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Greg-N-Ral

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Kyrule, i was scrolling down praying i wouldn't be the 1st one to point out how completely stupid it would be to trade an undefeated goalie with out of the world stats.  Seriously, this season in a nutshell should be proof about why we don't need cam.  I've never been on the pro or anti-trade cam debate, but now i'm all for it.

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Try this trade on for size.  I think I am being realistic as for expected returns.  Feel free to shoot me down everyone :)

 

Cam Ward and our first round pick next year to either:

 

Edmonton for their 1st round pick OR

Calgary for their 1st round pick

 

I would love to get more but I really don't think we can.  Perhaps they might be able to pull out another pick from those teams such as a 5th to 7th rounder.

 

Here's my reasoning:

 

1)  Both those teams NEED a #1 goalie that has a name that would please their fan base.

 

2)  Both those teams have a lot of young talent already drafted so giving up a top 3 pick might be more acceptable.

 

3)  Carolina will save $6 million on their salary cap and not take in any salary so free to use at will

 

4)  Cam being from Western Canada even though probably unhappy with a trade might be happy to go back 'closer' to his home town.

 

5)  Carolina would probably get a top 3 pick

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Try this trade on for size......

Without copying in your entire quote, I think that is actually not a terrible idea. It dumps salary for better players up front and allows us to build in a new player/high draft pick. Remember, the cap is going to increase next season so we could really spend some money to acquire an elite forward. There are some really good players coming into the draft next year. If you're looking for a center, wing, or d-man, you can find it in the top 5. Aaron Ekblad is a MONSTER d-man who is a month away from his 18th birthday is already 6' 5" and 215 lbs. Anyway, your idea isn't "crazy" by any means. Khudobin is proving he may be ready to be a starter. Remember, Boston felt he was "there", but they had Rask in front of him. Ward ain't no Rask right now.....nor has he been for some time. Love Ward, but if Khudobin and Peters can platoon this thing, I'd be in a position to let Ward go.  Especially if we could grab a guy like Thornton (dreaming) to play center on the top liine and feed E. Staal, who I'd move to wing....OKya, pipe dream, but you get the point. At least you're thinking! I like it!  :thumbsup2:

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Ya know if we tank next year which this team is often times good at doing, that's giving away Cam essentially for free.

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I myself would rather the Canes trade Cam for another veteran on the offensive side of the puck.  We have enough young players and the Canes really don't need to get 1st round pick that my take a season or so to make a difference. Canes need to start making the playoffs!  Boychuk is starting to step up, Bellmore,Sutter are  playing good so if the Canes could get 1 or 2 players like Malholtra, that to me would really help!!

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Unfortunately, it is never about what we want. You have to look at what other teams need and see what they are willing to give back on a trade and that is what mgmt. will consider. Right now, as of today, Khudobin would be what another team would want.

 

1) He is VERY HOT right now. (6-0-0)

2) He doesn't have a huge contract another team would have to figure out a way to fit under their salary cap.

 

You also have to consider trading partners for any goalie, and who needs a starter, not a backup. Personally, I don't want to see any of our goalies go to a Eastern Conference team. Send whoever West. Calgary and Edmonton are really the only teams out West that could possibly need a starting goalie as neither have an established starter.

 

If we were to trade to a Eastern Conference team, you're talking Buffalo (Miller is probably on his way out), Florida )Thomas is getting up there), or New York Islanders (Nabakov, same as Thomas). All other teams have established starting goalies.

 

A team is not going to want Cam as a backup, not at his contract, and like here, if would hamper any team's ability to sign other players in the coming future. Cam's contract is for two more years at 6.3mil. That alone will scare other team's off, unless the Canes were to agree to pay part of that salary, which I don't see happening.

Edited by hopper915

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When we went out and got Dobby in the off-season it was to sign a reliable backup, push Ward and challenge for the starting job.  We didn't know that Dobby would take over so soon but I expect we did expect he would be our future. Why on earth would we trade Khudobin now.

