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Greg-N-Ral

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Cam can't bail us out anymore...Sanguinetti and Pitkanen's sloppy play aren't helping either...but yah, I'd love to see what Ellis has between the pipes for us. I say let him start the home game tomorrow and give Cam the start on Friday.

Pitkanen?? I think you mean Corvo.

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I don't think there is much of a doubt he will start one of the two games against Buffalo.

Just testing quote format

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We will see Ellis in one of these next two games. Cam is rusty, but you know, so are a lot of other players right now. It's only been two games, and some pundits have said it could take two weeks for some teams to find their form. So, by Feb. 2nd (away game at Philly, 7th game of season) we should know where this team stands. Too early to panic yes, but I also agree time is not on our side, as it is for every other team this year. But, I'll start worrying after that Philly game if we're seeing the guys continue to play rough around the edges.

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I for one would love to see what Dan Ellis (NHL lifetime 2.68 GAA) could do with back-to-back starts starting Thursday night against Buffalo.

Cam's save% is LESS THAN 79% this season and while he's not totally to blame for all the goals he's allowed, he certainly has not been doing us any favors in goal.

We all know what Cam can do when he's HOT (circa 2006), but thinking Cam is an ELITE TOP-5 NHL goalie is just not grounded in facts. Cam's lifetime GAA is 2.75 (vs. Ellis' 2.68).

I agree with ya 100% but all I can tell you is, us very few skeptics of Cam will get blasted more than Cam does in net. It's always someone elses fault not Cams,, so I see that you are kindof a newer member here so I ( probably the biggest Cam blaster) am warning you get ready for a lot of excuse's for Cam! WELCOME ABOARD

I hope Ellis plays at the top of his game and gets the Canes as many wins he can!

Edited by djharley

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Nobody is blasting anybody, DJ. Everyone has their own opinions. Just because we may disagree, it doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. But everyone can agree that we're frustrated with the results so far.

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I agree w/ starting Ellis. Not because he's the long term answer, but because he's been playing. Many goalies that have been out of game play are struggling. Cam certainly is. Though not as bad as his stats. Sloppy dplay and turnovers have been part of it.

Cam had an off year last year. Of course the team did, especially early on.

But the year before last Cam was the #3 goalie in the NHL in wins, and #4 in save percentage. Goals against will never be fair when he faces the most shots in the NHL and the most quality scoring chances. Oh, and he was one of 6 All Star goalies.

Lots of experts who know this stuff inside and out, including insiders from other teams consider Cam elite.

But he is not in form and we can't just tick off losses until he gets there.

Give Ellis some starts, mix Cam in. Have a 10 game plan where Ellis and Ward split them. Then reassess. If Cam is back in form, change it to 3:1 Cam or 5:1 if Ellis struggles.

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Didn't Ellis have some game experience in the AHL with the Checkers? Granted there is no comparison with the two leagues but it is some experience. With no pee-season games how many games will it take for Ward to get into game shape physically and mentally?

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I agree w/ starting Ellis. Not because he's the long term answer, but because he's been playing. Many goalies that have been out of game play are struggling. Cam certainly is. Though not as bad as his stats. Sloppy dplay and turnovers have been part of it.

Cam had an off year last year. Of course the team did, especially early on.

But the year before last Cam was the #3 goalie in the NHL in wins, and #4 in save percentage. Goals against will never be fair when he faces the most shots in the NHL and the most quality scoring chances. Oh, and he was one of 6 All Star goalies.

Lots of experts who know this stuff inside and out, including insiders from other teams consider Cam elite.

But he is not in form and we can't just tick off losses until he gets there.

Give Ellis some starts, mix Cam in. Have a 10 game plan where Ellis and Ward split them. Then reassess. If Cam is back in form, change it to 3:1 Cam or 5:1 if Ellis struggles.

Just as you want to discount Cam's GAA because of the shots and scoring chances he faces then you also need to discount the # of wins per season because he starts 10 - 20 more games than most starting goalies - winning % would be a better stat.

