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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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After last nights solid performance is there in question as to who the true #1 goalie is on this team and who our future should be built around?

 

Yes.

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What a pickle we are in. I blame our goalie management as much as some goalie performances. We let Peters grow mold on the bench and we didn't give Ward a start before the break. This is why you don't carry three goalies.

 

Lets face it a couple of the goals against Ward were not entirely his fault but he didn't look that good. I thought his timing and reactions were off. In a game he had to be on top of his game he wasn't. I still think Ward can be a top goalie but maybe not with us. He needs to work and in fact he thrives on work and he won't get it with us.

 

Khudobin is clearly our number one. But he isn't signed so you can't yet say he is our future. Dobby is good but like years of past he needs a reliable backup. He can play the majority of the games but unless you want to ride him into the ground like we have with Ward in the past he needs a reliable backup.

 

And then we have Peters. Conditioning or showcasing in Charlotte. Can he be relied upon as a backup. I don't think anyone knows.

 

I would sign Dobby (if we can) trade Ward (if we can) and use Pete-dawg as a backup for the remainder of the season. The biggest reason to keep Ward at this point is to have a goalie with playoff experience. As playoff hopes dim that advantage is removed. I'm still a believer in Ward but if he is to get game back he needs a change of scenery. I hate that it has come to this but that's how I feel.

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I am not saying that last night's loss to Buffalo (ouch that hurts just to type that) was Cam's fault at all.  BUT, look at the win-loss records of the two goalies over 19 decisions this year.

 

Khodobin = 13 - 6

Ward = 6 - 8 - 5 

 

The team has won 13 of Khodobin's 19 games.  They have won 6 of Ward's 19 games.

 

Not putting a fault on the goalies, the TEAM just seems to play with more confidence obviously with Khodobin in net.  The same cannot be said for Ward.  6 wins in 19 games just doesn't cut it.  With this team being so fragile mentally they have to go with Khodobin.

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A lot of people disagreed with me, but I thought starting Ward last night was a bad call. 

 

Still do. 

 

We needed that game bad and you go with the guy that got you there, and lately that has not been Ward. It was a forced move. Khudini has clearly become the #1. Long break, start your number one. 

 

I just wonder if there is a new psychology. Team just plays better in front of Khudini. Play Khudini until either he falters or Ward shines.

 

That HAS to be the plan.

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I think you had to play Ward last night. it was the smart call. I'm not sure Dobby would have won last night. The team, except for the first line didn't look very good. We had to find out where Ward is in his recovery. We won't be able to make a run with just one goalie.

 

Buffalo was a game we should have won with or without Ward in net.

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I think you had to play Ward last night. it was the smart call. I'm not sure Dobby would have won last night. The team, except for the first line didn't look very good. We had to find out where Ward is in his recovery. We won't be able to make a run with just one goalie.

 

Buffalo was a game we should have won with or without Ward in net.

 

Why was it a smart play that had to be done? Why couldn't we find out where Ward was in his recovery tonight? What's two more days when they didn't play him in the back to back fore of the Olympics?

 

If we are keeping both top goalies, start the proven #1 in the #1 slot. Then come back w/ #2 two days later....

 

Unless...you want it to look like Ward is #1... makes the most sense if JR wants to move Ward before the deadline and needs to show that he is game ready. That's the only way that one makes sense to me.

 

OK, I've managed to put this idea into 3 different threads so I guess it's out there. 

Edited by remkin

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Why was it a smart play that had to be done? Why couldn't we find out where Ward was in his recovery tonight? What's two more days when they didn't play him in the back to back fore of the Olympics?

 

If we are keeping both top goalies, start the proven #1 in the #1 slot. Then come back w/ #2 two days later....

 

Unless...you want it to look like Ward is #1... makes the most sense if JR wants to move Ward before the deadline and needs to show that he is game ready. That's the only way that one makes sense to me.

 

OK, I've managed to put this idea into 3 different threads so I guess it's out there. 

 

This is only my opinion. In light of the loss the case can be made that Dobby should of started and really that would be an easy opinion to defend.

