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Greg-N-Ral

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I still believe in Cam. Maybe it just takes him longer to get it going after coming back from injury. I really thought the D in front of him for the the early part of the game I saw was bad. No one clearing the crease, too much time and space etc. I'm glad coach left him in and we got a point.

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I still believe in Cam. Maybe it just takes him longer to get it going after coming back from injury. ....

or maybe he really isn;t an "elite" (top-5 NHL) goalie like Tripp says he is.

Maybe, just maybe he's HIGHLY over paid and he's not the same guy that got hot for about 15 games as a rookie, back in 2006; before the league figured him out.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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I'm not saying to trade Cam but at some point the excuses have to stop. He's rusty, he was screened, the D didn't do their job, it was a tip, bad bounce etc... These stats are not good. Whether it is any or all of the above there is a trend that is not a positive one.

 

 

Cam Ward's Last Five Starts

Date      Game                       Result   Saves  Shots Save Percentage

Nov. 27 Hurricanes at Devils 4-3 W      19       22       .864

Nov. 29 Devils at Hurricanes 2-5 L        26       31       .839

Dec. 1 Canucks at Hurricanes 2-3 L      27      30        .900 

Dec. 6 Sharks at Hurricanes 5-3 W       22       25        .880

Dec. 10 Hurricanes at Oilers 4-5 OTL    24       29       .828

Edited by slapshot02

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I'm not saying to trade Cam but at some point the excuses have to stop. He's rusty, he was screened, the D didn't do their job, it was a tip, bad bounce etc... 

 

Are you serious? That's exactly how you score goals in this league... I can't help but feel like you're trolling with this comment.

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With the goaltender talk heating up again for obvious reasons, I'd like to ask a pretty simple question: for those who regularly blame and hate on Cam Ward, do you actually watch the goals that we score on other goaltenders across the league? There's no difference. Our skaters aren't scoring more skillful goals. They're getting tips, screens, lucky rebounds, and fluke goals. This is the nature of the NHL and happens in EVERY game. Stop living in a bubble and acting like Cam Ward is the only goaltender who gets beat from point blank by Taylor Hall, RNH, when a guy (in this case Joensuu) is ALONE in front of the net or back door on a power play. Maybe he stops Yakupov, but let's not forget he's a first overall pick, natural goal scorer. He walked in alone, used Hainsey as a partial screen and got a hard, fast shot off as soon as the pass got to his stick. There's nothing soft about that goal other than Hainsey not covering him better. 

 

When Skinner or one of the Staals scores a goal like these, it's because they were "good," when one happens to us it's because whoever was in goal is "bad." 

 

With that out of the way, I agree that Cam Ward has work to do to find consistency. It's obvious he's fighting it, but trading him is not the answer, and will most likely not happen unless there's a really good hockey deal to be made. 

The main reason he is to blame is because he has been the #1 goalie since after winning the cup. And where has this team been since then? Yep the playoffs only 1 time since! How can you have confidence in a player that is not consistent and should be getting better every year, not end up out of the playoffs every year but 1! Just look at the other night,( Oilers Game) Cam gave up  4 goals in a short period of time, and what does the team do,, makes a huge comeback and where do the Canes end up,,yes another loss, yes I know there was a bad call on Faulk but Cam was so far out of position, the  Oiler player had 2 hacks at the puck and Cam didn't get back over to make the save. When in the last many years has Cam bailed out the team instead of the team having to try and bail out Cam. He is the most common denominator with the entire team on the ice and off and where are we again? Being a 500% team doesn't get you into the playoffs! Yes I know #12 Staal is the only other player from the 06 season but he doesn't only have 1 job(stopping the puck in 1 area) like a goaltender does! If Cam was on another team with his record and stats would you want to trade for him or not??  I bet/think not!!  This isn't against your opinion,or comments or you personally, its just  me as a fan of the Canes just giving a different side/opinion, so hopefully the entire team gets better and we can all start posting how good they are instead of where we have been over the last many seasons!! :usa:  :thumbsup:

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or maybe he really isn;t an "elite" (top-5 NHL) goalie like Tripp says he is.

