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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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Only if people keep perpetuating it.  There's been some good discussion in this thread which far outweighs the posts meant only to draw a reaction from others.

My post was meant to point out the ridiculousness of half of the content of this thread. If that is perpetuating the problem, well...

Sucka seems to have taken it for what it was.

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My post was meant to point out the ridiculousness of half of the content of this thread. If that is perpetuating the problem, well...

Sucka seems to have taken it for what it was.

 

I got that, guess I wasn't too clear with what I wrote.   Much of this thread is ridiculous but there are a few who keep trying to turn it into a good discussion.  Its a valid topic and one that deserves discussion but it seems there are some intent on not allowing the discussion to move on.  That was what I meant by perpetuating the problem.

I suspect the topic will get hotter and hotter until JR makes some kind of move.  Once Khudobin gets a few games under his belt in Charlotte, I think we'll get our answer, or at least JR's.

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$6.6 million for an 85% saves goalie who lets in just about 4 goals per game is about $6.5 million over payment.   Somehow, he's gotta go, asap.  Ya'll need to get real.  

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$6.6 million for an 85% saves goalie who lets in just about 4 goals per game is about $6.5 million over payment.   Somehow, he's gotta go, asap.  Ya'll need to get real.  

I don't know why I bother. I must be a glutton for punishment....

Ok, here goes...

Well Carnac, where are you going to send him?

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Was it ever announced that Khudobin refused a conditioning stint earlier? Or were we basing statements simply on the fact he looked healthy and hadn't been sent down?

 

Forslund had said on The FAN that Khudobin had balked at JR's intent to send him to Charlotte on a conditioning stint. But no, nothing was every reported.

Edited by ThaRaven

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This argument cannot be won. Is Peters that good? Is Cam that bad? Is Peters the answer? Is Ward done?

 

So we now have an anti-Ward and a pro-Ward crowd. The anti-Ward crowd is going to point out every soft goal that Ward lets in, and on the flipside the pro-Ward crowd will do the same with Peters.

 

I'm not going to get into a debate about who is better, who should be traded, etc. But I will say that last night, 2 goals were a direct result of turning the puck over in our own zone, and 1 was a flukey bounce off a defenseman.

 

Instead, I choose to face reality. And the reality is: Regardless of which goaltender I personally want to see traded, it will not be Cam Ward. 23 NHL teams are operating at $6mill or LESS in cap space. So if JR could trade Ward, he'd have to accept a player with a hefty contract in return. This is also a problem in the Tim Gleason situation.

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Cam needs a good run of games to see if he still has what it takes. I think Muller should say to cam "You're playing the next 8 games" and let cam run with it and see how he does. It took Peters 4-5 games before he got going.

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I am a believer in Cam's talent. But Cam has likely cost us a few games now, and we don't have a lot of those left to give. 

 

This is tough, because we need to give Cam a run of games, but we can't take many more giveaways. We need him to reverse that and steal one. 

 

The question is, is Cam 100%? Is he physically the same guy who put up that season in 2010? I don't know. 

 

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to send Cam down to Charlotte? Let him condition and show what he has w/ out costing games.

 

Assuming Khudobin needs another conditioning start, who do you start tomorrow? 

 

Try to get Ward on track, or pause that and go w/ Peters?

Edited by remkin

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Reading Chip's column in the N&O Rutherford was reported to say we need to get back to a two goalie system. I'm not sure how long he (JR) will be willing to carry 3 goalies but it doesn't sound like it will be long.

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Cam needs a good run of games to see if he still has what it takes. I think Muller should say to cam "You're playing the next 8 games" and let cam run with it and see how he does. It took Peters 4-5 games before he got going.

 I agree with one change ... put Cam in for the next 8 games in Charlotte or with the Everbaldes.    No issue putting him on waivers ... no team would pick him up as bad as he's playing.   And if they do ... we win !

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Annti Raanta just played lights out for the Blackhawks against the Kings.  Shut-out, including a penalty shot.  He's their Murphy, if you will, i.e. the 4th on the depth chart.  Incredible performance, his first shutout on second NHL game.

 

I only bring this up to say that the market continues to be muddled for Peters.  There are perhaps a few more depth goalies out there than is thought.  And Peter's play of late did not help the situation.

 

--

 

Meanwhile, in Detroit, Jimmy Howard looked like Cam of late.  Seriously, watching the highlights, it was strangely familiar.  Jimmy is also fighting a recovery from knee issues.  The USA could use a "good" Jimmy Howard right now.

