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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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I am not bashing Ward, he is one of my all-time favorite canes, but you do realize he has only got to the playoffs one time has the #1 goalie, Marty Gerber got us there in 06, and Cam just finished the job, Cam has always been a lot better in the playoffs, but early in the reg season he just is very rusty, and doesn't seem has focused has he should be, last season when he was benched for Ellis, the next time he played, he played with game 7 focus and determination, then I thought maybe that's what Cam was always lacking, a solid #2 to push him to always play his best, and that is what Khubdobin was going to do, I was excited going into the season because we pretty much had 2 #1 goalies , then lightning strikes again, and both Ward and Khubdobin go down, then low and behold PeteDawg is back in the Canes net, and my first thought was "Why is this guy still in our system ?" 

 

He has been a surprise, and is actually playing solid, but has the poster above mentioned, the last 2 games we have seen some bad goals, like that game winner last night , and he is showing that he is still not an NHL starter, when Khubdobin gets healthy, PeteDawg should be back in a Checkers uniform!!!!

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I am not bashing Ward, he is one of my all-time favorite canes, but you do realize he has only got to the playoffs one time has the #1 goalie,

 

...and do you realize that Ward is only one player on the team?  My issue with all the Ward bashing is that he's the easiest target and it's way too simple to blame it all on any one player when it's a team sport. Is it all on any one player that the Canes didn't make the playoffs those years?   Of course, this makes me a Ward apologist and the circular argument is back.

 

Never mind.

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Good to see Khudobin ready to get back in net.  Somebody remind me how long that can last?

 

Not sure because it seems that every case is different.  OBXer and LakeLivin are usually pretty good about NHL rules so maybe they'll chime in with what they find.  EDIT:  I think it can be for up to two weeks but no more than 14 days if I read it right but the catch is the league has to approve it.

 

JR will be under the gun to make a decision soon, the AHL conditioning is only a short term diversion.  Peters has played out of his mind but has become human again as of late behind a spotty defense.  Peter's value is likely at an all time high so I'm betting he will be the odd man out when the hammer falls.  I just hope that Jr does a little house cleaning on the defense too since he's had a chance to evaluate the surplus of dmen currently on the roster. 

 

Cant remember who said it and where they said it but this team is good.  Its shown it can play with the best teams in the league but unfortunately its lacking something to be able to win against most of them.  The goalie argument has been the hot topic all season long and for good reason but I still don't think after all these games that goaltending is what's keeping this team from getting to the next level.  They play hard and to the final buzzer (almost every night) but for whatever reason, their best gets them close and sometimes even a win, but its not enough for the post season.

Edited by TSA

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From the CBA:

 

13.8 Conditioning Loan. Unless a Player consents, he shall not be Loaned on a Conditioning Loan to a minor league club. Such Conditioning Loan shall not extend for more than fourteen (14) consecutive days. The Commissioner may take whatever steps he deems necessary to investigate the circumstances under which a Player is Loaned on a Conditioning Loan. If the Commissioner has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Conditioning Loan to evade the Re-Entry Waivers, or otherwise Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take such disciplinary action against the Club, as he deems appropriate. The Player shall continue, during the period of such Conditioning Loan, to receive the same Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, and be entitled to the same benefits, that he would have received had he continued to play with the Club.

 

On Peters, his value is low now like it's always been.  Other clubs aren't blind, and if we get a second that's likely the ceiling there.  I won't be expecting much more.

 

On this team being good - I beg to differ.  It can play well against any team in the league, but all 30 teams can do that. I guess it depends on if you base  your opinion on the fact we are a point out of a playoff position in the weakest division in the league OR we would be picking 7th if the draft were held today.

 

It's it in bottom third of the league in almost every statistical category.  You don't know what you will get from one night to the next, has no depth, no identity, and a front office that seems lost as how to pull the franchise out of the cellar yet again.