 

Yet going into the game you needed to start a backup. You hadn't played a backup in a long time. You really did need to find out how Ward was in his recovery. Going into the game the chances were far better you could beat Buffalo with Ward in net than the surging Stars.

 

There is of course the trade possibility. If Ward is on the block he had to play so teams could evaluate him. We had to evaluate him before deciding if you keep Peters. JR said again he isn't going to waive Peters. Pete-dawg earned a right not to be waived when he bailed us out early in the season. So do you trade Ward, do you trade Peters or do you keep 3 goalies. We are evaluating/showcasing Peters in the AHL and we are evaluating/showcasing Ward with a start. We also needed to find out if we can't sign Dobby what our backup plans are.

 

That's  why I say it was the smart move. Unfortunately the Canes didn't win making it a questionable move.

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This is only my opinion. In light of the loss the case can be made that Dobby should of started and really that would be an easy opinion to defend.

 

Yet going into the game you needed to start a backup. You hadn't played a backup in a long time. You really did need to find out how Ward was in his recovery. Going into the game the chances were far better you could beat Buffalo with Ward in net than the surging Stars.

 

There is of course the trade possibility. If Ward is on the block he had to play so teams could evaluate him. We had to evaluate him before deciding if you keep Peters. JR said again he isn't going to waive Peters. Pete-dawg earned a right not to be waived when he bailed us out early in the season. So do you trade Ward, do you trade Peters or do you keep 3 goalies. We are evaluating/showcasing Peters in the AHL and we are evaluating/showcasing Ward with a start. We also needed to find out if we can't sign Dobby what our backup plans are.

 

That's  why I say it was the smart move. Unfortunately the Canes didn't win making it a questionable move.

 

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I think that the game in Buffalo was far more important than Dallas psychologically. Win in Buffalo and lose in Dallas and we aren't all firing JR. Plus the natural game to start your number one is the first game back from a long break. 

 

For what it's worth I posted that the team should start Khudini and why in the pre game thread.

 

The trade thing is just wild speculation on my part.

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Why was it a smart play that had to be done? Why couldn't we find out where Ward was in his recovery tonight? What's two more days when they didn't play him in the back to back fore of the Olympics?

 

If we are keeping both top goalies, start the proven #1 in the #1 slot. Then come back w/ #2 two days later....

 

Unless...you want it to look like Ward is #1... makes the most sense if JR wants to move Ward before the deadline and needs to show that he is game ready. That's the only way that one makes sense to me.

 

OK, I've managed to put this idea into 3 different threads so I guess it's out there. 

I agree with you Remkin, as I stated in the GDT. Of course, like OBXer said, hindsight is 20/20.

I just think Khudobin is our #1, he was rested, and I thought psychologically we needed to get off to a good start. We are not in a position to showcase players, but we might soon be.

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I didn't disagree at the time, with the idea of putting Ward in goal against Buffalo.  I'm sure they thought the team could beat a struggling Buffalo team and they had to throw Ward out there some time.  They probably thought it would be a good way to get him rolling.  I don't think the outcome either way would have effected Kudo's status as the #1 though.  Maybe waiting for the back to back to throw Ward out there would have been best, but I now have the luxury of hindsight.

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rem,OBxer and Kyrule, I see validity in each of your 3 views, but I'd like to postulate perhaps a caveat to your positions. The 20/20 hindsight rule not withstanding, I think the move to start Wardo was a bold, DESPERATION move because of the precarious position in which we, as well as JR sit. The present goalie conundrum is about as unsolvable as one can find, all elements of it having been discussed ad infinitum.  

 

This team, and it's very undesirable positioning in the playoff scheme, to me, is inescapably linked to the goalie fiasco, such that if JR can solve the one, and only if he can solve it prior to the trade deadline in just one short week, will decide what these players will be doing on Apr 14th. Even then, I'm very skeptical of a post season appearence.

 

Having said that, and harkening back to JR's truly morose statements following last years bust, I think the present course of choice in goalie has to reflect a "last ditch effort" that JR has embarked upon to attempt a solution regarding Cam vs Khudobin.

