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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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No ignore feature is going to fix this, and if it continues, it will bleed over, if it hasn't already, to every thread here.

 

Honestly, it has tainted most of the conversation in all the treads.  Every thread has basically become "Player X sucks" and "no he doesn't".

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I am still in the Cam can be elite camp, and will be at least above average soon. And I don't want to gas to the fire, but…...

 

Cam needs to find his game fast. I may be over critical about last night, and Cam may have just had a run of bad luck, but I'm just thinking he is not on his A game yet. I really think grade A Cam gets one if not two of those saves last night.

 

And while we have a guy on these boards who loves to push buttons more than anything in this world, it's not just him that is anxious about Cam.

 

My poll currently sits with an n = 39.

 

41% would trade Cam now if we could get fair value. 

33% would NOT trade Cam even if we could get "fair" value.

(25% don't think we'd get value) so kind of a middle ground.

 

It appears that 67% of the voters would be at least open to the idea of trading Cam right now, and 41% would do it.

 

I really don't think the honest discussion is "Is Cam playing up to his contract?". The question is 'will he soon?". I still say yes, but I'd really like to start seeing it. 

 

Cam can you do me a favor and quiet our button pusher down?

Edited by remkin

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Honestly, it has tainted most of the conversation in all the treads.  ....

For me it has.  I was a more frequent poster in previous seasons.  It has been interesting reading everyone'sposts, but not worth wading into across multiple threads, especially this one and the GDT when the same subject is raised.

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So ... you're saying you are OK with Cam's 89.3% performance last night and his 90.1% for the season ?  Maybe we need to pay him more than $6.6 million this year for those numbers.

Actually, I've always thought on ALL goalies that save % is a little subjective. If you only face 19 shots that make it through to the goaltender and you give up 2 goals, you're below 90%. You face one more shot and you're at 90%. Its more a testament of the offense a goalie is facing as well as how well a defense is playing in front of him. Whether its Ward, Peters or Khudobin.

 

IF Cam had given up 5 goals on 30 shots AND we won 6-5, I'd be ok with that. For me if you win a game 1-0 or 9-8 a win is a win, regardless of save %.

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Please can we stop with the goaltender bashing? When this team was having trouble scoring there were crtical comments and some intelligent observations being made. No-one singled out a specific player and crucified them on these boards. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but the Cam bashing has reached a point of farcical. Let's just agree to disagree on this topic and close the thread down.

 

Yeah that's the thing to do. Because why would anyone want to comment on the goalie situation. I should put this  :sarcasm: up so I don't create confusion. If the "All inclusive goalie discussion" is causing so much anxiety for you why do you feel the need to shut it down. Maybe you should read the "Cam is the greatest no matter what happens" thread. And by the way, other threads have had and still have bashing on other players

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I know this thread does get back to the same people making a lot of the same posts, and at least a couple on the "less favorable to Cam" side have a fairly aggressive style, but after last night, it is really hard not to think this is a legitimate topic.

 

At the least we have a goalie controversy, at the most, Peters has already taken over as de facto #1. 

 

If Peters starts Monday, and I'd have to think he will, then at least at the moment, he is our go to guy. After last night, we almost have to.

 

Despite all of that, I still think Cam makes a come back, but at the moment, this is a very live issue.

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I think it's obvious (to me at least) that Peters has wrestled the current #1 slot away from Ward, but let's see how long it lasts. Maybe he has turned the corner on his career. He is much more under control with much less flopping around.

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I think Peters has earned the top spot for now. But I for one would not give up on Cam. No matter his recent struggles, there is no denying that Cam has played at a high level in playoffs in 2006 and 2009 and has had some remarkable games over a long period of time. Without Peters, this year would probably be lost already. But the last 1/2 of last year is still fresh in my mind, and Peters needs to keep proving he has found his game for good before I am ready to put our whole season on his shoulders. I believe before the season is over, Cam will challenge for the #1 spot again. I hope so, because I can't see anyone taking on Cam's contract even if we want to move him. And remember, we were in a playoff spot when Cam got hurt last year. And where does all this leave Khudobin?

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I think the Canes won't be able to pull off keeping Khudobin on IR much longer when it seems the whole free world knows he's healthy.

 

:letssee:

Edited by coastal_caniac

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im glad i dont have to make this decision. personally i would like to see ward moved and his bloated contract. but thats not gonna happen. does anyone seriously think peters can handle a 80 game schedule playing at the level he is now?? also if you trade ward, the other two are free agents at years end.  so that means one of the backups gets traded. i just hope jr dosen"t rutheford and give someone away or over pay for marginal help. one of gleason or ruttu has to go if ward stays....... gonne be interesting, but no matter what jr does theres the chance of a goalie getting injured again and that leaves mm or muse as the back up... not pretty......

