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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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Some thoughts:

 

  • I agree, neither Ward or Khudini is going anywhere right now unless we get a ridiculous offer for one of them, or we drop out of the playoff hunt.  Karmanos put up the $ for a playoff run this year and Muller (and maybe even JR) knows his job might be on the line if we don't make it. 
  • If you look back at Pete's usage since Kudo came back, it's clear that mgmt doesn't have a lot of faith in him in important games (and they're all important at this point).  I'm not saying it was his fault, but Pete lost 2 in a row and gave up 4 goals each in games on Dec. 23rd & 27th (respective save % of .840 &.846).  Then, coming off of IR, Kudo played Dec. 29, 30 (in Charlotte), Jan 2, 4, 5, 9, 10, 13 and 18.  If Pete was in the plans, you've got to believe that he'd have gotten one of the back to backs on the 4th and 5th (Isles and Preds) in order to keep him fresh and to give Kudo a break given that he was just coming off of IR.  Or at least one of the back to backs on the 9th and 10th (Toronto and Columbus).  I think Pete's start on the 19th against TB (3 goals on 7 shots against) was a last chance shot (although I don't know what was expected of him after not playing for over 3 weeks).  By that point, I've got to believe his confidence was shot, and I get the feeling that's more of a factor with Peters then with many other goalies.   At this point I can't see mgmt considering Peters for anything other than an emergency backup role, and I don't trust Ward or Khudini's durability enough at this point to not want a 1B option behind them rather than an emergency backup. 

Note that I'm not trying to run Pete down; I do appreciate what he's done this season.  But based on their actions, it seems pretty clear what managements view is at this point.  Personally, unless we get a decent offer for Peters, I'm for keeping 3 goalies on the roster for a while (although it would be nice to be able to access Palushaj and/ or Boychuk a bit more to see what they might add). 

  • Sending Ward down makes sense to me.  Only a game or two might be needed, but it also seems like it allows him the opportunity for him to get some game action in over at least part of the the break (I think).  Also, I've got to wonder if sending Ward down might have been a smart political move on behalf of management.  Sounds like Kudo initially didn't want to go down for a conditioning stint but was talked into it.  What would it say to Kudo if we're trying to sell him on a 1A/ 1B arrangement with Ward if we didn't ask Ward to accept a conditioning stint after we asked Kudo to head to Charlotte?
  • Some people have mentioned Murphy and Muse in Charlotte.  Looking at his performance so far this year I've got to believe that Murphy is essentially out of the big picture.  He's having a terrible year, to the point that I'll be surprised if he's back next year.  Muse is looking good, and is clearly the Checkers #1 at this point.          
Edited by LakeLivin

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Just saw Ward chose #1 for his Checkers jersey. 

 

Maybe all this is just a mental thing and maybe he just needs to go down to Charlotte and get his head back in the game and trust where his body is health-wise.  At least that's what I think.

 

And maybe we just might need a different approach to coaching these tenders.  I think Cam really misses Barasso.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I wonder about carrying 3 goalies. In the end I suspect it will come down to two things:

 

1. What, if any offers does JR get for any of them, but especially Peters. 

2. What does management think of John Muse? 

 

The real reason to carry three goalies is because we might need our third stringer again, and I suppose, IF management still holds any hope for Peters next year, as a back up to losing Khudini. But if Peters can't even garner more than a second round pick, we could just pick up another back up off the FA heap or make a similar trade for a back up if all that doesn't work out, so really it is just insurance against another double barrel goalie injury.

 

Holding Peters in third string capacity does nothing for his stock. He also won't be playing....at all....ever.  

Peters would have value to us if we could send him down at some point. Keep playing just in case...

But in the press box? 

 

Again, another reason to try Peters vs. MTL. Maybe he has one of those games and his stock goes up. Can't go down much. But that ship has sailed.

 

I can see carrying Peters to the trade deadline if the offers are weak, but frankly can't see keeping him past that, at least not not in Raleigh. Pure speculation again, but don't see a lot of teams carrying 3 goalies.

 

I also wonder about the psychologic effect of carrying a dead weight goalie on the roster for long. 

 

The Checkers will have had 9 goalies suit up after Cam plays. Some of that rehab, some of that the organization sifting around for another back up. 

 

John Muse is roughly the #10 goalie in the AHL on stats. Not bad. .922 save percentage.

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coastal, that has been my thought for quite some time now. I just think that Cam's problems started when         barasso was replaced, and personally, I don't think that Cam and Stefan are complementary to each other. Wouldn't it seem reasonable, that prior to trashing a $6 million investment, that you might want to  consider replacing the goalie coach?

 

As to the goalie conundrum, it appears to be at a "no win" crossroad, particularly if the assumption is correct that Khodobin will accept nothing less that a #1 spot. Too, if JR does in fact hold on to all 3 thru the season, than it's obvious that we'll either be selling Cam short in any trade, or Kodo walks for nothing(obviously picked up by one of several goalie starved franchises). That leaves us with Peters, whom most, including yours truly, do not feel can be effective as a backup in the NHL.

