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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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Leighton was terrible here and other then one year in Philly was terrible there, however like Peters excels in the AHL.

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Well we see now the it was Cam Ward all along that was holding this team back.

 

I hope you guys are now satisfied.

 

Just satisfied that backups were given a chance and played. Both showed that when the team played well they had the ability to shut down the other team and both even got shut outs. Given that our "elite, world class goalie" is still under .500 for a career, all I asked for was to see if somebody could step up and carry the work load. With Cam playing 65+ games per season we've been to the playoffs once since he became the starter. Just hoping the results would have been different. Just looks like the same old mediocre team.  Offense changes, defense changes, same old goalies,  No difference now, no differenc in past seasons, out of the playoffs no matter who is in goal. Ward, Ellis, Peters, Boucher, Legace, Leighton,etc. Same results. Maybe next year if we have the stones to try someone else the results will be different.

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You guys balked last season when I said Marty Turco would've worked...I still think he had some gas left in the tank.  Oh well...now he's a color analyst for the Stars.

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I can certainly see how you're satisfied getting to see the backups play to a 7-12-1 record while the goalie we were first in the division with was 9-6-1.

 

Just satisfied that backups were given a chance and played. Both showed that when the team played well they had the ability to shut down the other team and both even got shut outs. Given that our "elite, world class goalie" is still under .500 for a career, all I asked for was to see if somebody could step up and carry the work load. With Cam playing 65+ games per season we've been to the playoffs once since he became the starter. Just hoping the results would have been different. Just looks like the same old mediocre team.  Offense changes, defense changes, same old goalies,  No difference now, no differenc in past seasons, out of the playoffs no matter who is in goal. Ward, Ellis, Peters, Boucher, Legace, Leighton,etc. Same results. Maybe next year if we have the stones to try someone else the results will be different.

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backups play to a 7-12-1 record 

 

 

Team sport. Use relative save% as the single best metric to evaluate a goalie.

Don't call #30 "elite" (top-5) and you'll be on very safe ice to grind your axe.

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Don't you know the single best metric to evaluate a goalie is Wins and Losses? It's what's been shoved down everyone's throats for the past 20 pages.

 

Including your daily....that became biweekly,  that became non-existent stat updates.

 

I never said Cam was elite either. I said he's the best this team's got and your stat updates support it.

Edited by legend-1

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Don't you know the single best metric to evaluate a goalie is Wins and Losses?

I never preached that one masked-man.

But I get it -- some think Cam is worth 6+ mill per, others don't 

Anyway... Glad to hear we agree that Cam is not  an elite NHL goalie, That's some common ground for us -- so lets respect each others common and uncommon ground. Freedom of speech is cool, eh?.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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I can certainly see how you're satisfied getting to see the backups play to a 7-12-1 record while the goalie we were first in the division with was 9-6-1.

 

Evidently not, try a rereading. I wrote that I was satisfied we tried our backups. We've seen the results from the past six seasons and when Cam struggled this year all I asked for was to give our back up a chance. 5 or 6 game stretch to see what he could do. As the end of my writing stated I am not satisfied with any of our results. I'm tired of Cam winning 2 maybe 3 in a row followed by 3 or 4 losses. Tired of the inconsistency of his play. Cam finally got to above .500 , but I had no confidence he would stay there. Remember 16 games don't make a season but, 6 seasons can prove a point.

Edited by winger52

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Cam Ward              9-6-1         2.84         .908
Justin Peters          3-6-0         3.01         .902
Dan Ellis                 4-8-1         3.19         .902

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Cam Ward              9-6-1         2.84         .908

Justin Peters          3-6-0         3.01         .902

Dan Ellis                 4-8-1         3.19         .902

Ouch. Maybe a trade in the works for the off-season? I've never paid much attention to goalie stats. Not sure I really want to right now...

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I'm starting to think a lot of this falls on the coaching staff.  I don't think they have a CLUE what to do now that "Ride Cam for 82 games" is not an option.  I mean seriously what the heck are they doing?!?!? Ellis looks a little shaky but OK in a 3-3 tie... they yank him, Peters lets in 2 more, we lose 5-3 and Peters takes the loss.  Next game is 3-0 and they yank him again, Peters is OK in relief and we lose 4-1, then last night Peters lets in 2 and looks shaken, so they pull him but then Ellis lets in 4 more and Ellis takes the loss as we fall 6-2. 

 

It's no wonder NEITHER guy has any confidence.  They've gotten pulled in EVERY GAME THEY'VE PLAYED for the last 2 weeks I mean this is ridiculous.  The stats right now are meaningless since each guy is only playing a half a game so the GAA for each guy is through the roof.  Peters last night got hung with a 14+ GAA and Ellis something like 6.  In the 5-3 game ironically enough it just so happened (since the switch happened very close to midway through the second) that the combined GAA of the guys was 10.  Ellis was at 6 for his 3 he let in and then Peters at 4 for the 2 he let in.  