 

This franchise isn't good.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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There it is, thanks.  JR now has 2 weeks to solidify his plan, hopefully the phones will be busy.   If Khoddibin looks good to go, I bet this happens sooner than later.

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I still believe Khudobin is far better then Peters and hope its Peters on his way out. If we really need a look at someone to take the number one job long term Khudobin has far more potential. Unfortunately we are all very well aware that most players returning from knee injuries mid season don't usually look good again that year.

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On this team being good - I beg to differ.  It can play well against any team in the league, but all 30 teams can do that. I guess it depends on if you base  your opinion on the fact we are a point out of a playoff position in the weakest division in the league OR we would be picking 7th if the draft were held today.

 

It's it in bottom third of the league in almost every statistical category.  You don't know what you will get from one night to the next, has no depth, no identity, and a front office that seems lost as how to pull the franchise out of the cellar yet again.

 

This franchise isn't good.

And this issue goes way beyond whatever goalie is playing, what goalie is traded, or whether Cam Ward is average at best. With the exception of 2009, we have been having this same discussion about this team. It's deeper than any one player.

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Not sure because it seems that every case is different.  OBXer and LakeLivin are usually pretty good about NHL rules so maybe they'll chime in with what they find.  EDIT:  I think it can be for up to two weeks but no more than 14 days if I read it right but the catch is the league has to approve it.

Coastal beat me to it.  I had the exact same paragraph cut and ready to paste when I scrolled down to see he had already posted it. :)

 

There's someone else on here who pulls up some of the more obscure rules when needed. I'm thinking maybe it's InvisibleCane?

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I expect when the dust settles Ward and Dobby are our goalies. Trading Peters might not be easy and the return likely not that big. LA and Washington will soon have 3 healthy goalies and are rumored to look at trading one.  But Pete-Dawg has played well enough that I don't think he would clear waivers. Getting something is better than getting nothing.

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. . .1) On Peters, his value is low now like it's always been.  Other clubs aren't blind, and if we get a second that's likely the ceiling there.  I won't be expecting much more.

 

2) On this team being good - I beg to differ.  It can play well against any team in the league, but all 30 teams can do that. I guess it depends on if you base  your opinion on the fact we are a point out of a playoff position in the weakest division in the league OR we would be picking 7th if the draft were held today.

 

It's it in bottom third of the league in almost every statistical category.  You don't know what you will get from one night to the next, has no depth, no identity, and a front office that seems lost as how to pull the franchise out of the cellar yet again.

 

This franchise isn't good.

1) I suspect Peter's value maxed out 2 games ago but has slipped quite a bit over the last 2 :(. I'm guessing it maxed out at maybe a 2nd rounder, probably hard to get that right now.

 

2) Put me in the "potential to be good" category.  They seem to play well against the better teams fairly consistently, even if they don't always win.  But the failure to win against the bottom is very disconcerting.  Someone mentioned them laying down. Although they've screwed up at the end of some games, I've never noticed them giving up this year.

 

Yes, there's something missing, but it seems like just one or two tweaks could make all the difference in the world.  It feels like we're right on the edge of being good, just need to step over.   

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From the CBA:

 

13.8 Conditioning Loan. Unless a Player consents, he shall not be Loaned on a Conditioning Loan to a minor league club. Such Conditioning Loan shall not extend for more than fourteen (14) consecutive days. The Commissioner may take whatever steps he deems necessary to investigate the circumstances under which a Player is Loaned on a Conditioning Loan. If the Commissioner has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Conditioning Loan to evade the Re-Entry Waivers, or otherwise Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take such disciplinary action against the Club, as he deems appropriate. The Player shall continue, during the period of such Conditioning Loan, to receive the same Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, and be entitled to the same benefits, that he would have received had he continued to play with the Club.

 

On Peters, his value is low now like it's always been.  Other clubs aren't blind, and if we get a second that's likely the ceiling there.  I won't be expecting much more.

