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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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Ward has been inconsistent for years now. I will even go as far as to say he is starting to not be a legit NHL starting goalie. I recall him having maybe 1 or 2 above average seasons. The year he won the cup he did not carry us to the post season. Gerber did. People tend to forget that. 6 to 6.5m a year warrants top 15 numbers. Cam is far from that. This guy is a professional. There comes a point where we need to stop making excuses. Because not only is his play hurting the team but his contract is as well...

 

Um, no. The Canes team of 06 is a completely different animal. And The Canes won the Cup by having a good TANDEM of goalkeepers. Gerber was the #1 goalie throughout most of the season. But that Canes team outscored the heck out of the opposition most nights. Ward was MVP of the playoffs, first rookie goaltender since Roy. Maybe Ward didn't carry the team TO the post season, but he certainly carried then THROUGH the post season.

 

I really don't think Ward is done or is not a legitimate NHL starting goaltender. And, if JR wanted to move him, he could. It wouldn't be easy with the salary cap but a few teams who don't have a legit #1 would absolutely jump at the opportunity to acquire Cam Ward.

 

That being said, I agree with the small contingent that says we need to give Ward a string of games so he can build his confidence and get some consistency. Why can't I use the same excuse that others used? You can't play a goalie once every 6 games and expect great results. When Ward and Khudobin got injured and Peters was brought up, he looked horrible. But, they had to ride him. JR historically has had no faith in Peters and he doesn't this year. They gave DiPietro a try-out which was a bust, but that told me that JR didn't think Peters could handle the job.

 

My best bet... Peters is traded unless JR can't find a taker. In that case he's waived to be sent back down, and likely picked up off waivers.

 

Bottom line: I want to see WINS, I don't care if Tripp Tracy is in net.

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Bottom line: I want to see WINS, I don't care if Tripp Tracy is in net.

 

That might work.  The other team would be so distracted by all the talking that our D will finally be able to carry the puck out of the zone with ease.

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Well boys and girls, here are the the latest stats...   
 
The fact-based data tells the story!
 
Anyone with an open mind will see the problem 
(others will make excuses and/or even try and attack a long time season ticket holder LOL)...
 
 
JUSTIN PETERS         n=20;  GAA=2.38;   SAVE%=92.2;         CAP SPACE = 500,000
CAM WARD                n=18;  GAA=3.10;   SAVE%=89.8;      CAP SPACE = 6,500,000
ANTON KHUDOBIN     n=3;    GAA=2.00;   SAVE%=92.9;          CAP SPACE = 800,000
 
 
Ranking on each vital metric (within the team)...
 
SAVE %
#1 KHUDOBIN (best)
#2 PETERS
#3 WARD (worst)
 
 
GOALS AGAINST
#1 KHUDOBIN (best)
#2 PETERS
#3 WARD (worst)
 
 
SALARY CAP HOG
#1 PETERS (best)
#2 KHUDOBIN 
#3 WARD (easily the worst)
 
 
NHL LEAGUE-WIDE RANKINGS...
 
GAA
PETERS 18th Best (out of 45)
WARD   41st Best (out of 45)
 
SALARY
Cam Ward = 4th HIGHEST PAID GOALIE in the NHL (argh!!!!)
 
SAVE PCT
PETERS 12th Best (out of 45)
WARD   42nd Best (out of 45)
 

Only question: is any team des·per·ate enuff to take Cam and his team draining $6.5-mil salary (via a trade).

If not, we're stuck with him until the buy-out window re-opens!!  Then, we'll have millions to rebuild this team!!

Go Canes!!!   

 

OK, since we're going fact based here... let's stretch it out a little....

 

CAREER NHL TOTALS

Peters GP 67  WINS 22 LOSSES 31   OT 8 SO 3 GA 185  SA 1,942 SV% .905 GAA 3.01

 

Ward GP 449 WINS 219 LOSSES 162   OT 52  SO 21 GA 1,179 SA 13,083 SV% .910 GAA 2.76

 

 

Khudobin GP 24 WINS 16 LOSSES 5    OT 1 SO 2 GA 43 SA 637 SV% .932 GAA 2.03

 

 

So, if we take this at face value... Khudobin is the best goaltender The Canes have, right?