Maybe, just maybe he's HIGHLY over paid and he's not the same guy that got hot for about 15 games as a rookie, back in 2006; before the league figured him out.

Well said,, I agree with ya 1000000000000000000%

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Are you serious? That's exactly how you score goals in this league... I can't help but feel like you're trolling with this comment.

No trolling intended, I was only posting stats. It seems that everytime Cam gives up a goal one of the previous statements are made. I very rarely hear "that is a goal Cam would like back"  So are you stating that these stats were all great goals that Cam had no chance on?

Nov. 27 Hurricanes at Devils 4-3 W 19 22 .864

Nov. 29 Devils at Hurricanes 2-5 L 26 31 .839

Dec. 1 Canucks at Hurricanes 2-3 L 27 30 .900

Dec. 6 Sharks at Hurricanes 5-3 W 22 25 .880

Dec. 10 Hurricanes at Oilers 4-5 OTL 24 29 .828

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The main reason he is to blame is because he has been the #1 goalie since after winning the cup. And where has this team been since then? Yep the playoffs only 1 time since! How can you have confidence in a player that is not consistent and should be getting better every year, not end up out of the playoffs every year but 1! Just look at the other night,( Oilers Game) Cam gave up  4 goals in a short period of time, and what does the team do,, makes a huge comeback and where do the Canes end up,,yes another loss, yes I know there was a bad call on Faulk but Cam was so far out of position, the  Oiler player had 2 hacks at the puck and Cam didn't get back over to make the save. When in the last many years has Cam bailed out the team instead of the team having to try and bail out Cam. He is the most common denominator with the entire team on the ice and off and where are we again? Being a 500% team doesn't get you into the playoffs! Yes I know #12 Staal is the only other player from the 06 season but he doesn't only have 1 job(stopping the puck in 1 area) like a goaltender does! If Cam was on another team with his record and stats would you want to trade for him or not??  I bet/think not!!  This isn't against your opinion,or comments or you personally, its just  me as a fan of the Canes just giving a different side/opinion, so hopefully the entire team gets better and we can all start posting how good they are instead of where we have been over the last many seasons!! :usa:  :thumbsup:

 

No, I actually agree with a lot of what you said. Cam should be better and should be more consistent, he is definitely struggling this season, no doubt, but in no way is he the reason this team hasn't made the playoffs year after year.

 

Consistency is really the biggest thing for the entire team. It's been that way for years. I don't think we've ever really had a line-up as strong as we do now (since the cup anyway). We've had atrocious defenses up until this season, and I've watched a better version of Cam Ward bail them out time and again. This year the defense is bailing our goaltenders out on most nights. But the defense still has it's bad games, and they seem to be in front of Ward for whatever reason. There needs to be a balance. The truth is, we can win with any of the 3 goaltenders we have but it's a team game more than anything. If you're not scoring, you're not making saves, or you're not playing good defense on any given night, you'll probably lose in this league.

 

We're still in a playoff spot.

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No trolling intended, I was only posting stats. It seems that everytime Cam gives up a goal one of the previous statements are made. I very rarely hear "that is a goal Cam would like back"  So are you stating that these stats were all great goals that Cam had no chance on?

Nov. 27 Hurricanes at Devils 4-3 W 19 22 .864

Nov. 29 Devils at Hurricanes 2-5 L 26 31 .839

Dec. 1 Canucks at Hurricanes 2-3 L 27 30 .900

Dec. 6 Sharks at Hurricanes 5-3 W 22 25 .880

Dec. 10 Hurricanes at Oilers 4-5 OTL 24 29 .828

 

Most of the time that I post my comments about a game, I generally go through it goal by goal. I have said plenty of times that "Cam should have made this save" or "would like that one back." I'm not going to go through all of these games again, but I'm sure if you go through the GDT's from those games, I probably had a pretty good analysis of each one. 

 

I'm not arguing that Cam is playing like a superstar, but the amount of heat he gets for some of the goals against is absurd at this point. These are extremely common NHL goals in most cases where the offensive players make a good play. It's not necessarily lack of skill by the goaltender, it's physics.

