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Greg-N-Ral

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GM needs to step in and demand we give Ward every chance to show he can bring something in trade. No longer a coaching decision.

 

This bunch is standing on the train track, they see the light, they hear the train whistle, and the don't believe that the train is going to run them over.  They don't understand that the team is no longer in playoff contention.  They believe that as long as they aren't "mathematically" eliminated, they have a shot. In one respect, the never say die attitude is good, but reality is better. They also believe in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, the Great Pumpkin, and Fairy Godmothers.

 

Ward has no trade value now.  Give him a steady dose of play.  If he regains form, then JR has a chance to move him.  If he continues to crap the bed, his value isn't going to go any lower.

Edited by super_dave_1

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The risk reward ratio is entirely in favor of playing Ward. There is no chance of playoffs this year. Khudini is locked down, so this is not an issue.

 

If Ward returns to form he will have a LOT of value: read get a key piece back: top 6 forward, top pair defense.

 

If Ward continues to struggle, well we get less, but at least we get a better draft pick as we fall down the board.

 

There is a good chance that he might put toghether a nice run though.

 

Right now the value of Ward in a trade could be a key piece in a quick turnaround. Get a really nice piece for him, and a high draft pick...plus whatever other changes come...could be a quick turnaround.

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I think this bunch will get run over but hung up in the axles and dragged down the tracks for another 18 games unless PK steps in and says enough of this horse malarkey.

 

Every day Muller has his job is a good day because that means chances are greater the next person in charge will do that dirty work and all the other things that need to be scrutinized after JR steps aside following the end of the season.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Agree we should play Ward. Nothing to lose, really. Unless the universe stands on it's head, it does not matter who we play in goal. We will struggle to score 1 or 2 goals for 18 more games, and should have at worst a top 7 pick. If Ward could make a showing that he has regained his form, maybe we do get something decent for him instead of a buyout or a $6 million plus backup.

Great to be planning for the draft and thinking of next year w/18 games left. Is it Groundhog Day?

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Defense tomorrow is shaping up to be Hainsey, Bellemore, Harrison, Murphy, Komi, and Jordan, collectively.

 

It's not off topic.

 

Individually, Jordan couldn't be any worse than Harrison or Komi, or even 3.8-mil going forward for 2 more years Liles for that matter, if he was playing.

 

Jordan, nothing against the guy, but it just seem like pulling a name out of a hat and saying come on down.

 

More of the same.

 

For Ward or Dobby that is.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Jordan, nothing against the guy, but it just seem like pulling a name out of a hat and saying come on down.

If only there was a way to obtain young players and develop them to be ready for the NHL.

This could get ugly for whoever they throw in goal. Is Peters still in game shape? They could "reward" him for being a team player by throwing him to the wolves...er...I mean, giving him the start.

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Defense tomorrow is shaping up to be Hainsey, Bellemore, Harrison, Murphy, Komi, and Jordan, collectively.

 

What's the "over" on the Rangers?

Edited by remkin

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Hey guys,

 

I'm a writer for The Hockey Writers, and I actually covered this topic earlier today. Check it out and see what you think. 

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/goaltender-controversy-in-carolina-crease/

 

I personally am in favor of dealing Ward at the draft. The return is not going to be that great for him. I believe I saw the original poster throwing out names like Rick Nash, Ovechkin, etc. That'll never happen. At best, I think the Canes should look to get a prospect (defenseman or goaltender) and 1-2 draft picks (3rd round, maybe 2nd round). 

 

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Hey guys,

 

I'm a writer for The Hockey Writers, and I actually covered this topic earlier today. Check it out and see what you think. 

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/goaltender-controversy-in-carolina-crease/

 

I personally am in favor of dealing Ward at the draft. The return is not going to be that great for him. I believe I saw the original poster throwing out names like Rick Nash, Ovechkin, etc. That'll never happen. At best, I think the Canes should look to get a prospect (defenseman or goaltender) and 1-2 draft picks (3rd round, maybe 2nd round). 

 

From your article:

"Peters especially has been hung out to dry as he faces the most shots, the closest shots, and he's getting beat on average from inside 20 feet which indicates the defense is not doing a good job in front of him."