 

That brings up another question, with Khodobin only signed for this year, and Peters not looking promising for a role in the NHL, how does anyone envision making a trade using either one, either solo or incombination with any other player?

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I don't think we will carry 3 goalies at all (if we do then just up to the trade deadline).  Someone just mentioned getting a 2nd round pick for Peters which I don't think is possible at all....Perhaps a 4th to 7th round pick.  Peters has done amazing things for the Canes this year but his value, though probably as high as it has ever been is really not that valuable to other teams other than as insurance for a starter.  

 

Carrying 3 goalies is not fair to Peters development as well.  Knowing that you are on the NHL club as a back up to a back up and not even getting game time in the NHL or AHL must not feel great for a professional.  

 

All this to say if he is not traded I think the team will send him done to the AHL and what happens happens on the waivers wire.  Probably get snatched up for nothing in the end.

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Cam's first game with the Checkers was a loss, 1-0.

I watched a lot of it. The Checkers basically hung out in the Penalty box all night and had no offense.

 

Paul Branecky had a nice write-up about it. 

 

http://www.gocheckers.com/game-recaps/564-checkers-shut-out-in-ward-s-debut.html

 

The game’s only goal came with five minutes left in the first period when the Monsters’ Brad Malone found Paul Carey all alone in the slot for a one-timer – one that Ward, who was playing his first AHL game since Dec. 18, 2005, would have needed to make an outstanding save to stop. The 2006 Stanley Cup champion did just that throughout the game, including a shorthanded breakaway save in the first period, a two-on-one stop in the third and a flashy glove save down the stretch that gave the Checkers more than enough time to find their first goal.

Edited by Gejustin

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Doby was looking really, really good last night.  A lot of times he commits way fast and gets out of position in scary ways.  Not so much last night.  And he also had some 10 bell timely saves.

 

He put on a hell of a display of goaltending last night.   It is very clear why Pete Dawg is #3 -- if that.

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I saw a little of the Chex game and thought Ward looked alright. His positioning was good, timing was alright and movement fine. He made some nice saves. I think he will still need another game or two to get back to NHL speed but not a bad first outing after such a long layoff. I think he has changed his approach a little. I'm not sure but he looked a little different in net.

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Cam needs to find his game fast. .....

Well, the truth is he never did.....   and the organization has went 10-4 without him around.  

Now image that $6-million spent on a stud dman, or a stud center in the future!!    That will get our team to your island; not hoping and wishing Cam somehow plays up to his salary (someday)..  

I'm just glad most now see Cam for what he really is!! 

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Well I see Cam as  solid NHL goalkeeper who has been fighting some injury problems. When we extended his contract we were looking for local investors and we were trying to sign our core players. $6 million is a lot of change and probable too much but I think in the next year or two it may be a bargain for a solid goalie.

 

Most likely one of Ward or Khudobin will need to be moved. But if we are a playoff team and if Ward is healthy would you rather have a tandem of Ward and Khudobin or Khudobin and Peters.  I think Ward is the clear choice. We have the cap space and we have other moves to get us the players we need for a playoff run this season.

 

I get it. You don't like Ward and you don't like his salary. IMO if we move Ward it should be in the summer.

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6 mil didn't even get the last stud defensemen who hit free agency.

 

Secondly, if Cam's traded Khudini isn't going to play for free or be a "Greg Value Meal" player. He would easily get 3 mil on the market if he keeps his play up and since we wouldn't even want him to touch free agency I wouldn't be surprised if we offer 3.5-4 mil to avoid risking losing him.

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6 mil didn't even get the last stud defensemen who hit free agency.

 

Secondly, if Cam's traded Khudini isn't going to play for free or be a "Greg Value Meal" player. He would easily get 3 mil on the market if he keeps his play up and since we wouldn't even want him to touch free agency I wouldn't be surprised if we offer 3.5-4 mil to avoid risking losing him.

Fair comments, yep, I agree on the technical points here too.  

That said, in spirit, the concepts still hold -- namely, freeing up 3-ish million would be a heck of a start to land another valuable piece to the puzzle.  

 

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Don't confuse the issue of whether Cam is a solid number 1 NHL goalie with the issue of whether we paid him too much. Before the injuries he had us in playoff position last year with a defense that all agree was terrible in front of him. Is Khudobin an upgrade? Maybe. Do I want Justin Peters as a backup to Ward or Khudobin? No. Would love to get Khudobin signed to about a 2 year extension, with the understanding that he will be given every chance to earn the starting job next year. Should not be a hard sell b/c unless Khudobin really falls off, I think he will finish out this year as th number 1. I don't see us even entertaining a trade of Ward unless and until Khudobin is locked up. That means after the season. Besides, if we remain in the playoff hunt we need 2 goalies the coaching staff has confidence in, and they clearly do not have confidence in Peters. With the Olympics coming up, I think we can squeeze 3 more games out of Khudobin, but we need a viable second option down the stretch, and that has to be Cam.