 

The debate now is who should we trade Ward or Peters. I still think Peters is the smart play to move but if we go the other way, so be it. If we do trade Ward I wouldn't keep any salary. We have a compliance buyout out the end of the season and that won't count against our cap. Peters won't get us a great deal in return but can probable be moved if needed easier then Ward.

 

I still haven't given up on Ward. I have seen too many goalies over the years seem to lose their game only to resurrect themselves into a dependable and steady goalie. I think Ward is still capable of playing big. Ward also steps up at playoff time.

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I myself would rather the Canes trade Cam for another veteran on the offensive side of the puck.  We have enough young players and the Canes really don't need to get 1st round pick that my take a season or so to make a difference. Canes need to start making the playoffs!  Boychuk is starting to step up, Bellmore,Sutter are  playing good so if the Canes could get 1 or 2 players like Malholtra, that to me would really help!!

With my trade mentioned above we get the early 1st round pick plus 6 million cap space to make a trade.  It may not help this season but that 6 million can be used to get a very nice veteran forward in the off season by ways of Free Agency.

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Unfortunately, it is never about what we want. You have to look at what other teams need and see what they are willing to give back on a trade and that is what mgmt. will consider. Right now, as of today, Khudobin would be what another team would want.

 

A few nights ago on XM radio powerplay, Phil Esposito hit on this.  A caller got on and said something like, "I think we should trade player X to team Y for player Z."

 

Phil popped his lid.  It was awesome.

 

He started playing GM and said, "Why the hell would I want Player Z???  Really?"  He played this game with the caller for about a 1/2 minute asking for other players.  Phil especially wanted player A.  The caller was getting nervous, because he didn't want player A -- the one Phil would trade X for -- to be traded. 

 

It was great theatre.  Phil then told the caller that's how GM conversations go.  He then went off a bit on how we (callers, internet board posters, fantasy players, etc.) have no idea how difficult it is to make these trades, especially in today's world.

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A few nights ago on XM radio powerplay, Phil Esposito hit on this.  A caller got on and said something like, "I think we should trade player X to team Y for player Z."

 

Phil popped his lid.  It was awesome.

 

He started playing GM and said, "Why the hell would I want Player Z???  Really?"  He played this game with the caller for about a 1/2 minute asking for other players.  Phil especially wanted player A.  The caller was getting nervous, because he didn't want player A -- the one Phil would trade X for -- to be traded. 

 

It was great theatre.  Phil then told the caller that's how GM conversations go.  He then went off a bit on how we (callers, internet board posters, fantasy players, etc.) have no idea how difficult it is to make these trades, especially in today's world.

 

Ding, ding, ding! This should be required reading for anybody who says "We need to trade Player X because he is terrible!" Um, if he's terrible NOBODY WANTS HIM!

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I'm pretty sure any trade is made by calling and going "What will it take to get Player X?" Then the two sides go back and forth trying to determine value and equality in return. Nothing will come of it initially most likely, but it does open up a little door in the back of the other GMs head that this guy wants Player X and if I ever feel the need to move him later on he may be the best option.

Most fans see trades as one GM going to another with a player they want to move and ask what they can get for that player. I doubt it works that way. That's shopping a player, not making a trade. Moving one of our goalies is going to take some shopping.

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I'm pretty sure any trade is made by calling and going "What will it take to get Player X?" Then the two sides go back and forth trying to determine value and equality in return. Nothing will come of it initially most likely, but it does open up a little door in the back of the other GMs head that this guy wants Player X and if I ever feel the need to move him later on he may be the best option.

Most fans see trades as one GM going to another with a player they want to move and ask what they can get for that player. I doubt it works that way. That's shopping a player, not making a trade. Moving one of our goalies is going to take some shopping.

 

Yeah.  Apparently the Leafs always want Skinner.  What would it take?  Interesting answer there...