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I think it's easy to play the blame game in a situation like this. Goaltending is under the microscope because for the first time in a long time, the Canes have other viable options besides Cam Ward. If anyone would have told me that Justin Peters would be The Canes #1 goaltender by Christmas, I would have laughed in their face. Yes, I agree he still has to prove he can play like this consistently, but as of THIS MOMENT, Justin Peters is The Canes' best goaltender.

 

Apparently Khudobin has refused a conditioning stint in Charlotte. That is his right, but maybe JR didn't like it. I dunno. I think it was to buy JR time to decide who he wants to move and work a deal out. My head tells me that JR is trying to move Khudobin, but I believe it would be difficult to move a goalie who is just coming back from injury and hasn't played a game yet. My gut tells me he's going to move Peters, but what a PR nightmare to trade the Canes best goaltender at the time.

 

According to Forslund (and I respect his opinion and insight) he doesn't believe for a second that JR would trade Ward. I share his opinion on Ward when he said something to the affect: Ward is a goaltender that has been ridden hard in past seasons, been banged up, and now it's showing.

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Last night, I saw the Justin Peters who played us from playoff position to 26th in the NHL last year. The last goal, and maybe the tying goal were stoppable, no question. So was a relative stinker after the Tampa performance an aberration, or the real Justin Peters returning after a hot streak where he played some great games? My inclination is the latter. I hope I am wrong but his career stats (NHL and AHL) don't match the dozen or so strong games this year. It would be a luxury to keep 3 goalies, but I think that is not going to happen for a whole season. Peters has some trade value now. A couple of bad games and we can just waive him and send him back to Charlotte. For all the Cam bashing I read on this board, I'll take my chances with him over Peters. Besides, no one is going to trade for that contract. Remember all of the excitement over the Khudobin signing? He hasn't even really had a chance to show what he can do. I think we should "sell high" on peters now, and look to Ward and Khudobin to step up as was the plan when the year started. If we do not straighten out some other areas of our game, which goalie we play will not decide our fate anyway.

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I wouldn't mind if JR held on to all three goalies for the time being. Having three healthy, capable starters on the roster is a very nice commodity to have considering our rash of goalie injuries the past few seasons.

 

I'm not saying JR shouldn't entertain any trade offers or seek a trade, but with Murphy and Lindholm being waiver exempt it's good to know that the ball is still in JR's court when the time comes to trim the roster to 23 players.

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The thing that makes trade talk so hard is that we really don't know what is being offered, and in the case of Gleason, if he, a la Whitney, refused to waive his NTC once or more. I just have to think a team like Edmonton has offered something for him. But we only know one side of the "deal".

 

Would you trade Peters for a second round pick? Gleason? 

 

JR has to find a way to convert things into something we need, then in Gleason's case he has to agree to it. 

 

I know, I know, JR and the NTC's, but I can remember the day JR broke w/ tradition and resigned Gleason mid-season. It was just about 100% approval and applause around here, me included.

 

I would love to know what kind of deals have been offered. Trading is such an art and a lot of luck. JR got stoned by Whitney, then overplayed his hand and we got nada. But then JR stole Sekera from Buffalo. 

 

If JR can turn Peters and Nash into a scrappy pro third line center, and Gleason into a PP specialist. That would go a long way this Christmas season.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, fellow board members. 

 

What I want for Christmas? Not much, just an Island.

Edited by remkin

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Remkin, we don't know what has been offered, or even what we have put on the table to trade. That being said, I would much rather get roster players who might help us now, but on Peters, yes I would take a 2nd round pick rather than lose him for nothing at the end of the year. In Peters, we have seen a very small sample of what he could become that does not match what he has consistently done over several years. Gleason is tougher because it is easy to remember what he has done in the past and at least hope he returns to that type of player soon. But the contract!!! I'd like to get a roster player for Gleason, even if it is someone similar who has performed in the past but like Gleason is struggling and could use a change of scenery. What might we get if we packaged a hot, low priced goalie with a physical defenseman who has not played his best hockey of late but has a healthy contract? Don't know, and don't know what else we are putting out there, but I feel some move(s) are needed pronto if we are going to right the ship.

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I think it's easy to play the blame game in a situation like this. Goaltending is under the microscope because for the first time in a long time, the Canes have other viable options besides Cam Ward. If anyone would have told me that Justin Peters would be The Canes #1 goaltender by Christmas, I would have laughed in their face. Yes, I agree he still has to prove he can play like this consistently, but as of THIS MOMENT, Justin Peters is The Canes' best goaltender.

 

Apparently Khudobin has refused a conditioning stint in Charlotte. That is his right, but maybe JR didn't like it. I dunno. I think it was to buy JR time to decide who he wants to move and work a deal out. My head tells me that JR is trying to move Khudobin, but I believe it would be difficult to move a goalie who is just coming back from injury and hasn't played a game yet. My gut tells me he's going to move Peters, but what a PR nightmare to trade the Canes best goaltender at the time.