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Most of the time that I post my comments about a game, I generally go through it goal by goal. I have said plenty of times that "Cam should have made this save" or "would like that one back." I'm not going to go through all of these games again, but I'm sure if you go through the GDT's from those games, I probably had a pretty good analysis of each one. 

 

I'm not arguing that Cam is playing like a superstar, but the amount of heat he gets for some of the goals against is absurd at this point. These are extremely common NHL goals in most cases where the offensive players make a good play. It's not necessarily lack of skill by the goaltender, it's physics.

 

 

Most of the time that I post my comments about a game, I generally go through it goal by goal. I have said plenty of times that "Cam should have made this save" or "would like that one back." I'm not going to go through all of these games again, but I'm sure if you go through the GDT's from those games, I probably had a pretty good analysis of each one. 

 

I'm not arguing that Cam is playing like a superstar, but the amount of heat he gets for some of the goals against is absurd at this point. These are extremely common NHL goals in most cases where the offensive players make a good play. It's not necessarily lack of skill by the goaltender, it's physics.

I am not a Cam hater never have been. If I was I'd sell my signed Cam Jersey. If as  you say "it's physics" , Physics will have our boys playing golf early this year unless his save % improves drastically. 

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I am not a Cam hater never have been. If I was I'd sell my signed Cam Jersey. If as  you say "it's physics" , Physics will have our boys playing golf early this year unless his save % improves drastically. 

 

I mean how do physically react to a tip fast enough to make a save? Or react fast enough if someone's blocking your view of the shot/puck. Goalies rely on anticipation, positioning, luck just as much as they rely on their reflexes. With a good screen, sometimes all they have to go by is the sound of the stick hitting the ice/puck on a shot. A 70+ MPH shot from well out that you can't see can easily find the net. Best thing they can do is to get the right position and hope they find it or it finds them. The best thing to do is stop the shot from happening altogether, or make it easier for the goalie to see (defense).

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to say Cam Ward is doing fine. I wholeheartedly agree that he needs to be better. He seems slow - he seems off most games, but he's not the sole reason we're losing games. 

 

His season save percentage is .901 in 16 games played. Compare this to other "good" goalies:

 

C. Crawford: .907 (27 Games Played - Currently Injured)

His team is currently first in the league in points. They also won the cup last year after not losing in regulation for straight games.

 

J. Quick: .905 (16 Games Played - Currently Injured)

Cup winner from a couple years ago. Kings are 3rd in the league in points.

 

M. Brodeur .898 (18 Games Played)

Legendary goalie. I give him a pass for being old, but he's still really good at what he does.

 

C. Anderson .895 (20 Games Played)

Looked like a superstar last season and finished with a .941.

 

If this doesn't stress to this forum the importance of the team game, I don't know what will. Two of the top three teams in the league have goaltenders with similar save percentages as Cam Ward. Why are their teams still good and leading the league in points if their goaltending is so weak? Could it be that the outcome of the game depends on more than just the goalie and his save percentage?

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Gejustin, you have totally missed the intent of my post. I wasn't looking at Cam's play for the entire year, I am fully aware of screens, tips, bad bounces, goalie positioning, physics, etc. I wasn't comparing Cam's performance against our other two goalies or anyone else in the NHL.The point was that Cam's save percentage and win percentage over the last 5 games is a trend that I don't want to see continue. It appears that you may be the one trolling to get into a discussion regarding Ward. If anyone is happy with the last 5 game performance, then making the playoffs is not a priority. Again The stats below werelast 5 games.