And let's be honest the only reason Cam was named an All Star is because the game was in Raleigh. In 6 years as a starter how many other All star games has he been selected to.

Ellis needs to get some time and I agree with your analysis of how to mix the two and reevaluate in 10 games or so.

We cannot blindly follow Cam just because he has always been #1 with no competition.

Cam is not "elite" but he is a top goalie in the next tier below elite status. I am a huge supporter of his but he is very overrated by many Canes fans.

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Just as you want to discount Cam's GAA because of the shots and scoring chances he faces then you also need to discount the # of wins per season because he starts 10 - 20 more games than most starting goalies - winning % would be a better stat.

And let's be honest the only reason Cam was named an All Star is because the game was in Raleigh. In 6 years as a starter how many other All star games has he been selected to.

Wins is indeed a tough stat since so much also depends on goal support at the other end of the ice, starts, and defense.

However, it's not just me discounting the GAA. It's pretty much common sense for a guy who sees more shots than anyone else. (And I'll bet more point blank chances too).

That leaves only save %. And of goalies getting 50 starts or more, two years ago Cam was number 4. That's not getting the All Star game just because he was in Raleigh.

Now getting picked first in the All Star game is another story.grin.gif

Last night Forslund said there are more than 20 teams in the league that would trade #1 goalies with us straight up right now today.

Ellis had one spectacular year, then fell pretty far, pretty fast.

At least we can agree that we should use more Ellis early on.

Edited by remkin

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On the flip side, we had 40 shots on Theodore, and close to 40 on caron, so the offense is due to erupt.. I believe Ellis tomorrow night, cammer friday in slugsville..

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I look at save % instead of GAA, GAA is a team stat, Broduer is a future HOFer no doubt,and is a legend and icon of the position,but he has played behind some very talented Dmen in New Jersey,not to mention a conservative defensive style of sitting on a 1-2 goal lead,granted you have to have a solid goalie to make that work,but Broduer wasnt seeing 30-40 shots a game

Cam is an elite goaltender,when he is on,however what he has struggled with is consistency,and some games he is not consistent from period to period. That is why he is never on Canadas olympic roster,and thats why he rarely makes the all-star game,but most experts consider him a top 15 goalie

And you cant take the 06 cup run away from him,anybody from that team would tell you they couldnt have done it without him,the comeback against the Habs,the near sweep of the Devils,The game 7 win against the Sabres,and the series against the Oilers,were he made some insane saves,anybody from that team will also tell you that Cam was the hero of that run.

Cam has been terrible so far,8 Goals in 4 periods in net,thats a GAA of 6.00 and a save% of 78,have any of you ever seen the movie "Miracle", "That is my net" "they scored 10 goals,its everybodys net", sometimes benching a player for a while will force there pride to make them get better,thats why I say we should give Ellis both Sabre games. And if he does well,then we have to go with the hot hand in this short season,we need wins now!!!with it being an open battle all season

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On the flip side, we had 40 shots on Theodore, and close to 40 on caron, so the offense is due to erupt.. I believe Ellis tomorrow night, cammer friday in slugsville..

That means nothing. A lot of those shots are crap shots from 20 feet out. They are not high quality shots.

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Ward has always been a slow starter, as have the Canes in general. If they don't fix this, it will be as it has been. I hope Muller has a plan. I expected he would, but it isn't working yet. Gotta give em a a week or two to get going, though.

As for Ellis, he could get hot again, especially since he's been playing. Very thankful he picked him up, though I suspect Peters would be OK too since he's been playing regularly in the AHL. I don't think Peters is ever going to adjust to NHL backup, but Ellis very well could.

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cam gets bombed in the first, pull his rear end then and there. stop the bleeding. if he can hold the game close, fine. otherwise taking my friends to games where we are 4 down is not going get them to the ra ra ra protocanianc stage.

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Dan Ellis looked fantastic in net last night!!