 

According to Forslund (and I respect his opinion and insight) he doesn't believe for a second that JR would trade Ward. I share his opinion on Ward when he said something to the affect: Ward is a goaltender that has been ridden hard in past seasons, been banged up, and now it's showing.

Post of the thread so far, IMO.

 

I agree JR will move Peters in a skinny minute for the right kind of help, which - despite the collapse against CBJ - is not on the D corps. This team needs more than one guy (Skinner) who can put the puck in the net, or at least is willing to shoot the d*mn thing. Our SOG totals are abysmal for a team with the offensive talent we've contracted. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Score three goals first in this league and you greatly improve your chances of winning. Score 4 and a W is all but guaranteed.

 

JR made a long-term decision over the summer that Ward and Khudobin are his keepers. The first few weeks of the season it looked like genius. I don't think he will let Peters getting hot change that long-term decision; I think he will instead see it as an opportunity to get either (1) more offense or (2) a big D-man/enforcer, our lack of which is increasingly clear when one looks around the league.

 

Peters, Gleason and possibly Ruutu for either a top-four forward and a high pick or a big D man with skills and two picks. 

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I want  Nash to stay, he is starting to fit into his role, and HE can cycle along the boards.. I agree, Peters, Ruutu, and Gleason are main pieces being shopped, not sure if  teams are salivating..  We shall see..

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Every year the rumor mill says Ruutu is being shopped, and every year it's wrong. When healthy. I think Ruutu is a great asset to the team.

 

It's a sticky situation. I'm pretty sure in my mind that it's Peters OR Khudobin. But, if JR is trying to move Khudobin, he can't showcase him because he refused a condition stint in Charlotte. JR doesn't have roster room to carry 3 goaltenders and neither Peters or Khudobin would survive waivers. Bottom line: something has to give soon. One will be traded, or one will be moved down and picked up on waivers.

 

I agree that Nash is fitting in well. In my mind, he's the only Checker that has been remotely consistent in the past couple season.

 

JR has some issues to address. I do not believe he did a bad job assembling this team. However, some individuals are underachieving. Before his two-goal game, where has Tlusty been? This is a guy expected to produce and quite simply he isn't. Semin is just now starting to gel with J Staal, but before then was invisible. This guy has as much offensive talent as anyone in the league, that's what is so frustrating. You know the guy has the tools, but for whatever reason isn't getting it done. It's more of a burden than Tlusty's situation because Semin is getting big money.

 

This team has got to be tougher to play against, and trading for a single enforcer-type player isn't going to solve that issue. The Canes need to be systematically tougher to play against. I've seen a few guys have stepped up their physical play lately, and I hope it continues.

 

Lastly, as said before, everything depends on what's coming back. I understand that moving Gleason would largely be a salary dump. But if we're talking package deal, what comes back? IMO, The Canes don't need another 3rd line role-player, and I don't think JR can swing a deal for a top line player, financially speaking. Besides, this team has enough offensive talent to put points on the board. For whatever reason it doesn't seem like the team can get a good mix of good offensive play AND steady defense. It always seems to be one or the other.... AND is better... this should be interesting.

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I agree with you on Ruutu, and on the enforcer piece. Waaaaay more important to step up our physicality as a team, and Ruutu has actually done a nice job in that department lately, particularly when Skinner is targeted. 

 

On the goalie situation, the problem with trading Peters is that he's the one keeping us in the chase. Khudobin's refusal to condition probably has sealed his fate as trade bait, the (obvious) problem is that his body of work this year is too small. My guess is that JR is shopping him and will eventually send him down even if it means exposing him to waivers. If he trades Peters and both Cam and Khudobin come up empty - well, we may see a tar-and-feathering in the PNC parking lot. I think JR's background as a goalie will prevent him from giving up a bird in the hand for two in the bush. 

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Was it ever announced that Khudobin refused a conditioning stint earlier? Or were we basing statements simply on the fact he looked healthy and hadn't been sent down?

 

I can't find any reporting saying he refused. Michael Smith (Checkers writer paid by the club) tweeted on Dec. 17 that the possibility still exists for Khudobin to be assigned to CLT for conditioning. Don't know where the "refusal" story came from, but I can't imagine Khudobin refusing outright; it's his only chance to play back onto the roster. 

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Peters is coming back to earth, and fast. 2 blown games in a row in the 3rd period/OT. The second goal by Pittsburgh tonight was maybe the softest I have ever seen. For whatever reason, bashing Cam seems to be the favorite pastime on this board, but with what we are paying him, and given 2 collapses in a row by Peters, it is time to play our starter. And Khudobin is headed for Charlotte, so he will get some work and we will see if what he showed in 2 games to start the season was a mirage. In an earlier post, I compared Peters' hot streak to Michael Leighton's playoff run to glory for Philly a couple years ago. We all know Leighton is not an NHL caliber starting goalie, and it did not take long the next year before he was back in the AHL. Why then, based on a dozen regular season games (and after destroying our season last year) do so many of you think Peters is any different from Leighton?

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