Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
Sign in to follow this  
Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

Recommended Posts

I'm thinking Charlotte would have signed Muse regardless of the Canes situation.  Excerpts from the Checkers news release:

 

In 16 games this season, Muse, 25, has posted a 9-6-0 record to go along with a 2.29 goals-against average, .922 save percentage and two shutouts.

 

Among the franchise-record seven goalies that the team used for the first third of this season, Muse emerged as the top option still available to Charlotte, having been in net for every one of the team’s wins over the last two months. Checkers goaltenders not named John Muse have a combined 2-8-1 record with a 3.74 goals-against average and .865 save percentage. 

__________________________________________

 

Given that Mike Murphy has been less than sparkling (1-3 with a 3.89 goals-against average and .866 save percentage), and that apparently Muse passes the "eye test" (I've read that he's kept the Checkers in a couple of games that they eventually lost), I'm thinking that even if there was some way to return one of the Canes goalies to Charlotte, Muse looks like a better long term option for the franchise than Murphy.

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the update, LakeLivin. This just goes to once again illustrate how goalies' play seems to unpredictable, as I recall several years back, before he went off to Europe, how many on here were enamoured with Mike Murphy's potential! I think it also illustrates how cautious one has to be, in this present 3 goalie controversy, to jump on an untried tender, no matter how astronomical his "stats" might be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

    It would be the biggest mistake of JR's career to let Peters go.  Right now Peters wants to be our #1 goaltender, he is hungry for it. But he needs to work on his rebound control.  And you can see that he is working hard on controlling the rebounds.  When Peters was first called up from the checkers,  we all wondered what had happened to his play.  Because at first it didnt look good at all.  But he has kicked himself in the butt and has answered the call.  I dont know what has happened to Cam, I think he has become gun shy. Tired of be hurt every season.  And trading Cam could be the best thing for him.  He may just wake up and see he has to get with the program.  He is being paid a very large sum of money to do just one thing.  To stop pucks from getting in the net.  No more, No less.  In tomorrow nights game against the Caps,  I hope its Peters thats in the net.  And he is our best chance to get into the play offs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

    It would be the biggest mistake of JR's career to let Peters go.  Right now Peters wants to be our #1 goaltender, he is hungry for it. But he needs to work on his rebound control.  And you can see that he is working hard on controlling the rebounds.  When Peters was first called up from the checkers,  we all wondered what had happened to his play.  Because at first it didnt look good at all.  But he has kicked himself in the butt and has answered the call.  I dont know what has happened to Cam, I think he has become gun shy. Tired of be hurt every season.  And trading Cam could be the best thing for him.  He may just wake up and see he has to get with the program.  He is being paid a very large sum of money to do just one thing.  To stop pucks from getting in the net.  No more, No less.  In tomorrow nights game against the Caps,  I hope its Peters thats in the net.  And he is our best chance to get into the play offs.

 

Are you totally oblivious to the Justin Peters that we have seen in goal for the last few years?  His career record is 22-30, and by the way, that's a losing record.  He's had a good run of late, but it takes more than that in my mind to pronounce him the next big thing.  This crowd was ready to roll Ward out to the curb after 2 starts by Khudobin.  Now I'm all for riding him until the magic runs out, of for trading him for a good return.

 

By the way, I have seen enough NHL hockey to know that there are teams that go seasons with bad goaltending.   I can't imagine this crowd going through that.

Edited by super_dave_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be a huge steal for us, and they need goaltending help bad, and both

make about $6-mil per, but do you really think EDM management would give up Jordan Eberle for Cam Ward?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would trade him in a heartbeat! That would at least clear a lot of room/money to get some more good players! Would really like a different outcome at the end of the regular season. (NOT BEING ABLE TO WATCH THE CANES IN THE PLAYOFFS, LIKE WE HAVEN"T OTHER THAN 1 SEASON SINCE WINNING THE CUP) Been thru many different d-men, 3 different head coaches, different goalie coaches, only 1 player left on the team since the Cup other than Cam! ( E Staal) How many other different backup goalies? So what is the common denominator for letting pucks in the net??  He Has only gotten his team to the playoffs 1 time as the #1 goalie!! So with all the other many changes why not trade him as see where we go. Can't be much worse than it has been since 06!

 

You forgot one very important common denominator, even with all of those changes.. Those teams were not any good at all and were never going to make the playoffs with any goaltender. This team has been more inconsistent on offense, defense and on special teams over those years than it has been in goal. It's unbelievable that you actually think that one player is responsible for the team's playoffs fate every year. Absolutely unreal.

 

I posted this earlier but Corey Crawford has a .908 save percentage but is 17-6-3 and the Blackhawks are first place in the league. Peters has a .929 but is only 7-8-2 and we're barely hanging onto a playoff spot in the "weakest" division. 

