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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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I've been posting here since 1999, and the first heated goalie debate was Irbe/Weekes then Weekes/Every back up he had...then Gerber when he got sick....then Cam versus every back up he's ever had.

 

At some point it's just stupid to argue about it for the sake of arguing about it amongst people who have no control over it.

 

2006 until Gerber got sick was the only time we've ever almost made it a year without trying to whine about goaltending.

 

So I don't know what will consist as the stake in the heart of this debate but even if Cam's dealt if Khudo is anything less then he is this year it will just come up again next year from someone else.

Edited by legend-1

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Legend, I must say it is nice having someone on here with your history and perspective.

 

This is just for anyone:

 

The thing is that a hockey team on the ice is basically divided into 3 groups. Forwards, Defensemen, and Goalie. The goalie is one person, which simultaneously makes them more important and easier to criticize. Then, there is (almost) always one other guy (back up), which makes comparisons seemingly easy. The defense is harder for most fans to watch and there are 6-8 guys to talk about. The forwards and the goalie get the most concentrated attention.

 

To me the problem with the goalie thread is that there are kind of 2 separate categories of posts. The majority are just attempts to rate goalies: against the league, against each other, against their paycheck, etc. At least in more recent history this rating category of posts is driven by a small group of button pushers who like to tweak people to get them to respond, and the people who respond (yours truly very much included). Part of the problem is the button pushing style and part of the problem is that the arguments are always the same.....________is ------- -- ----", combined with the fact that goalie stats are not achieved in a vacuum, but that part is very subjective. 

 

The minority of posts are interesting thoughts and observations about a particular observation. Like Peters is putting out a lot of rebounds. Or Khudini should slow play down more. 

 

It would be nice to have a separate thread for each type of post.

 

Basically add a goalie thread that bans ratings and comparisons (including comparison to salary), and focuses only on specific observations. The problem is that it would likely deteriorate very quickly once ---- -- ------ gets in there, unless the moderators continuously weeded the garden and moved those posts to the other goalie thread. 

 

Might be worth trying.

 

Otherwise, is there a way to pin a thread....to the bottom of the page?

Edited by remkin

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Lake...

 

Well I'm glad we agree that posting SAVE%, GAA and Win% for two goalies on the same team,
in the same season, having played in the same number of games is NOT biased.
 
 
Yep, some will have you believe  Cam was "playing hurt" -- maybe he was, maybe he was not.
If I were trying to sell his skill level  to others, I too might suggest/leak he was "playing hurt" too (think like a GM here).
 
Now, assuming he really was HURTING... Why did Cam go? He could have just said "I'm still not ready!"  The fact he did not, hurt the Canes this year, and so either way, Cam did us no favors.
 
Bottom line?
 
Comparing SAVE%, GAA and Win% for two goalies on the same team,
in the same season, having played in the same number of games is a very unbiased fact-based evaluation.

Lake, if you want to see  BIASED comments, we can go dig some up... things like...    Sorry, "I'm not buying Khodobin as our #1."   "The Canes will have more 50+ point scorers this year than any team in the league." etc etc..   

Greg: you're trying to sell yourself as "unbiased" but I'm not a buyer.  Hag's reference to "spin" hits the nail on the head.  You pick and choose statistics when they support your position and ignore everything that doesn't. Your dislike of Ward is palpable. Opinions are exactly that, opinions, and I respect everyone's right to their own, even if it they don't agree with mine.  But if someone uses flawed or selective views to spin a point, I'm going to call them on it.

 

My prediction is that .927 of all people who read this thread will continue to be annoyed with the opinions of people that use logic better suited for a spin room following a presidential debate than an actual meaningful discussion, the only bright spot being it is about a sports topic and not the future of our nation.

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I just choose to ignore certain posts by certain members. They aren't worth the bandwidth to respond to. I quit trying to reason with these guys a while back. When somebody picks a single stat or two to hang his or her hat on and then poo poos any stat that doesn't support their position, well, I'm through with them. You know "save percentage" is a "real stat" and "shots against" is meaningless. "Goals against" is a "real stat" and "goal support" is not a factor. The fact that " shots against" affects "goals against" is irrelevant because a "world class goalie" should be able to stop that extra shot or five a game.