 

 

Cam Ward's Last Five Starts

Date Game Result Saves Shots Save Percentage

Nov. 27 Hurricanes at Devils 4-3 W 19 22 .864

Nov. 29 Devils at Hurricanes 2-5 L 26 31 .839

Dec. 1 Canucks at Hurricanes 2-3 L 27 30 .900

Dec. 6 Sharks at Hurricanes 5-3 W 22 25 .880

Dec. 10 Hurricanes at Oilers 4-5 OTL 24 29 .828

 

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I mean how do physically react to a tip fast enough to make a save? Or react fast enough if someone's blocking your view of the shot/puck. Goalies rely on anticipation, positioning, luck just as much as they rely on their reflexes. With a good screen, sometimes all they have to go by is the sound of the stick hitting the ice/puck on a shot. A 70+ MPH shot from well out that you can't see can easily find the net. Best thing they can do is to get the right position and hope they find it or it finds them. The best thing to do is stop the shot from happening altogether, or make it easier for the goalie to see (defense).

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to say Cam Ward is doing fine. I wholeheartedly agree that he needs to be better. He seems slow - he seems off most games, but he's not the sole reason we're losing games. 

 

His season save percentage is .901 in 16 games played. Compare this to other "good" goalies:

 

C. Crawford: .907 (27 Games Played - Currently Injured)

His team is currently first in the league in points. They also won the cup last year after not losing in regulation for straight games.

 

J. Quick: .905 (16 Games Played - Currently Injured)

Cup winner from a couple years ago. Kings are 3rd in the league in points.

 

M. Brodeur .898 (18 Games Played)

Legendary goalie. I give him a pass for being old, but he's still really good at what he does.

 

C. Anderson .895 (20 Games Played)

Looked like a superstar last season and finished with a .941.

 

If this doesn't stress to this forum the importance of the team game, I don't know what will. Two of the top three teams in the league have goaltenders with similar save percentages as Cam Ward. Why are their teams still good and leading the league in points if their goaltending is so weak? Could it be that the outcome of the game depends on more than just the goalie and his save percentage?

You answered your own question. It's mostly positioning and anticipation. Cam has been horrendous positioning wise lately. He attacks the shooter this season, plays well out of his crease. Sometimes it works, but a lot of the team the defense bails him out by getting the puck before they opposing player and moves it away while Cam rushes back to the crease. Last night, the game winner, that was poor positioning mixed with slow reaction time. He got bailed out by Sekera initially, and instead of sliding over to where the puck is and shut the door after that, he stayed on the wrong side of the net for some ungodly reason. 

Cam was a good goalie. This season he hasn't been. He can make amazing saves, but he need to focus on making the right saves and stopping more pucks. His Save % is terrible. His GAA is terrible. His stats are garbage this season. That doesn't make him terrible, it makes he performance this season terrible. I can fully understand why people want him traded. I don't agree with it completely, but if management did move him I think it would greatly help the team rather than hurt it. If Peters and Khudobin falter (doubt it) we have 20 mill in space to get a new #1 goalie if we had to.

 

Yes he has been victim to tough goals against, but are you saying Peters and Khudobin haven't seen those shots? They have and have vastly superior stats over Cam. I see your reasoning, but I don't agree with it at all. Peters and Khudobin have seen those shots and stopped them. Cam sees those shots and more often then not, they go in. Your reasoning to me seems like excuses based on this. It's not like only Cam is seeing these tips, deflections, screens, etc. You make it seem like that.

 

I still doubt he goes anywhere, but I don't doubt if he continues to suck and next season he hasn't improved, we may be wishing we did try to move him.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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SuckaPunchd, one of Cam's bad trends is that he loves to rely on his glove while being out of position. There have been many times where the glove should not of even come into the play. He believes the glove is one of his biggest assets, but when he plays well it is his sound positioning that makes him a good goalie.

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Yes he has been victim to tough goals against, but are you saying Peters and Khudobin haven't seen those shots? They have and have vastly superior stats over Cam. I see your reasoning, but I don't agree with it at all. Peters and Khudobin have seen those shots and stopped them. Cam sees those shots and more often then not, they go in. Your reasoning to me seems like excuses based on this. It's not like only Cam is seeing these tips, deflections, screens, etc. You make it seem like that.

I'm not making excuses for anybody. I've said at least 5 times now that Cam needs to be better. And I never said Peters didn't see the same kind of shots, but if you've watched the games closely this season, you can't even debate how much better the defense has been in the games that Peters has played in. My point was that it's a team game and you can't continuously blame the goaltender for losses. If wins and losses were completely based around save percentage, Chicago would be awful and not at the top of the league. 