 

Would someone from the anti-Ward camp explain to me how the Blackhawks are doing so well with such a "bad" goaltender? (Hint: I already know the answer.)

 

Just to be clear: I'm not saying Cam Ward is playing well right now, he's not, he needs to get it together, but he's not the reason this team loses. I'm saying that most of the reasons people here want to trade Cam (minus his contact, but that is what is is) are unjustified until the TEAM plays a consistent game. One game our offense can't get it done, the next our D can't, the next our goaltending is lacking. That's the real problem, not specific players.

Edited by Gejustin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF we could get a good return and IF Cam would waive his NTC, I'd listen to trade offers.   If nothing else, we'd have extra payroll, and Peters and Dobbin wouldn't be a bad 1-2 combo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF we could get a good return and IF Cam would waive his NTC, I'd listen to trade offers.   If nothing else, we'd have extra payroll, and Peters and Dobbin wouldn't be a bad 1-2 combo.

Yes exactly how I feel,(100%) free up 6.5 million to get a couple of players that may help the Canes move forward!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you totally oblivious to the Justin Peters that we have seen in goal for the last few years?  His career record is 22-30, and by the way, that's a losing record.  He's had a good run of late, but it takes more than that in my mind to pronounce him the next big thing.  This crowd was ready to roll Ward out to the curb after 2 starts by Khudobin.  Now I'm all for riding him until the magic runs out, of for trading him for a good return.

 

By the way, I have seen enough NHL hockey to know that there are teams that go seasons with bad goaltending.   I can't imagine this crowd going through that.

 

 

Since Nov. 5, Justin Peters has posted a 7-2-3 record, 1.63 GAA and .945 SV%. Among NHL goalies with at least eight games played

during that span, he ranks first in SV% and second in GAA. He owns a 2.16 GAA and .929 SV% for the season, and has already

established a new career high with 1,028 minutes played. Peters’ current GAA would set a new career best, while his .931 SV% in

seven games during the 2011-12 season is his career high.

 

Last Game:

 

 

Stopped 37 of 38 shots faced in Carolina's 3-1 win at PHX (12/14)

* Since Nov. 5, he has posted a 1.63 GAA and .945 SV%. Among goalies with at least eight games played during that span, he ranks first in

SV% and second in GAA.

* Made 43 saves, the most by a Carolina goalie this season, at DET (11/21)

* Started a career-high 10 consecutive games from 10/25-11/16

* Recorded a career-high five consecutive games without a regulation loss from 11/5-11/15

* Posted a 1.16 GAA and .958 SV% and stopped 138 of 144 shots faced in the team's five-game homestand from 11/5-11/15

* Earned his second consecutive win and third career shutout, stopping all 21 shots faced in Carolina's win vs. NYI (11/7)

*

 

Career Penalty Shots: 1 (0 goals on 1 attempts)

*

 

Career Highs: Saves: 48 Consec. Starts: 10 Consec. Wins: 3 Shutout sequence: 82:58

*

 

HURRICANES CAREER TOTALS: 64 gp, 2.98 gaa (3,505 min., 174 ga), 22-30-6, 3 so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since Nov. 5, Justin Peters has posted a 7-2-3 record, 1.63 GAA and .945 SV%. Among NHL goalies with at least eight games played

during that span, he ranks first in SV% and second in GAA. He owns a 2.16 GAA and .929 SV% for the season, and has already

established a new career high with 1,028 minutes played. Peters’ current GAA would set a new career best, while his .931 SV% in

seven games during the 2011-12 season is his career high.

 

Last Game:

 

 

Stopped 37 of 38 shots faced in Carolina's 3-1 win at PHX (12/14)

* Since Nov. 5, he has posted a 1.63 GAA and .945 SV%. Among goalies with at least eight games played during that span, he ranks first in

SV% and second in GAA.

* Made 43 saves, the most by a Carolina goalie this season, at DET (11/21)

* Started a career-high 10 consecutive games from 10/25-11/16

* Recorded a career-high five consecutive games without a regulation loss from 11/5-11/15

* Posted a 1.16 GAA and .958 SV% and stopped 138 of 144 shots faced in the team's five-game homestand from 11/5-11/15

* Earned his second consecutive win and third career shutout, stopping all 21 shots faced in Carolina's win vs. NYI (11/7)

*

 

Career Penalty Shots: 1 (0 goals on 1 attempts)

*

 

Career Highs: Saves: 48 Consec. Starts: 10 Consec. Wins: 3 Shutout sequence: 82:58

*

 

HURRICANES CAREER TOTALS: 64 gp, 2.98 gaa (3,505 min., 174 ga), 22-30-6, 3 so

It would appear that you spent time and effort to try to prove something that no one disputes in the first place: Pete has played exceptionally well lately.  The key to the whole debate is your qualification "since Nov. 5". 