 

What this does show you is that Ward has slightly better numbers than Peters over a MUUUUCH LARGER body of work. What it doesn't show you is Peters work in 2010-2011 when he was 3-5 with a Save % of .875 and a GGA of 3.98 OR his work last year when he was 4-11 with a Save % of .891 and a GAA of 3.46.

 

I'm in no way saying Peters is not a capable goaltender... I'm saying that your "facts" are skewed, your "vital" metrics are based on 2 whole games played by Khudobin.

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Looks like Cam is out again with a Lower Body Injury after last nights game. He did not travel with the team for the two away games. Looks like we will see who wants to be the Man in net now... This should prove interesting with a new JM Liles, no Gleason and a healthy Khudobin in net.

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Looks like Cam is out again with a Lower Body Injury after last nights game. He did not travel with the team for the two away games. Looks like we will see who wants to be the Man in net now... This should prove interesting with a new JM Liles, no Gleason and a healthy Khudobin in net.

On the plus side, Muller said it's not a re-aggravation of Ward's groin injury, and he'll only miss the road trip. Next game should be interesting indeed.

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If the Ward injury is indeed minor and JR is on the trade war path, and w/ Nash out for 7-10 days, and in a few days we'll be back to 3 goalies. I wonder if JR just goes ahead and moves Peters as part of a trade for the 3rd line center, and just rides Khudoben until Cam gets back....

 

Risk: Cam is out longer than expected and Khudoben gets injured again...

 

But gotta take some risks. There's always Muse.

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What I fear is the back injury is rearing its head again. I can tell you first hand as someone who suffers from chronic back issues is when you tweak it you never know when it goes from a tweak to "I cant get up on my skates". Way too early to tell but I was watching Cam intently after a save and he wasn't moving the same and I thought he had injured the groin again but this may be much worse long term.

Time will tell what the issue is... 

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If the Ward injury is indeed minor and JR is on the trade war path, and w/ Nash out for 7-10 days, and in a few days we'll be back to 3 goalies. I wonder if JR just goes ahead and moves Peters as part of a trade for the 3rd line center, and just rides Khudoben until Cam gets back....

 

Risk: Cam is out longer than expected and Khudoben gets injured again...

 

But gotta take some risks. There's always Muse.

 

Well... Ward didn't travel with the team. The bigger risk is dressing one goalie for a game. IMO, no goalie is moved until all are healthy.

 

If JR moves a goalie today, it would be a mad dash to get a goalie from Charlotte, and get a goalie from the ECHL to get another goalie in Charlotte.

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Well... Ward didn't travel with the team. The bigger risk is dressing one goalie for a game. IMO, no goalie is moved until all are healthy.

 

If JR moves a goalie today, it would be a mad dash to get a goalie from Charlotte, and get a goalie from the ECHL to get another goalie in Charlotte.

I'm assuming Muse would come up rather than Mike Murphy.  The Checkers signed Rob Madore to a try out contract end of November until Mike  Murphy came back off of IR.  Madore is in the ECHL and played 9 games with Charlotte last year. I'd guess they'd bring him back until Muse was available again. 

 

OR, last I heard, Rick DiPietro was available :P .

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I thought Dobby was a little rusty last night but not shaky. More importantly he wasn't shaken after that flurry of Cap goals. He made some timely saves including the penalty shot by Ov.  Overall not a bad game considering how long he has been out.

 

I'm thinking Peters gets the start on the Island but I could be wrong.

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Here's what had me optimistic about Ward (and hopeful that he may still have something left to contribute): immediately after he came back from the injury, starting about 10 minutes into the Boston game and ending with about 10 minutes to go in the NJ game, he played brilliantly for 3 & 2/3 games, going 2-1-1 in the process (with the loss & OT loss coming against Boston).  And yes, I mean stand on your head, NHL elite goaltending over that 3.66 game span.  We all know how he's played since then :thumbdown: .  So what's the difference? Is it something physical, or is it his psyche? . . .

 

After learning that Ward is out again (and not due to the groin injury), I wonder if the change in the quality of his play between his first 4 games back and since then might be due to playing with a tweaked back? We know he's had that problem in the past, and I could see him wanting to play through an injury due to pressure from Peters great play at the time.  Pure speculation . . .     