 

Also, despite his abysmal save percentage, Cam Ward has earned us MORE points in the standings than Peters. They've played the same number of games.

 

I'm not trying to defend Cam Ward or bring down Peters, I'm simply saying that the discussion around save percentage that has existed on this board is pointless. Cam Ward has struggled, his save percentage is low, but we have more points with him in net? What matters more when they decide what teams are in the playoffs: save percentage or points in the standings?

 

Cam needs to be better, yes, but the TEAM is losing games as a unit. You can be at the top of the league with a .907 save percentage. 

Edited by Gejustin

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Yes he has been victim to tough goals against, but are you saying Peters and Khudobin haven't seen those shots? They have and have vastly superior stats over Cam. I see your reasoning, but I don't agree with it at all. Peters and Khudobin have seen those shots and stopped them. Cam sees those shots and more often then not, they go in. Your reasoning to me seems like excuses based on this. It's not like only Cam is seeing these tips, deflections, screens, etc. You make it seem like that.

I'm not making excuses for anybody. I've said at least 5 times now that Cam needs to be better. And I never said Peters didn't see the same kind of shots, but if you've watched the games closely this season, you can't even debate how much better the defense has been in the games that Peters has played in. My point was that it's a team game and you can't continuously blame the goaltender for losses. If wins and losses were completely based around save percentage, Chicago would be awful and not at the top of the league. 

 

Also, despite his abysmal save percentage, Cam Ward has earned us MORE points in the standings than Peters. They've played the same number of games.

 

I'm not trying to defend Cam Ward or bring down Peters, I'm simply saying that the discussion around save percentage that has existed on this board is pointless. Cam Ward has struggled, his save percentage is low, but we have more points with him in net? What matters more when they decide what teams are in the playoffs: save percentage or points in the standings?

 

Cam needs to be better, yes, but the TEAM is losing games as a unit. You can be at the top of the league with a .907 save percentage. 

I never blamed any losses on any goaltender. I talked about how Cam is underperforming.

 

Cam's record is 5-5-5. He's gotten us 15 of our 31 points. About half. Peters and Khudobin have helped the team just as much (technically more) if you want to go down this route. And for a starter, you don't want to be less then or equal to points gained in the standings with our backup(s).

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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I never blamed any losses on any goaltender. I talked about how Cam is underperforming.

 

Never said that you did. But that's the theme on this board, it's wrong and it's gotten old. 

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Not that I'm any kind of moderator, but don't we have another thread for goalie arguments? 

 

 

Buuuuuttt, as long as we're on it. Cam needs to play better. The question is will he? I say yes, mostly based on his mechanics, comments of some experts I respect, and what he did in 2010-11 when he put up very nice numbers behind an O'lay defense, and really good runs he's had after settling in post injuries. 

 

I will confess to my Cam detracting posting friends, so far, he has not been at his best. 

 

My prediction is he will return to 10-11 form. I could be wrong. Only time will tell. Better for everyone if he does.

 

Is he playing tonight?

Edited by remkin

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http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_news.htm?id=695590

Peters is playing remarkably well this month, stopping 70 of his past 74 shots. He has a 2.26 GAA and .924 save percentage in 14 games, including a 4-2-1 record on home ice with a 1.67 GAA and .941 save percentage. Even in his eight losses, Peters still has a .906 save percentage. He made 43 saves in a 4-3 loss in Detroit on Nov. 21, and then stopped 24 of 25 shots in a 2-0 loss to the Vancouver Canucks on Dec. 9.

Meanwhile, Ward has given up three goals or more in each of his past five games, including 11 goals on his past 84 shots, a .869 save percentage. He was just 2-2-1 in November with a 2.99 GAA and .904 save percentage, and his 0-5 record in overtime games has frustrated his fantasy owners as well.

Gah, if our offense would just show up when Pete's in net....