 

On this team being good - I beg to differ.  It can play well against any team in the league, but all 30 teams can do that. I guess it depends on if you base  your opinion on the fact we are a point out of a playoff position in the weakest division in the league OR we would be picking 7th if the draft were held today.

 

It's it in bottom third of the league in almost every statistical category.  You don't know what you will get from one night to the next, has no depth, no identity, and a front office that seems lost as how to pull the franchise out of the cellar yet again.

 

This franchise isn't good.

 

All points well taken. Maybe this team has the potential to be good?

 

EDIT: We're on the same page LakeLivin ;)

Edited by TSA

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On Peters, his value is low now like it's always been.  Other clubs aren't blind, and if we get a second that's likely the ceiling there.  I won't be expecting much more.

 

I'm not sure what we'd get for Peters, but any time I have doubts about JR, I remember that he convinced someone to take Tomas Kaberle's contract... so just about anything could happen.

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I'm not sure what we'd get for Peters, but any time I have doubts about JR, I remember that he convinced someone to take Tomas Kaberle's contract... so just about anything could happen.

THUD! ..and Peters returns to earth.

 

JR is about all we can hope for.  I'm not seeing desperation in other teams to grab this new found gem.  I'd be thrilled with a 2nd round pick, but think it would be more like a conditional 6th rounder. 

 

He's held it together for the team, but its time to execute the original plan.

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Peters has returned to Earth, agree on that. But he probably still has some value as his numbers are still decent, and he's right now been our #1 goalie (about to change). I'd grab what we can get, but anything less than a second rounder is a shot in the dark. Still, the flip side is either betting on Peters long term, or putting him on waivers. Even if he is not claimed, he goes back to AHL and his value plummets. If he is claimed he's gone. At this point get what you can. I am just not a Peters believer. He's had his run.

 

But this team does need some kind of move to be made. Peters will likely not bring what we need and Tlusty is out. I guess it's on what JR can get for Gleason, that Gleason agrees to. 

 

I still think this team is better than we're seeing, but until it proves it, I have to sit on my Island.

Edited by remkin

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Peters is coming back to earth, and fast. 2 blown games in a row in the 3rd period/OT. The second goal by Pittsburgh tonight was maybe the softest I have ever seen. For whatever reason, bashing Cam seems to be the favorite pastime on this board, but with what we are paying him, and given 2 collapses in a row by Peters, it is time to play our starter. And Khudobin is headed for Charlotte, so he will get some work and we will see if what he showed in 2 games to start the season was a mirage. In an earlier post, I compared Peters' hot streak to Michael Leighton's playoff run to glory for Philly a couple years ago. We all know Leighton is not an NHL caliber starting goalie, and it did not take long the next year before he was back in the AHL. Why then, based on a dozen regular season games (and after destroying our season last year) do so many of you think Peters is any different from Leighton?

All due respect, BDC, but blaming these last two losses on Peters is way off. Defensive breakdowns lost the CBJ game and were it not for Peters we'd have never even been in the Pens game. Getting one point off that team, when you look at where we are in comparison, is an achievement. They can turn their offense on and off at will, and when they turned it on before the Canes got their late goal, Peters was a rock to keep us within one.

 

You cite Leighton's hot streak. Here's a flash: Hot streaks are what start every successful goalie's career. It was a post-season hot streak that made Cam our #1. Rask replaced Tim Thomas when it was clear his hot streak had become his everyday game. I could continue listing examples, but you get my point.

 

Peters has been fundamentally solid - and getting more so - throughout starts this season. Gone are the long rebounds, his butterfly and positioning are great. I'm not saying he will become our number-one guy - indeed, assuming Khudobin comes back strong, I think JR will package Peters with maybe Gleason and a forward and return to his original plan when the season began, which was Cam as the number 1 with K. shouldering more of load than backups have in recent years. But let's at least give credit where it's due: If Peters  had not played as he has been, the Canes could very easily be down there with the Isles. Instead they're one point out of third place.