Edited by wxray1

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I never said Peters was the problem with this team. In fact, he is one of few that has played most of the season near the top of his ability. But the fact remains, we have one goaltender too many. Cam is getting paid like a number one goalie, It is time to give him the ball to run with it. Peters has had years to prove he is an NHL caliber goalie, and except for a few stretches, he has not done it. I have no faith that over the course of the season, Peters can suddenly consistently elevate to an everyday starter who can take us to the playoffs. So put the weight on Cam's shoulders, and tell him he needs to play up to his contract. If he does not, we have 2 buyouts we can exercise this year, and add him to the list of players we might consider using one on. As of now, he would have a lot of company on that list.

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Well, we just recalled Khudobin - who was first star of the Checkers game last night.  And it appears Ward will get the start tonight against the Habs.

 

I do agree with the thought that Muller needs to tell Cam he gets the next ___ (6? 8? 10?) games, and that we need him to shoulder the team.  Someone has to be a leader on this team ... not to say it all has to be on Cam.  But someone has to lead.  He's paid to be the #1 goaltender and he is - like it or not - a fixture and a player the team depends on to lead.  He is a "backstop" in more ways than one - or at least he needs to be.

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I personally wouldn't be surprised if we just sent him back down and tested waivers at this point. Wouldn't like it but wouldn't surprise me.

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I would like to see the goalie situation solved one way or the other. We need a number 1 with the backup getting enough ice time to stay sharp IMO.

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Here's what had me optimistic about Ward (and hopeful that he may still have something left to contribute): immediately after he came back from the injury, starting about 10 minutes into the Boston game and ending with about 10 minutes to go in the NJ game, he played brilliantly for 3 & 2/3 games, going 2-1-1 in the process (with the loss & OT loss coming against Boston).  And yes, I mean stand on your head, NHL elite goaltending over that 3.66 game span.  We all know how he's played since then :thumbdown: .  So what's the difference? Is it something physical, or is it his psyche?   

 

Put me in the "throw Kudo in there" camp.  Even in his first Checkers rehab game loss it sounds like he was strong.  Some excerpts from the write up:

 

"Despite an impressive 36-save performance from Carolina Hurricanes goaltender Anton Khudobin, who made his Checkers debut on a conditioning stint, the Chicago Wolves prevailed by a 4-3 score on Sunday.

 

Though he allowed Hanson’s goal on the Wolves’ first shot of the game, Khudobin, who started the season by winning each of his first two starts with Carolina prior to his injury, looked the part of an NHL goaltender. He gave the Checkers a good chance to win the game, as evidenced by his breakaway stop on Wannstrom, a sprawling pad save with the Wolves up 2-1 in the second period, that allowed Palushaj to tie the game one shift later.

For the most part, Khudobin could not have done much on Chicago’s goals, including Pat Cannone’s power-play strike that put the Wolves up 4-2 with five minutes remaining and ended up counting as the game winner. Khudobin, who otherwise displayed excellent rebound control despite not having played for over two months, had made two initial saves on Cannone before the Wolves forward capitalized on his third attempt with 4:19 remaining in regulation."

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So, the trade Westgarth to Calgary for a center that will sent to Charlotte.  This is how they make room to keep 3 goalies...for now.  I can handle it but agree with most, we need a definite #1, a solid #2, and then the 3rd should be traded.

 

My thoughts on who for what position?  At current level of play, my pick would be:

 

1). Peters  

2). Khudobin

3). Ward  (And I wear his jersey with pride!)

 

Cam is in a funk but we need wins!  If Khudobin comes up and impresses, make him #1 and swap Cam and Justin out periodically.

 

My .2 cents!

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Oh, I'll save myself a lot of typing by just adding one of these  :thumbsup:  to most of TheRavens recent posts.  I've found a lot of his thought to be very much in synch with mine.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I think its funny how Kudo is 2-0 and everyone thinks he's our hero. Ward loses 2 and he should be traded, Peters wins a few and he should be the starter. Just saying, evey goalie has winning streaks and losing streaks, I think Kudo has great potential but i got to see him play about 10 or 15 games before I want to keep him over Ward or Peters. Which is what I think JR and Muller are doing, they want to see him play some before making final decison on who's being traded. Peters has proved himself to be pretty darn good this year through a long stretch, thats enough to earn most goalies a permanent job, hard to give him up, we all know if Wardo can fight his mental setbacks and get a good team in front of him he could be amazing too. Decisions, decisions, I don't think anyone knows what to do at this point. Was i supposed to put this on the goalie thread? Oh well, everyone else talking goalies here.