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I've for the most part have stayed out of the goalie controversy debate because I remember the Goalie Discussion Wars of 2002, 2003, etc, where it got ugly, personal and even racist.  From Sean Burke and Trevor Kidd to Arturs irbe and Kevin Weekes to Cam Ward and Justin Peters. I've seen this discussion all over the league. Fleury was ready to be run out of town after last season's playoff gaffes by the fans. Luongo was set to be traded because Schnieder was threatening his time in net to give a couple examples. You see it with every team.

 

Goaltenders are a weird bunch. I've played the position. They are the only players who are crazy enough to want to stand in front of 90+ mph slap shots or a player bearing down on them on a break away knowing that there is a possibility that a 200+ lb skater could barrel into him. It is also one of the hardest positions to play in any professional sport.  They are the last line of defense, and not unlike a football quarterback, get either all the glory for a stupid save, or all the blame for letting in a stupid goal.

 

Is Peters playing out of his mind right now? Not even going to dispute this, its a fact. Something has finally clicked with him and he is making the best of the situation.  Whether or not he remains a Hurricane/Checker is not up for discussion. If he doesn't make it here, he will somewhere else and he is a very capable backup who probably would thrive in a system where both goalies split play in net around 50% of the time. Not even going to address Khudobin, mostly because of the small sampling of games he played before going down with injury. The book on Peters is rebound control. He just doesn't swallow up shots that hit him and doesn't direct shots away from the sweet spots on the ice consistently. Position wise, he is solid. His glove is average. His puck handling is above average. He is very comfortable in setting up a stretch pass through the neutral zone while the other team is changing. For some reason, the team seems to be playing better defense in front of Peters, which is the reason we are scoring less per game than with Cam in net.

 

Is Cam playing bad right now? Not even going to dispute this, its a fact.  His confidence looks to be at an all time low and it is affecting his time in net.  I even noticed last night Cam yawning when they did a quick shot of the bench in the 3rd period. Cam is an OLD SCHOOL goalie, where the more he plays, the better.  He seems to need the heavy workload to be consistent in his play (ala Broduer). The book on Cam is at times, he can be beat 5 hole and high glove.  Rebound control has improved over the years.  His directing of shots to the corners out of harms ways is above average.  Positioning, solid.  He is not real comfortable in playing the puck for a break out, but at times will. Does not take chances.

 

Do you supplant Peters for Ward?  Statistically, yes. Numbers don't lie.

Cam Ward
December      1(win) 1(Loss) 1(OTL) 3.66(GAA) .869(SV%)
On the Road  3(Win) 1(Loss) 2(OTL) 3.43(GAA) .885(SV%)
In Wins          5(Win) 0(Loss) 0(OTL) 2.40(GAA) .910(SV%)
In Losses      0(Win) 5(Loss) 5(OTL) 3.37(GAA) .898(SV%)

 

Justin Peters
December      2(Win) 1(Loss) 1(OTL) 1.47(GAA) .942(SV%)
On the Road  2(Win) 6(Loss) 1(OTL) 2.68(GAA) .913(SV%)
In Wins          6(Win) 0(Loss) 0(OTL) 1.14(GAA) .957(SV%)
In Losses      0(Win) 8(Loss) 2(OTL) 2.90(GAA) .909(SV%)

Will Peters lead the Canes to the playoffs? Too early to say. Will Cam? Too early to say.
Will Peters come down to Earth? More than likely. Law of averages. In my opinion, they need to play Cam. There are 7 games left in December.  If Cam is to regain any measure of his confidence and ability, you play him the remaining games in December. You already know what you will get out of Peters. Unfortunately, there can be only one!

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Disagree....play your hot goalie, end of story.

 Agree 100%! Peters was in net for 3 goals in two games. Cam gave up 5 in one game. They have to play the guy that gives them the best chance to win, and,right now, that is Peters.

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aren't both Dobby and Peters UFAs at the end of year. since Peters most likely will not be resigned do the Canes try and see what trade value he has?  what sort of game experience do they give Dobby to prove he has recovered from his injury?  in terms of trading Ward what team would be willing to take on his massive contract given his level of play since winning the Cup?

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