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And this issue goes way beyond whatever goalie is playing, what goalie is traded, or whether Cam Ward is average at best. With the exception of 2009, we have been having this same discussion about this team. It's deeper than any one player.

Exactly correct, and I think my new signature sums it up.

 

It's not enough to "try" to win. You have to be willing to leave it all out there, every night. Since 2006, this team - with a couple of exceptions, most notably Skinner and Bowman - has just not shown that kind of desire on a nightly basis.

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Top-Shelf, I agree that for a dozen games this season, Peters played his best hockey as a Cane. I just think the team invested a ton in Cam to be our starter for years to come, and Peters of late has not convinced me he is any long-term solution. We had, and maybe still have a chance to get something for Peters, rather than losing him to waivers or losing him for nothing at the end of the season. I appreciate what he has done for the team for most of his starts this season, but JR made it clear what he felt about Peters' long term future with the Canes when he signed Khudobin w/Peters already under contract. Remember that Cam has played behind some terrible defenses for many years. We are treading water and have been most of the season. One way to shake up a team is to make a change in goal. Hopefully Cam is ready. If Khudobin goes to Charlotte and shows he is ready to back Cam up, or even push him for a job I think we should try to get something for Peters. Probably would not bring a high draft pick on his own, but might be packaged to get us some needed help.

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Peters came up here, focused, and kept the Canes from being the Isles or the Sabres, as top-shelf pointed out.  He did.

 

Thanks PeteDawg! 

 

Somebody step up and carry the load, cause the Pete Dawg is wearing out.

 

Somebody.

 

Goes for you too, JR. 

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Almost all goalies are streaky. Pete-Dawg has had a couple of OK games but not outstanding games as he was able to put together earlier.  I will hold judgment on him for now. Peters could be a goalie that needs rest from time to time to keep sharp or he could be a goalie that was playing over his head and is now coming back down to earth. There just isn't enough history yet to tell.

 

My guess is he is good enough to be a solid backup in the NHL.

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Wow, expectations with this fanbase can be ridiculous. Peters played amazing, yes, and the past two starts he's played average. So did the rest of the team? They outplayed the opposition, but continues to fail to capitalize on mounting scoring chances.

 

And how does that mean suddenly Peters can't be amazing again? People shell out so many reasons/excuses for Ward, but now that Peters didn't play as well as he has for a couple games he's suddenly an AHL goalie again? Ward has been struggling hard, Peters hasn't. I'll wait and see after the next couple weeks whether or not Peters has "Fallen back to earth". Looking at his first five games, it seems he'll be a bit streaky in play. He wasn't anything special initially, then got real hot. 

 

You can't blame the last two on Peters. I can see why many would, but when it comes down to it, we had so many shots and chances we never buried. You can't blame Peters on the fact we can't capitalize, while the other teams can. 

 

Also, update on Khudobin. Through one period with Charlotte tonight, he's made 9 saves on 10 shots in a 1-1 tie with the Second Period starting now.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Okay, Sucka is the first Peters apologist. :popcorn:

 

Next thing will be the "Peters is average at best" debate, and I'll be laughing my buttocks off. :rofl:

 

Only if people keep perpetuating it.  There's been some good discussion in this thread which far outweighs the posts meant only to draw a reaction from others.

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Wow, expectations with this fanbase can be ridiculous. Peters played amazing, yes, and the past two starts he's played average. So did the rest of the team? They outplayed the opposition, but continues to fail to capitalize on mounting scoring chances.

 

And how does that mean suddenly Peters can't be amazing again? People shell out so many reasons/excuses for Ward, but now that Peters didn't play as well as he has for a couple games he's suddenly an AHL goalie again? Ward has been struggling hard, Peters hasn't. I'll wait and see after the next couple weeks whether or not Peters has "Fallen back to earth". Looking at his first five games, it seems he'll be a bit streaky in play. He wasn't anything special initially, then got real hot. 

 

You can't blame the last two on Peters.

:goodpost:

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