 

Phil was Tampa's GM and he plays this GM simulation game a lot when callers start throwing around trades.  It is always a lot of fun.  And Phil doesn't take any crap, so some callers find themselves boxed into a corner pretty fast.  It is very cool.

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Cam is building up quite a history of injuries. I don't know if this is the reason for his inconsistent play, and his seemingly lack of concentration. Injuries, poor concentration, inconsistent play, plus a high salary seem like four strikes against him. I like Cam. He was  a huge part of the greatest season in Canes history, but if I were a GM for another team, picking up Cam would be a huge gamble. I would hate to bank my future on a goalie that can't stay healthy. If we trade Cam, I don't think we get much back.

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I'm pretty sure any trade is made by calling and going "What will it take to get Player X?" Then the two sides go back and forth trying to determine value and equality in return. Nothing will come of it initially most likely, but it does open up a little door in the back of the other GMs head that this guy wants Player X and if I ever feel the need to move him later on he may be the best option.

Most fans see trades as one GM going to another with a player they want to move and ask what they can get for that player. I doubt it works that way. That's shopping a player, not making a trade. Moving one of our goalies is going to take some shopping.

 

I doubt one GM lets another GM determine the value of their player.  I would think a GM already has a certain value in mind before he makes that call.

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I doubt anyone who thinks they know what goes on in trade discussions knows anything about what goes on.  That was kind of Phil's point. I listen to the PP as much as I can, and I love it when he does that.  Anyway, you won't ever see a trade propsal from me.  :)

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Just saw something interesting about Khudobin. He may have been in the Hurricanes system.

Played for the Florida Everblades in 2008-09. 18-10-1, sv%.907; GAA 2.71.

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Cam is building up quite a history of injuries. I don't know if this is the reason for his inconsistent play, and his seemingly lack of concentration. Injuries, poor concentration, inconsistent play, plus a high salary seem like four strikes against him. I like Cam. He was  a huge part of the greatest season in Canes history, but if I were a GM for another team, picking up Cam would be a huge gamble. I would hate to bank my future on a goalie that can't stay healthy. If we trade Cam, I don't think we get much back.

Agree...  

but... 

If we could somehow trade Ward, we'd instantly get $6.5-mill in cap space back --- and that's certainly a lot!!

Anything else coming our way in a trade for Ward-o would be total "icing on the cake."

 

Examples: 
If we had traded Cam (for a bag of pucks) before this year,
then we would have been well positioned to pick up say...
 
Nathan Horton  and 1-year of Jaromir Jagr.
or
Vincent Lecavalier and 1-year of Jaromir Jagr.
 
 
 
Now...  lets imagine the Canes with Horton on the 2nd line with Jordan and Jaromir Jagr on the 3rd wing!
 
Or, how about the Canes having 3 Centers with 
Staal
Staal
Lecavalier
 
And Jagr on Jordan's line??
 
Clearly all these combo's make us a better team --- instead we have Cam riding the pines (and or playing with a sub-91% save pct)!!
 
 
The net result? 
CAM for a bag of pucks still works (for us).
 

 

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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Trading Cam - even if anybody would take on his salary, which they would not - would be insane. For better or worse, we threw in our lot with him to the tune of 6-mil-plus per year. That is reality. The discussions here about trading him, on the other hand, are sheer fantasy. A bag of pucks? Really, Greg-N-Ral? Have you any idea now crazy that makes you sound?

 

The facts are these:

 

1) Cam is here unless someone calls US (not vice versa) expressing interest, and even then they have a mountain to climb in order to get him.

2) Cam can (and probably will) play his way back to consistency (he's still ridiculously young as goalies go), and

3) In the end, Peters will be the odd man out.

 

Nothing has changed since the season began. Yes, Peters got some games and enhanced his value on the trade market. But he was never going to be with the big club as the backup - that was Khudo's job to lose, and he surely has not. Does anyone really believe JR doesn't have (or that Cam has not earned) at least enough loyalty that he wouldn't be offered the backup job and a chance to continue working back to number-one status, if Khudo became the interim number one? Blaming Cam for JR's failure to have a true-to-life number two who could spell Cam against weaker teams and get wins over the past five years is crazy, and I think JR will take responsibility for that.  