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Ward has been inconsistent for years now. I will even go as far as to say he is starting to not be a legit NHL starting goalie. I recall him having maybe 1 or 2 above average seasons. The year he won the cup he did not carry us to the post season. Gerber did. People tend to forget that. 6 to 6.5m a year warrants top 15 numbers. Cam is far from that. This guy is a professional. There comes a point where we need to stop making excuses. Because not only is his play hurting the team but his contract is as well...

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Ward has been inconsistent for years now. I will even go as far as to say he is starting to not be a legit NHL starting goalie. I recall him having maybe 1 or 2 above average seasons. The year he won the cup he did not carry us to the post season. Gerber did. People tend to forget that. 6 to 6.5m a year warrants top 15 numbers. Cam is far from that. This guy is a professional. There comes a point where we need to stop making excuses. Because not only is his play hurting the team but his contract is as well...

 

Just can't agree with ya on this one. I see a great number one goaltender who has had garbage teams and bad D in front of himgh the years but still managed to shine a couple of those years. Than a couple injuries that keep him from playing long stretches and he struggles. Now since he's been back he has shown flashes of his potential and I think he is close to being on top of his game again. Its been hard though because he hasn't had a great stretch to play, and it seems the last few games he's played the team in front of him is at their worst. Obvioulsy Muller and JR feel the same way which is why he's starting tonight and continues to get put in. I am frustrated and do expect way more out of our 6 million dollar goalie but think it would be a huge mistake to trade him and rely on Kudo, who is coming off a major injury and has not yet proved himself in the NHL especially after injury NHL, or Peters, who stunk last year, has been great this year but gives up rebounds galore which is gonna catch up with him eventually.

Ward is better than both of them, he needs to get his confidence and mind right and he needs the team to play better in front of him so he's not playing nervous hockey all the time. If we could just get on a good feeling confident roll where the goal scorers are scoring than I believe Ward will prove his worth.

Edited by danimal-ch1

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So I its been a while since I looked at Cam's career numbers to see if he's really been that bad. Here They are:

05-06 14-8-2 3.68

06-07 30-21-6 2.93

07-08 37-25-5 2.75

08-09 39-23-11 2.44

10-11 37-26-14 2.56

11-12 30-23-18 2.74

12-13 9-6-1 2.84

13-14 5-7-5 3.10

career 219-162-52-21 .910 2.76

playoff career 23-18-4-.917 2.38

Sorry but those are not numbers of a goal tender thats failing us year after year like some suggest. Those are work horse winning numbers that should have gotten us into the playoffs a few times if the back up goalie would have done their job and won 12 or so games(remember every backup we've had for last 6 years had horrible losing records). He is a career winning goaltender and a shines in the playoffs and makes plenty of highlight real saves, I'm just not ready to give up on him yet. I'm sure almost any NHL team would gladly take him off our hands.

Sorry tried to edit to make it easier to read but wouldn't let me do it.

Edited by danimal-ch1

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Well boys and girls, here are the the latest stats...   
 
The fact-based data tells the story!
 
Anyone with an open mind will see the problem 
(others will make excuses and/or even try and attack a long time season ticket holder LOL)...
 
 
JUSTIN PETERS         n=20;  GAA=2.38;   SAVE%=92.2;         CAP SPACE = 500,000
CAM WARD                n=18;  GAA=3.10;   SAVE%=89.8;      CAP SPACE = 6,500,000
ANTON KHUDOBIN     n=3;    GAA=2.00;   SAVE%=92.9;          CAP SPACE = 800,000
 
 
Ranking on each vital metric (within the team)...
 
SAVE %
#1 KHUDOBIN (best)
#2 PETERS
#3 WARD (worst)
 
 
GOALS AGAINST
#1 KHUDOBIN (best)
#2 PETERS
#3 WARD (worst)
 
 
SALARY CAP HOG
#1 PETERS (best)
#2 KHUDOBIN 
#3 WARD (easily the worst)
 
 
NHL LEAGUE-WIDE RANKINGS...
 
GAA
PETERS 18th Best (out of 45)
WARD   41st Best (out of 45)
 
SALARY
Cam Ward = 4th HIGHEST PAID GOALIE in the NHL (argh!!!!)
 
SAVE PCT
PETERS 12th Best (out of 45)
WARD   42nd Best (out of 45)
 

Only question: is any team des·per·ate enuff to take Cam and his team draining $6.5-mil salary (via a trade).
If not, we're stuck with him until the buy-out window re-opens!!  Then, we'll have millions to rebuild this team!!


Go Canes!!!   

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