ellis is just being brutal and we can't wait for Cam to come back, we won't have the playoffs to even worry about.

Edited by Legend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best case scenario would seem to have Cam back in the last week of the season and we have a spot pretty secure. Get Cam a few starts in the last week. If not, agree, Ellis likely would have gotten us there, and Cam would be the back up. If Cam got back and looked awesome, even then probably a tandem situation. 

 

We need three things now. Ellis needs to be the real deal. He needs to hold up. And we need to get a few wins out of Peters. I'm betting those happen.

 

Edit: I guess the Peters part can start tonight!

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have to get 2 points in about 60% of our remaining games to have a legitimate shot at the division...2 points in 50% to have a shot at the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

heres no way Muller would play Cam over Ellis after 2 months in the first round if he doesn't get some season games in first. I would hope not. I love Cam but even I cringe at that thought.

 

If Ellis is just being brutal and we can't wait for Cam to come back, we won't have the playoffs to even worry about.

Yep.

 

Laviolette let in a slew of hurt-but-suddenly-recovered returning veterans... what year was that?  2008?  Disaster.  That was the infamous cave at the end of the season and miss the playoffs.

 

Any return by Cam is going to have to be done very carefully, unless Ellis is brutal as you say. 

Edited by wxray1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine suffering from the flu and having to sit on the bench as a back up AND maybe be called on to play...no warm blanket and fuzzy slippers in the NHL!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine suffering from the flu and having to sit on the bench as a back up AND maybe be called on to play...no warm blanket and fuzzy slippers in the NHL!

 

 

Dan is certainly the trooper! Best goalie in UN at Omaha history.  They still sing his praises in Omaha!

Here are our Canes goalie stats so far this year (ranked best to worst)

Winning %

1- JUSTIN PETERS    1-0-0     100% wins
2- DAN ELLIS             3-2-0      60% wins
3- CAM WARD           9-6-1      56% wins

Save% (fairly robust measure of a goalies relative performance)

1- JUSTIN PETERS       92.5%
2- DAN ELLIS                92.3%
3- CAM WARD              90.8%

 

Big test tonight against the Habs! Go Canes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Peters should be the #1 moving forward because look at his win and save %!!!!!

 

 

 

 

:sarcasm:

 

just having some fun with you

 

 

You did forget one important stat when comparing their numbers:

1- JUSTIN PETERS       1 game played
2- DAN ELLIS                5 games played

3- CAM WARD              16 games played

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You did forget one important stat when comparing their numbers:

1- JUSTIN PETERS       1 game played
2- DAN ELLIS                5 games played

3- CAM WARD              16 games played

 

For those wanting totals, at this stage, we suggest adding up the w-l-ot numbers     :thumbsup2: 

Moving forward, we'll upgrade the software to include precacluated  game totals in the "Win %" section of our report.

Thanks for the input, now we just need the IT Department to make it happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mind if we change this thread title to make it the ongoing all inclusive goalie discussion? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually I started this thread more as a "discussion" than a "Debate."

Still seems more like a "Canes goalie discussion" than a debate for me anyways. 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you defined elite as top 5. Probably fair. Top 6 make the All Star Game.

I went back to see if I could find an old post of mine that laid out my argument and found 5 pages of TOPIC's where I had opined on Ward going back quite a ways.

If you took the time (I don't recommend it), you'd see that as time passed post cup victory, I was fairly hard on Ward. I actually was in the infamous "average at best" in 07 on for a while. I could see the potential, but he was very inconsistent.

However, one has to look at the progress and the steady improvement.

Despite one of the softest defenses in the league historically his save percentage and save percentage ranking (got to use ranking since things vary year to year). After his stunning playoff run to the cup, he fell back some, but then improved steadily every year for 4 straight years.

07: .904 rank 24th

08: .916 rank 9th

09: .916 rank 9th (tied w/ Brodeur)

10: .923 rank 4th, #3 in wins, All Star appearance earned, not given

These rankings are based on 45 starts, (50 starts in 10).

Last year was an off year, and he's been slow to find his game in this bizzare lockout year, but this year is far from over.

Add 2 deep playoff runs and one Stanley Cup and Con Smythe.

If Cam had stayed on his 2010 numbers I wouldn't be typing right now, since there would be no debate. But last year was uneven.

I can understand if one looks at last year and the start of this year, that they might be skeptical.

BUT even if you look at last year, his save % was .915, #17 of all goalies w/ at least 40 starts. And that was an off year for sure. But not just for Cam, but for the entire team. Recall E.'s league worst +/-. Some of those minuses did not help Cam out. Yet even with all of that, and horrid defense, Cam ends up middle of the pack. (I'm pretty sure he finished strong under Muller too, so probably top third in the back half of the year).

Now one could argue that the 2010 season was the standout and he is really more like the #9 ranking of the two years prior. That would be a fair argument. Still a top 10 goalie.