 

The ONLY scenario under which I see Peters being in Raleigh after the trade deadline is if Cam's injury is season-ending. If that is the case, the smartest thing the team could do would be to get him the treatment/surgery he needs right now, so he can get a leg up on his recupe/rehab and be ready for next season. If that's how it goes down, Peters is then traded in the off-season, or, if he can't continue playing at his recent level, returned to CLT. And if Cam were to take a "medical leave" for the rest of the season, the only way JR even *thinks* about not trading Peters is if he were to play a significant number of games behind and Khudo AND we got at least to the third round.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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:goodpost:



Agree...  

but... 

If we could somehow trade Ward, we'd instantly get $6.5-mill in cap space back --- and that's certainly a lot!!

Anything else coming our way in a trade for Ward-o would be total "icing on the cake."
 

Examples: 
If we had traded Cam (for a bag of pucks) before this year,
then we would have been well positioned to pick up say...
 
Nathan Horton  and 1-year of Jaromir Jagr.
or
Vincent Lecavalier and 1-year of Jaromir Jagr.
 
 
 
Now...  lets imagine the Canes with Horton on the 2nd line with Jordan and Jaromir Jagr on the 3rd wing!
 
Or, how about the Canes having 3 Centers with 
Staal
Staal
Lecavalier
 
And Jagr on Jordan's line??
 
Clearly all these combo's make us a better team --- instead we have Cam riding the pines (and or playing with a sub-91% save pct)!!
 
 
The net result? 
CAM for a bag of pucks still works (for us).

:screwy:

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"Trading Cam - even if anybody would take on his salary, which they would not - would be insane. "

 

Yep, it would be insane to free up $6.5 in cap space to land a player or two (the likes of Horton, Jagr, Vinny, etc...)  Yep, having future lines with talent like that plus the Staals, Semin, Skinner, Gerbe Lindholm, Manny etc. that sure is insane alright!

Having strength down the middle such as 

1: Eric

2: Jordan 

3: Vinny

4) and Manny

OMG... Yep, that would be insane alright!

Not to mention Jagr with Jordan... totally insane to think about how they can actually improve this team

:dizzy:  (right... lets stay with Cam... after all, some diehard fans still hope and believe in him right? He's magically going to come back and grow into an elite goalie some day...  he'll make it to top 5 status right?  Guys, that's insane --- trying the same old same old with little to nothing to show for it for 7 years and still hoping)

 

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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The sheer fact that both Peters and Khudobin are UFA's after the season makes trading Cam right now idiotic.  Peters will likely eventually be the odd-man out. 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Maybe you could try addressing his entire post rather then just one line.

Don't hold your breath, legend. I've seen Greg-N-Ral's type of BS all over the Internet - mainly on Facebook, actually. He;s got nothing, yet keeps tryin' to sell it.  

Edited by top-shelf-1

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The sheer fact that both Peters and Khudobin are UFA's after the season makes trading Cam right now idiotic.  Peters will likely eventually be the odd-man out. 

 

 

Sure, but we certainly can sign K-man now so that would not be the case.  

Ditto Peters.

And having an extra $3-$4 mill/year in cap space will make this team better.

If you cant get it, then all I can say is good luck "hoping and believing in Cam..."   "maybe some day he'll become elite (top-5)..."

Facebook? LOL...  me...never use it...   

 

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" :screwy:"

 

Well said, HockeyBaby :) If this team can't generate enough offense with its current lineup, trading Cam - who again, nobody is going to give up any of the players listed to get - won't do it either. On top of which, Greg-N-Ral's anti-Cam diatribes consistently ignore the one thing he brings to the table neither Khudo nor Peters do: Carrying the team to a Stanley Cup. 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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