Edited by LakeLivin

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Forslund said Cam wasn't feeling well when he woke up on New Year's day.  His other comments suggested he wasn't at 100% before that game anyway.  I don't think he tweaked anything.

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Peters    .922

Wardo     .895

Khudobin  .928

 

And yes, that extra 3% (Ward vs PDawg and K-man) is HUGE... it amounts to allowing almost an EXTRA goal per game!

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vezina_zps67b7bd3a.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just having a little fun with you Greg-n-ral ;)

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Cam isnt playing like Cam, but i know if he  goes, he plays like the ole Cam, just have that feeling

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My theory on the Cam Ward situation - I know, I know I can't help myself - I see it coming out to 3 scenarios:

 

1. Part 1: Ward continues to struggle and the team lightly shops him to see what the value is. His contract, injury history, and recent play suggest it's low and he's not worth moving. They move Peters or Khudobin and a player to get a player back (so they don't lose Peters or Khudobin for something that won't help the team NOW, Peters or Khudo straight up for a player won't work due to their low cap hits). Ward backs up if he can't find his game (at least for the remainder of the season) and the team heavily relies on remaining other goalie to win games.

Part 2: In the offseason, with cap ceiling increasing, the team resumes shopping him and trades him for the best return possible (not going to be anywhere near what fans believe he is worth). If no one wants him, we either use our compliance buyout on him and lose him for nothing, while paying part of his salary still (but doesn't affect our cap due to the compliance part) or we keep him and see if he can rebound. If he doesn't rebound we're screwed.

 

2. Ward finds his game, JR makes same move as above. The other goalie left splits time with Ward depending on their play.

 

3. Ward gets traded for a similar cap, similar situation (injury and recent poor play) and hope they rebound on a new team. Highly doubtful.

 

Back onto topic (sort of) IF Cam Ward was trying to play through an injury this whole time, he's got to go. If you're not 100%, don't play. I don't care what anyone else may think, you should always act on what gives the team the best chance to win, and playing injured (especially as a goalie) certainly doesn't give your team the best chance to win. Personal stuff like trying to keep your starting job shouldn't blind you from doing what the team needs over what you need. Again, I AM NOT SAYING Cam is doing this, just my opinion on if he was. Unacceptable if that's the case.

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Some members of this board (no names please) mostly post to tell us about all the players they don't like. Jordan Staal and Cam come to mind. Probably were on the "trade Skinner" bandwagon before the season too. So I'm on board. Let's forget where we were with Cam last year vs. Where we ended up w/Peters, let's forget 2006 playoffs and 2009 playoffs, and let's trade Cam for a bucket of pucks to shed that horrible contract. Let's pray Khudobin turns out to be an upper echelon NHL goalie (not ruling it out but he has a sample size of 20 or so NHL games), and only judge Peters on a dozen starts this season, and ignore his 6-7 year NHL and AHL career. Stanley Cup here we come!

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First and foremost, I am a huge Cam Ward supporter.  With that being said; however, I think this year he has had Olympic problems.  No doubt Cam was driven to come into this season and impress the Canadian National Team, in the hopes of making the Olympic team.  His early season injury hurt those chances.  Perhaps he came back too soon in an effort to get that woo back.  I think its clear now that he hasn't made the team, and hopefully we can get on with our season.  Cam, get better.   Go Canes!!!!!!

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A goalie has a psyche, unlike  wingers,and the the other  guys... Sure, it took a hit with the bad play, and he had the Olympics, on his mind.... Im worried now, this will be a chronic injury, i guess its the back... Time will tell...

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Diver, I agree wholeheartedly.  I wish they were not so secretive about what these injuries are, so it is hard to tell if Cam has aggravated something, or just tweaked an ankle or something minor. I still think he's our guy. Funny how many years he stayed healthy playing 70 games a year, and now he can't stay healthy 2 weeks, but hopefully that will be in the past when comes back again soon.

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Cam did just have an MRI of something. Whatever it was, it was negative (in a good way). 

 

We need him back if for no other reason than to trade Peters.

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