However, watching this team closely since 06, and watching other teams in the league, it is my opinion that Cam has historically been hung out to dry FAR more than most goalies over the years. Facing more odd man rushes (fairly regular during both Lavi and Mo years) and point blank chances than average. Don't know where to find these stats, but then neither do the Cam sucks people. It is my opinion and observation.

So I am willing to weight Cam's save % up some. Excuses? If you want to look at it like that. My opinion is that it is a reality.

Some teams (Boston, for instance) seem to have great goalie stats no matter who is playing. Teams with a Chara or a suffocating defense are going to have goalies with great stats. On the flip-side look at the history of our backups over the Cam years. Historically playing behind our defense has NOT been a good career move for a back up goalie.

Finally, a lot of experts that I trust, go on and on about how Cam makes it look easy, and is elite. Just about everyone on here respects John Forslund. He is a huge Cam lover. Yes, he works for the team, but I think he really believes it. He estimates a minimum of 20 teams in the league would trade #1 goalies w/ us straight up in a heart beat. Forslund insists his comments are based on many discussions w/ inside experts from other teams.

It is my opinion that the 2010 Cam is the real Cam. That's what we are going to get once he settles down. He was at worst the straight up 5th best goalie in the league. But when you factor the swiss cheese defense in, I'd bump him to top 3.

That's elite.

Am I right? Of course, I'm always right.... :patself:. (Had to use that one since I requested it).

But in point of fact, only time will tell.

I think Cam bounces back fast (tomorrow).

That all said, I am also thrilled w/ Ellis and I think I was the first one on these boards to call for locking him down this year.

Two solid goalies is awesome.

 

 

Rem, thanks for your reply here and taking up the side of the debate that claims "Cam Ward is an Elite NHL Goalie."

I've offered up, largely fact-based data that tell me he's not.  But what about "expert opinions"....???  Do the experts think Ward is elite?

 
Dan Rosen, E.J. Hradek, Kevin Weekes, Mike Johnson, Barry Melrose, NHL.com's John Kreiser, Dave Lozo, NHL.com's Corey Masisak, Shawn Roarke and NHL.com's Brian Compton.
 
Each of the above was asked to rank their top eight goalies in the NHL.
 
Not a single one of them put CAM WARD in the top-8!!
 
Lets stop calling Cam Ward an "elite" (top-5) goalie already, please.
 
The data does not support it, nor does expert opinion. 
 
(sorry Tripp and John don't count as experts here as they're basically part of the Canes marketing team).
 
 

Link to article.... and rankings....

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=662735&navid=DL|NHL|home

 

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After the sudden and total collapse of this team you have to bring this tired and pointless debate back from the dead?  Why don't you step on someone else's neck for a while, give this a rest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After the sudden and total collapse of this team you have to bring this tired and pointless debate back from the dead?  Why don't you step on someone else's neck for a while, give this a rest?

I did not conduct the poll about the best goalies in the NHL and publish it on NHL.com's home page today -- the league did!

In any case, this is a forum provided by the NHL to talk about hockey. Sorry you don't like my topics, opinions and/or data analysis. 

Perhaps just don't read this thread about the Canes goalies if you don't like seeing a point of view that doesn't consider Cam Ward an elite top-5 NHL goalie.  

If the results ranked Cam high, I would have posted that too.  

The fact that not a single expert ranked Ward in the Top-8 might be interesting to some open-minded NHL/Canes fans.  

Maybe it's best you just don't read the article and check out the poll if it bugs you that much.  That was certainly not my intent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what, ignoring this thread is a good idea. Bye  :howdy:

 


Perhaps just don't read this thread about the Canes goalies if you don't like seeing a point of view that doesn't consider Cam Ward an elite top-5 NHL goalie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did not conduct the poll about the best goalies in the NHL and publish it on NHL.com's home page today -- the league did!

In any case, this is a forum provided by the NHL to talk about hockey. Sorry you don't like my topics, opinions and/or data analysis. 

Perhaps just don't read this thread about the Canes goalies if you don't like seeing a point of view that doesn't consider Cam Ward an elite top-5 NHL goalie.  

If the results ranked Cam high, I would have posted that too.  

The fact that not a single expert ranked Ward in the Top-8 might be interesting to some open-minded NHL/Canes fans.  

Maybe it's best you just don't read the article and check out the poll if it bugs you that much.  That was certainly not my intent.

 

Amazing how those who like to wiz on others opinions keep coming back to this thread.  i guess that won't be a problem in the future, one considers this dead (can't determine how many other threads he has considered dead by his pronouncements) , and the other has said Bye  :howdy: (possibly final )  Always interesting to see reactions to opinions and fact that defy long held beliefs . Tripp even keeps trying to keep Cam in the spotlight. He is happy to tell the viewers about Cam's last game against the team we are playing, something he did in a playoff game against so and so we are playing, or how he was spectacular but in a losing cause the last time we played in that barn. Too much time, effort , and money in an average goalie to make the hometown fans think his results are better than his stats prove. He may end up being the Southeast version of DiPietro by not living up to the hype. Good luck on future posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...