 

TWO PERSPECTIVES

  1. Some believe that this represents a turning point for Pete. That, in essence, he became a better goalie as of that date and that going forward we can expect results closer to Pete's recent play over his great 12 game run than those from the rest of his 265 game AHL & NHL career.  
  2. Others believe that the run might be reflective of other factors than Pete suddenly becoming a significantly better goalie and that Pete is likely to come back down to earth at some point and play closer to his historical pro results (regression towards the mean).  Factors might be that Peters is on a hot streak (as compared to having experienced a turning point) or that the team is collapsing more defensively around Peters than Ward in order to protect against more rebounds (perhaps alluded to by a significantly higher number of goals the team is putting up behind Ward as compared to Peters).  

I don't have a problem with anyone supporting either perspective.  But you're not going to sway my perspective by using lots of exclamation points or by selectively quoting statistics that support yours.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Oh, and I'd wager that Mr. Ttrn is actually a secpm user account for an existing forum member. Based on the overall feel of this post I've got to ask: Greg, is that you?  :letssee::lol:

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edit: I actually wrote this and had it sitting unposted before Lake posted, so some is a touch redundant (great minds and all of that). Anyway:

The Cam vs. Peters argument is pretty simple. Peters is playing better right now. If he keeps that up, there is no debate.

Can Peters continue to thrive at this level? That is the question. Has Peters figured something out about his game that has elevated him quite hugely above his historical abilities?

Unless one thinks that Peters is legitimately a top 5 NHL goalie, then clearly he will come back closer to Earth at some point. The question is how much closer to Earth? Last year's Peters will eventually auger into the Earth. At which time the trade Cam folks better hope the Khudobin is also better than his long term numbers.

As a Cane's first fan, I would love it if Peter is hockey's answer to Tom Brady and goes on to become a perennial All Star, top 5 goalie. But there are FAR FAR FAR more guys who have a really nice run for a while, then come back to their historical norms.

If we had but two goalies, Cam and Peters, it would be easy. Let Peters run until the league figures him out. If they never do…then we have a new number one.

However, since we have 3 goalies, and I guarantee that JR and Muller are not as convinced as some on here that Peters is quite this good, it comes down to a gestalt judgment. Since at some point one of them has to go. For the next few years, who do you want to bet on being the best number one goalie?

Of course in fairness to JR, we don't know what is being offered for any of the goalies. If Peters is really a top 5 goalie, shouldn't we be getting some sweet offers? I suspect if we did, there would have been a trade. So, likely other GM's aren't quite as quick to crown Peters as the next great goalie either.

I think it is fair to say that over the expanse of Cam's career, he has shown eliteness twice, SCF run, and 2010. But he has consistently played behind extremely inept defenses. This is the first year that is not the case. Despite his current confidence issues, I still want to see a healthy confident Ward play a string of games behind this defense. Because I still think over the long haul he will preform the best.

Clearly this is an opinion based on 2010 Cam and my gut feeling, and not the "numbers" of late. I realize I could be wrong. I realize other boards may not agree with me. I realize that Peters has put up better numbers than Cam this year. If Cam gets that shot and stinks I'll bring the crow out.

Edited by remkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same old opinions, same old statements, same posters, on both sides of the argument.  Note I said "argument' since there just isn't any discussion to be had here.

 

This is getting rather boring.

MORE LIKE A HEADACHE :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without even going into who I think we should move, I'm looking at it from JR's perspective. JR has shown loyalty to certain players over the years. With that said I don't think he will move Peters or Cam. Unfortunately if we move a goalie I think it will be Khudobin . Before the season started I was looking for Doby to push Ward for greater performance and see if Doby could push  himself for the #1 slot. Then all H broke loose.Tradeing Doby right now would not bring us a great value. A package deal might have to happen which is even more difficult. I don't see anything happening right now, might wait until close to March 5th. Doby may go down to Charlotte for some time. Peters/Gleason/Tlusty may bring some value, just don't see JR moving Peters at this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You forgot one very important common denominator, even with all of those changes.. Those teams were not any good at all and were never going to make the playoffs with any goaltender. This team has been more inconsistent on offense, defense and on special teams over those years than it has been in goal. It's unbelievable that you actually think that one player is responsible for the team's playoffs fate every year. Absolutely unreal.

 

I posted this earlier but Corey Crawford has a .908 save percentage but is 17-6-3 and the Blackhawks are first place in the league. Peters has a .929 but is only 7-8-2 and we're barely hanging onto a playoff spot in the "weakest" division. 