Money is the elephant in the room with this issue.

Lake, when you decide to call a guy, with this stance, out on flawed logic, you are just giving him the attention he wants.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Some months ago, a suggestion was brought forward to keep most of the goalie discussion here since it was spewing out all over the other live threads.

 

Yes, it was my suggestion, right or wrong.  Seemed to make sense at the time.  To say something positive, at least we have been able to go about our reasonable discussions in most of the other threads without having to revisit this everywhere.

 

As Legend pointed out, it's not going away. 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Greg:... Hag's reference to "spin" hits the nail on the head.  You pick and choose statistics 

 

 

Because....   publishing  SAVE%, GAA and Win% for two goalies on the same teamin the same season (the current season), having played in the same number of games is SUCH A BIASED thing to do!!

 

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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You guys don't realize when somebody is just baiting people to get a response?

 

I gave up on this mess a long time ago, as far as trying to reason with people.  Khudobin has firmly taken the number one spot.  I still don't trust Peters to do any more than spot duty.  Unless JR can do something to lock up Khudobin with an extension, Ward isn't going anywhere, even if he is the highest paid bench door attendant in the league.  You can argue all the save percentages you want, but that is the reality.

 

As for the money on the books, that $10 million owed to Ruutu is much more restraining than the $13.5 million Ward is due in the next two years. 

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Because....   publishing  SAVE%, GAA and Win% for two goalies on the same teamin the same season (the current season), having played in the same number of games is SUCH A BIASED thing to do!!

 

 

Well, since you've used such a large font I stand humbly corrected. 

 

Oh wait, I've changed my mind back again. :rofl:

Edited by LakeLivin

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Well, since you've used such a large font I stand humbly corrected. 

 

Oh wait, I've changed my mind back again. :rofl:

 

Lake, stop feeding him or I swear, I'm getting the rolled up news paper.

 

bad-dog.gif

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We need to change this to "If an image could describe the goalie thread". 

 

Inspired by SD and Lake;

 

Here is my entry. 

 

 

 

roy_vernon.jpg

Edited by remkin

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Here is a stat that I don't think gets enough attention. Unfortunately this also goes against Cam Ward and supports a trade for him.

 

Nickelback Masks

 

Cam Ward 1.00

Anton Khudobin 0.00

Justin Peters 0.00

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This thread has become nothing more than winding a Greg-in-the-Box over and over again only to find out that the funny clown only pops out when he feels like it.  Or just maybe Greg is winding the box and the funny clown pops right out. Hard to say. 

 

The music-in-the-box certainly fits though.

 

:sarcasm:

Edited by coastal_caniac

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We need to change this to "If an image could describe the goalie thread". 

 

Inspired by SD and Lake;

 

Here is my entry. 

This thread has become nothing more than winding a Greg-in-the-Box over and over again only to find out that the funny clown only pops out when he feels like it.  Or just maybe Greg is winding the box and the funny clown pops right out. Hard to say. 

 

The music-in-the-box certainly fits though.

 

:sarcasm:

Coastal: is this what you meant to say?

 

HD20812.jpg

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What I don't understand is how this is an "All Inclusive" goalie discussion and no one as yet has brought up the possibility of bringing in:

 

Konishiki Yasokichi

 

as the next goalie for the Carolina Hurricanes.

 

He is an American, born in Hawaii and nearly became Sumo Grand Champion.  This athletic masterpiece would realize my dream of the Sumo Goalie, and do it well.  He topped the scales at 633 pounds at his peak.

 

I know what you are thinking, "he is average at best", he would make a mockery of the game, but how can we not explore every avenue to success?  Don't let Sports Science ruin the dream of the Sumo Goalie.  They never took a man in his athletic prime when they tested this idea.  Science, schmience.  Only the naysayers can prevent this dream from becoming a reality.

 

A symphony of turnstiles...

Edited by hag65

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. . .

I know what you are thinking, "he is average at best", he would make a mockery of the game, but how can we not explore every avenue to success?  Don't let Sports Science ruin the dream of the Sumo Goalie.  They never took a man in his athletic prime when they tested this idea.  Science, schmience.  Only the naysayers can prevent this dream from becoming a reality.

 

Is this what you mean?

Sumo%20Goalie.png

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