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One more thing to those ready to throw Cam under the bus at all costs. Khudobin has been awesome when healthy this year. I hope it conyinues and I hope we re-sign him. But look at teams like Philly and Washington who have spent 5 years trying to find the "right" guy. Each of them had one goalie after another play well for a streak of games, only to be shown the door when they cooled off. Of course Philly compounded their mistake by giving up on the one stud in the group. I hope Khudobin keeps playing like the last 15 games and we re-sign him before the end of the year. But do we really want to give him the keys to the franchise based on a 15 game sample? BTW, for all who complain about Cam's injuries of late, didn't Khudobin also miss almost 2 months?

As for Peters, I think we are now backed into a corner. After sitting him since Khudobin got healthy (and his one brief outing being a disaster), it would be miraculous if JR could get anything more than a conditional pick for him now. But if we waive him, someone would probably take him for nothing before he gets to Charlotte. With 2 goalies who have had injuries, I think his greatest value is to just hang onto him through the year in case of another injury.

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We are a little backed into a corner with Peters, aren't we? The thing is if we make the playoffs we have to think it was the Pete-Dawg that saved our season. When Ward and Khudobin went down it was Peters that came in and held us in. It took him time to get going and it took a great effort by the team in front of him but he held us in. I think he has the talent to be a NHL goalie but does he have the mindset. In a tight race you don't have the time to play into form. You have to be ready when called.

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.... In a tight race you don't have the time to play into form. You have to be ready when called.

Well, Ward has been recalled and we'll see if he's ready.

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In my opinion it would be a mistake to trade Cam. Let him back up Doby and if Doby falters give him a chance. Money aside, many teams are going with the 2 goalie tandum. Let them battle for the net. Love the "Value Meal" comment Legend! Almost spewed coffee everywhere! :)

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In my opinion it would be a mistake to trade Cam. Let him back up Doby and if Doby falters give him a chance. Money aside, many teams are going with the 2 goalie tandum. Let them battle for the net. Love the "Value Meal" comment Legend! Almost spewed coffee everywhere! :)

You may get your answer by the trade deadline if JR is to be believed.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/car140130.html

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-3/Jim-Rutherford-with-Daren-Millard,-Nick-Kypreos-and-Doug-MacLean-hc-20140130-Interview.mp3

Edited by Manwolf

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I think that 12-4-0 with a 2.16 GAA and .927 SV% is a very large statement. Confidence in a  goalie is a big factor in team play. Depending on who is available before the trade deadline and in FA in the off season, we may actually lose two goalies.

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One more thing to those ready to throw Cam under the bus at all costs. Khudobin has been awesome when healthy this year. I hope it conyinues and I hope we re-sign him. But look at teams like Philly and Washington who have spent 5 years trying to find the "right" guy. Each of them had one goalie after another play well for a streak of games, only to be shown the door when they cooled off. Of course Philly compounded their mistake by giving up on the one stud in the group. I hope Khudobin keeps playing like the last 15 games and we re-sign him before the end of the year. But do we really want to give him the keys to the franchise based on a 15 game sample? BTW, for all who complain about Cam's injuries of late, didn't Khudobin also miss almost 2 months?

As for Peters, I think we are now backed into a corner. After sitting him since Khudobin got healthy (and his one brief outing being a disaster), it would be miraculous if JR could get anything more than a conditional pick for him now. But if we waive him, someone would probably take him for nothing before he gets to Charlotte. With 2 goalies who have had injuries, I think his greatest value is to just hang onto him through the year in case of another injury.

 

Well in the hangover after the Stanley Cup we gave the keys to the franchise to a goalie who was 14-8-0-2 with a 3.68 GAA and a SV% of .882 in the 2006 season.

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Oh wow!  I've stayed out of this one, unintentionally.  Judging by some of the comments, some of you think Cam's having Peters' season, and Peters is having Cam's season.  I see a lot of spinning, but i'd rather choose to believe my own eyes.  Ignoring the big salary, and ignore the multiple injury stints Cam's faced not just this past season, but the 3 of the last 5 seasons.  His performance this season has been anything but reliable.  And if we're comparing Cam to Peters in the first place about who we should play, that should be pretty indicative of how he's played.  Just look at the numbers people.

 

It's not about bashing on cam, this team has visibly played better in front of two other goalies, and two other goalies have visibly played better than him.  BTW, short term, i'd rather have Cam as the backup despite the numbers, based on experience.  But lets not bash Peters to make a point.

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Well in the hangover after the Stanley Cup we gave the keys to the franchise to a goalie who was 14-8-0-2 with a 3.68 GAA and a SV% of .882 in the 2006 season.

 

Get ready ... Cam's on his way back to Raleigh today !   After letting in 3 goals in his last AHL conditioning game !!

But JR's presser didn't mention that part.

I guess we'll have to watch Cam return vs Mo and the Jets on Tuesday.

Hope the Canes can score at least 5 goals per game going forward, until Cam injures something else.

NO .... I'm not happy about his return.

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