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I forgot to mention that even though I thought we should have started Khudobin, I'm not pinning our problems on Ward.

I agree with everyone who is saying that what ails this team is a collective issue that runs deep.

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I myself think the team/players have absolutely no confidence in Cam. They seem to play better/harder in front of Anton. IMO there seems to be more energy on the ice when Anton is in net from one end of the ice to the other!!

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The way this season has unfolded, Khudobin is #1. Cam is #2. Peters is insurance or trade bait if anyone will take him. I disagree totally with not starting the #1 goalie after a long break. In fact, he should have had no trouble playing Buffalo AND Dallas unless he got shelled in Buffalo. Only one of these three is likely to be here next year, unless Peters hangs around to be somebody's backup. I'm fine with Peters as our #3 AHL insurance goalie, but one handful of games has not sold me on his long-term potential as an NHL caliber goalie.

 

Like some others, I still think Cam can return to form as a very good NHL goalie, but if I was betting right now, I'd say Khudobin will be signed in the off-season and Cam will be traded. As many have noted, Khudobin did not come here to be a career backup. Can't see him re-signing here if Cam is not traded.

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Hello I am a Jets fan from Winnipeg.

 

What would Canes fans think of this trade proposal:

 

To Carolina:

 

PAVELEC (G)

BYFUGELIEN (D)

 

To Winnipeg:

 

KHUDOBIN

3rd Round Draft pick (2014-15)

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Hello I am a Jets fan from Winnipeg.

 

What would Canes fans think of this trade proposal:

 

To Carolina:

 

PAVELEC (G)

BYFUGELIEN (D)

 

To Winnipeg:

 

KHUDOBIN

3rd Round Draft pick (2014-15)

I'd personally find that intriguing from a perspective of the players involved, but I don't see it as being realistic in season because of the salary cap implications. You're talking about a $8.3M cap hit we'd have to finagle. 

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Hello I am a Jets fan from Winnipeg.

 

What would Canes fans think of this trade proposal:

 

To Carolina:

 

PAVELEC (G)

BYFUGELIEN (D)

 

To Winnipeg:

 

KHUDOBIN

3rd Round Draft pick (2014-15)

Hey Jets fan.. thanks for posting here.

We need some new blood on this board.

Let me ask you this... 

How would you feel about 

CAM WARD + the 3rd Rounder

for 

PAVELEC (G)

BYFUGELIEN (D).

 

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Hey Jets fan.. thanks for posting here.

We need some new blood on this board.

Let me ask you this... 

How would you feel about 

CAM WARD + the 3rd Rounder

for 

PAVELEC (G)

BYFUGELIEN (D).

 

 

 

Pavelec and Byfugelien to Carolina

 

Cam Ward + 1st round pick (2014 NHL draft) to Winnipeg

 

=

 

DEAL!  

Edited by Ducky10Jets

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Pavelec and Byfugelien to Carolina

 

Cam Ward + 1st round pick (2014 NHL draft) to Winnipeg

 

=

 

DEAL!  

 

 

So you clearly value KHUDOBIN more than Cam Ward.

 

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Jets fan, if you want Khudobin that bad, don't pull a JR and trade a bunch of assets for him 23 games before he becomes a UFA. He's from Russia, so the sub-zero temperature probably doesn't bother him. Just put enough zeroes on the offer with the right number in front of it and get: Khudobin plus keep Byfugelien and your 3rd pick. Of course you don't get to unload a lot of salary this way. And forget about our #1 pick. It's starting to look like we may be picking 5th again.

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Seems like Greg is talking to himself!  

 

Mods should check the IP addresses out and see if good ole Ducky is from the Peg!

 

Do you throw out bizarre accusations as a habit?  No, I am not in Winnipeg.  I am 100km northeast of Fort McMurray, AB, if you must know.  I was born and raised in Winnipeg.  

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Do you throw out bizarre accusations as a habit?  No, I am not in Winnipeg.  I am 100km northeast of Fort McMurray, AB, if you must know.  I was born and raised in Winnipeg.  

 

Not as a habit, no.  Your post just seems very ironic, tis all.  Welcome to our new friend from Fort McMurray!

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