By way of comparison, so far this year, with the same team in front of them,

and having played a similar number of minutes (140 vs 100),

here's what Ward and Ellis have done for us so far::

Ellis - 96% save pct vs. Cam Ward - 84% ===> advantage Ellis

Ellis - 1.20 GAA vs. Cam Ward - 4.71 GAA ===> advantage Ellis

Ellis - 1-0 record vs. Cam Ward - 1-2 record ====> advantage Ellis

Conclusion: TIme to give Dan Ellis those back-to-back starts!!

I for one want Ellis in goal Monday night against Boston.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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Wow the defense played well, the offense got 3 goals, we win!!!! I wonder what the difference was? I wonder who starts against the B's ?

Edited by winger52

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Stellar performance by Dan Ellis. Cam and Dan should be a great tandem this season.

Indeed. It'll be very interesting to see how both are used now that Ellis has had two solid performances. I know some will call for Cam's head but he's never had anyone of this caliber to challenge him like this before now. We've all seen what Cam is capable of and with Ellis breathing down his back hungry to re-establish himself as a starting NHL goalie, I think Cam will raise his game up and find the consistency he's been lacking. At least I'm hopeful he will.

Ellis is in mid season form since he's been playing, Cam will need a few more games to get there. Problem is we don't have a few games to spare so I don't envy Kirk Muller and Greg Stefan and the decisions they need to make.

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But he is not in form and we can't just tick off losses until he gets there.

Give Ellis some starts, mix Cam in. Have a 10 game plan where Ellis and Ward split them. Then reassess. If Cam is back in form, change it to 3:1 Cam or 5:1 if Ellis struggles.

To quote myself.

Of course that was before Ellis pretty much won that game for us. Still, I would follow that plan. Basically tell Cam and Ellis, "This is the plan. Since this is a shortened season and compacted, we are going to take the next 10 games and just alternate. After 10 games, we'll reassess. Cam is still the number one, but rested goalies will be a huge advantage for us, and Dan has shown he's up to it."

Cam looked pretty good last time out, but Ellis was on fire last night.

Boston? Hard as it is to say after last night, I'd still give it to Cam. If not, too big a gap between starts and he might regress. Give Ellis Ottawa, Cam Philly, Ellis Toronto, Cam Ottawa (also lets Ottawa see different goalies), Ellis Philly, Cam NYI, Ellis NJ, Cam Toronto (see Ottawa).

Then there is a 3 day break to reassess. Who is playing better? If it's equal go 8 more in tandem.

Making Cam the back up would be fraught w/ problems.

Even if Cam emerges though, we should use Ellis much much more than we've used the back up in the past.

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Making Cam the back up would be fraught w/ problems.

Even if Cam emerges though, we should use Ellis much much more than we've used the back up in the past.

Couldn't agree more.

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IMO to early to start the hot hand stuff. Confidence is a big deal with goal keepers. Ellis is coming off two good showings and his confidence isn't going to wane. He knows his role and is hungry to prove he still has it. But Cam is our number 1. Its his spot to lose. He is coming off a better showing after those two awful starts. He has something to prove. If you start Ellis you send a clear message to Cam that he isn't top dog anymore. You start Cam against Boston unless Muller sees something in practice that says he can't go.

It is a nice luxury to have two steady goalies. Lets not muck it up with head games.

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IMO Ellis looked very good last night (and in FL). He was so calm and controlled in the net, not flip-floping around like Peters and Boucher. His style of play seems very comparable to Cam's style ... must be great for the goaltending coach. As others have said, Cam looks rusty and will need to play himself into game shape. Both goalies have given up some juicy rebounds but luckily the defense has cleared them away the last couple of games...definitely need to work on that plus Ward's reaction time. Think Muller can feel comfortable with either guy.

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And Cam got the starts after Gerber got over the flu because.....? Hot handed goalie. Sometimes in sports a coach realized his career 500 goalie, who is known for his slow starts, may not be the way to go in a shortened season.

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