 

But more than the goalies is the problem we cannot SCORE.  4-1 loss, 4-1 loss, 5-3 loss (best game in a long time!), 3-0 loss, 6-2 loss.... 

 

Even if Cam was in he'd be losing these games too and we'd be talking about how much he sucked.  Not all of this is on the netminders. I'm not saying that Peters and Ellis are playing "great" because no, they are sucking it up, but any goalie in the league would be losing with this team in front of them.  Even Broduer needs the team to score at least ONE.  

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But more than the goalies is the problem we cannot SCORE.  4-1 loss, 4-1 loss, 5-3 loss (best game in a long time!), 3-0 loss, 6-2 loss.... 

 

Both sides of those scorelines indicate a problem, but giving up 22 goals in 5 games is definitely problem #1. 

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Both sides of those scorelines indicate a problem, but giving up 22 goals in 5 games is definitely problem #1. 

 

Yeah that's  true, but I think the goalies are being mismanaged which is leading to that.  The last couple of games, whether coming in in relief or starting and getting yanked, Peters is only seeing 6-7 shots a game.  He's never gonna get any better that way.  Is it any wonder he let in 2 goals on 5 shots last night? I mean, let him play the full game, maybe he turns it around, maybe we still lose 6-2 but he gets to see 25-30 SOG instead of just 6.  After both guys got shelled last night who in the world do you start tonight? Ellis technically took the loss, so do you go back to Peters? This is a mess.  

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So it really comes down to this... Our new goalie coach has helped who? With 3 goalies who have struggled this season any chance he comes back next season?

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What prompted Barrasso to leave for the KHL? Maurice have some compromising pictures of him or something? Think we're really missing him now. This team could really use one of those "goalie fellers" who don't let the puck in the net like a Pee Wee B Team back-up. By my numbers both of our "goalies" have had about an 80% save percentage the last several games. Not going to cut it in the NHL as evidenced by this great run we're on. A real shut down defenseman wouldn't hurt either.

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Giguere just blasted his team for having thrown in the towel.  I say trade Peters for Giguere for the rest of the season. At least our guys are trying.



So it really comes down to this... Our new goalie coach has helped who? With 3 goalies who have struggled this season any chance he comes back next season?

Our new goalie coach is really our old goalie coach (pre and post Barasso).

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Which explain our consistency issues, Irbe and Weekes we're up down all around and at least Weekes constantly lost his composure in the 3rd period letting up duds.

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Even if Cam was in he'd be losing these games too and we'd be talking about how much he sucked.  Not all of this is on the netminders. I'm not saying that Peters and Ellis are playing "great" because no, they are sucking it up, but any goalie in the league would be losing with this team in front of them.  Even Broduer needs the team to score at least ONE.  

 

I think this pretty much sums it up for the past few years. I can't really make a decision on any of our current goaltenders without seeing a decent defense in front of them. Early in the season, our D was playing good enough to win (mainly because E. Staal's line was scoring like crazy). Ward and Faulk go down and now there's a tiny black hole that formed in the back of our net and pucks are just getting sucked into it left and right. It also appears to have enough pull at the other side of the rink to keep the pucks from going into the opponent's net too. 

 

I really truly hope that our main focus is defense this offseason. Even if we don't touch goaltending, I think we really need to make a move towards defensive minded defensemen. Supposedly we have a boat load of "offensive" defensemen, but let's be honest, they're not really putting up too many more points than a stay at home guy would, and the points they do put up are canceled out by the points they let in. So the clear area of focus for me is the blue line. Our goalies are "good enough" at the moment and maybe we make a few moves for the bottom 6. Gonna stop myself here since most of this belongs in another thread. 

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OK Ellis and Peters are as good as gone.  Are the goalies for the Checkers capable of making the NHL?  Are there any free agent goalies willing to play "second banana" to Ward? If so what is their asking price?

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I like Ellis and I think he can be somewhere between the first 10 games Ellis and what we have seen over the last couple of weeks. If we can get another one-year deal on the cheap, why wouldn't we sign him?

 

Justin Peters is a good goalie, but the NHL just gets between his ears.

 

I'm just fine with Cam Ward.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I like Ellis and I think he can be somewhere between the first 10 games Ellis and what we have seen over the last couple of weeks. If we can get another one-year deal on the cheap, why wouldn't we sign him?

 

 

Don't know  Based on his record over the past month or so I wouldn't sign him.   Is he injured?  Or is he just in a slump?

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I would easily re-sign Ellis. He would be a great backup for Ward. He was outstanding the beginning of the season. After all the injuries, and then his, he looks rattled.

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I would easily re-sign Ellis. He would be a great backup for Ward. He was outstanding the beginning of the season. After all the injuries, and then his, he looks rattled.

 

The one thing that has been popping up with Ellis is he's shown some typical goalie "odd duck weirdness."  Given that he called out the team, and then was silent on himself, I'm not sure what kind of team player he is.

 

As for his play, I'm giving him a break right now in post-injury.  I think the injury is lingering.

 

Those "in the know" should have a better handle on all of this.

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