 

Would someone from the anti-Ward camp explain to me how the Blackhawks are doing so well with such a "bad" goaltender? (Hint: I already know the answer.)

 

Just to be clear: I'm not saying Cam Ward is playing well right now, he's not, he needs to get it together, but he's not the reason this team loses. I'm saying that most of the reasons people here want to trade Cam (minus his contact, but that is what is is) are unjustified until the TEAM plays a consistent game. One game our offense can't get it done, the next our D can't, the next our goaltending is lacking. That's the real problem, not specific players.

 

When the team is + 36  is a big help!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you are ready to crown him King of the Crease on "since Nov. 5". How about before Nov. 5?

 

Based on playing once a month? No. But I see Peters game improving and not so much for Ward. I'll take a player on the upswing rather than one tanking.

Edited by winger52

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the team is + 36  is a big help!

 

That's exactly my point. They play as a team and win as a team, something the Canes have very rarely done consistently. If one aspect of their team game is lacking, Chicago still finds a way to win. 

 

To start the season Carolina scored like 1 goal a game and played in their own end for 40 minutes most of the time. Hard for any goaltender to come out on the winning side of that.

 

Lately, we've been scoring more, but our defense seems to disappear for the first period or so (1st period of the Edmonton game is a brutal example of what happens when skill players aren't defended). 

 

If the team actually plays up to their potential, any of the 3 goaltenders we have under contract are more than enough to get the job done. But they don't play like they need to every night and this is way more important than who is in goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another underwhelming effort from Cam last night, this time against the Caps.

 

Once again another sub 91% save percentage from Ward!

 

This time it was 89%.... argh!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would appear that you spent time and effort to try to prove something that no one disputes in the first place: Pete has played exceptionally well lately.  The key to the whole debate is your qualification "since Nov. 5". 

 

TWO PERSPECTIVES

  1. Some believe that this represents a turning point for Pete. That, in essence, he became a better goalie as of that date and that going forward we can expect results closer to Pete's recent play over his great 12 game run than those from the rest of his 265 game AHL & NHL career.  
  2. Others believe that the run might be reflective of other factors than Pete suddenly becoming a significantly better goalie and that Pete is likely to come back down to earth at some point and play closer to his historical pro results (regression towards the mean).  Factors might be that Peters is on a hot streak (as compared to having experienced a turning point) or that the team is collapsing more defensively around Peters than Ward in order to protect against more rebounds (perhaps alluded to by a significantly higher number of goals the team is putting up behind Ward as compared to Peters).  

I don't have a problem with anyone supporting either perspective.  But you're not going to sway my perspective by using lots of exclamation points or by selectively quoting statistics that support yours.

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Oh, and I'd wager that Mr. Ttrn is actually a secpm user account for an existing forum member. Based on the overall feel of this post I've got to ask: Greg, is that you?  :letssee::lol:

LOL....

No but I do applaud Mr T's efforts and for getting us away from "Edenton McDonald's-like name calling" and other small minded, let me try and control things thinking and childish acts.

NICE JOB T!!!  Keep the analytics coming!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another underwhelming effort from Cam last night, this time against the Caps.
 
Once again another sub 91% save percentage from Ward!
 
This time it was 89%.... argh!!!

 

The first goal is the only one I'd fault Cam on last night. None were soft goals. Second was a screened blast from the point, the third was a tipped off speed shot from the point that changed directions. All on the PP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about lets stop with the name calling all together and move on?

 

People are welcome to not respond to other users if you think they are trolling and I'd like to remind people we have an ignore user feature. Please... someone use it... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first goal is the only one I'd fault Cam on last night. None were soft goals. Second was a screened blast from the point, the third was a tipped off speed shot from the point that changed directions. All on the PP.

 

So ... you're saying you are OK with Cam's 89.3% performance last night and his 90.1% for the season ?  Maybe we need to pay him more than $6.6 million this year for those numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since when does a goalie's salary or SV% determine whether the goals were 'soft' or not?

 

Some of these arguments and negativity in this thread are getting pretty ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please can we stop with the goaltender bashing? When this team was having trouble scoring there were crtical comments and some intelligent observations being made. No-one singled out a specific player and crucified them on these boards. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but the Cam bashing has reached a point of farcical. Let's just agree to disagree on this topic and close the thread down.

Edited by hockeybaby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's only going to get worse. 

 

When a discussion reaches the point of an argument, and neither side is going to change their opinion, and you have a troll to throw fuel on the fire, it's a recipe for unhappy board members, name-calling, etc. 

 

No ignore feature is going to fix this, and if it continues, it will bleed over, if it hasn't already, to every thread here.

Edited by coastal_caniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...