 

If Peters gave up more rebounds than Khudini and Ward, wouldn't that also lead to him giving up more shots, closer shots, and closer goals?  I haven't looked at the numbers lately, but at one point the team was scoring noticeably less behind Peters than either of the other two goalies, which could indicate that they were actually protecting him more than Khudini and Ward. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Hey guys,

 

I'm a writer for The Hockey Writers, and I actually covered this topic earlier today. Check it out and see what you think. 

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/goaltender-controversy-in-carolina-crease/

 

I personally am in favor of dealing Ward at the draft. The return is not going to be that great for him. I believe I saw the original poster throwing out names like Rick Nash, Ovechkin, etc. That'll never happen. At best, I think the Canes should look to get a prospect (defenseman or goaltender) and 1-2 draft picks (3rd round, maybe 2nd round). 

Nice article Greg, I mean Prashanth. ;)

 

Appreciate that you looked at every shot (that couldn't have been pretty at times).  Hopefully Ward proves you wrong and has a strong, healthy, finish.  Then we can deal him and as true Caniacs stress about whether he's really back to form.  We'll see....

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It would be better than discussing a Khudobin versus Peters battle.  I'd much rather have two NHL goalies than one and a half.  Is that worth $6 or 7 million?  That's a question worth discussion.

 

Only if the offense can begin to score goals on a consistent basis.

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Statistics don't lie, except usually. 

 

The shot distance is an interesting analysis, but like plus/minus, my guess is that it is a vague stat. As Lake pointed out Peters rebound control leads to a lot of 4 foot follow up shots, that really bends the average.

 

But there is no debating that Cam has struggled the last two years. Still, the question is not the Cam of the past. The question is the Cam of the future. What can Cam bring to a team moving forward? 

 

This is why JR needs to get Cam a lot of starts from here out. Show his game is back.

 

The last 2 starts: .937 sv %, if he kept that over the season he'd be #1 in the league. Sure, fun with statistics, but the point is there.

 

If Cam can put together 12 starts with good stats, he might be much more valuable because there is a reference point in the past to suggest that he is finding his game rather than just a flash in the pan. Further, Cam has a cup and a deep playoff run under the belt.

 

If the Canes eat some of the salary, maybe they get something. 

 

If Cam fights it more in those starts, then we have a problem. Now he is a salary dump and Prashanth is right we should take whatever we can get to dump the salary. 

 

If Cam puts up nice numbers, but does not bring value it is a smaller problem. But the initial answer: move Peters or just let him go and go with Cam and Khudini to start the season with a plan to move one out at some point, or not.

 

Either way, it is not really a goalie triad so long as Cam declares himself: back to form, or not.

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On another goalie note. I predict that Cam Ward goes nowhere during the off season. Here's why. If JR stays for another season, he will keep Ward. Coming into this season we obtained Khudini who many of us thought would push Ward and also have a chance of becoming the number 1. Canes fans thought this would be a great year for us with two good goalies. Injuries to both goalies never gave us the opportunity to have the a solid rotation. Khudini signs for 2mil for the first year and 2.5 for the second. The first year is only a 1.2 mil increase for JR. Due to Cam's low value at this point,JR will give the tandem another shot in 2014/2015.Jr states that Cam looks good technically and that now the issue is between his ears. Jr will give him another year to try and get back to form. I know this isn't a popular post, but JR has become predictable. He will justify his action by saying it only cost him 1.2 mil additionally to keep both goalies.

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I think that if Ward continues to play well and if JR gets a decent trade offer over the summer, he would have to try to get a deal done.  Peters has entered the witness protection program and may never be seen again, but starting the season with a goalie controversy isn't the way to go.  Khudobin has proven (at least to me) that he can carry the load.  I can't see the team carrying that much money in goalies if there was an option.  Ward is not going to be happy as a backup, even a highly paid backup.

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If they can't trade him then Ward needs to be bought out ... After 13 years as a full STH, I'm not going to another game while he's still on the roster. 

Edited by ynotagain

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If Ward will bring a decent return, I'm sure he will be traded. On the other hand, if he does not get much interest from other teams, I think witk the cap going up, we can carry he and Khudobin. Everyone says he was lousy last year. We were in the playoffs when he got hurt. What did I miss. Ellis played about 2 games before getting hurt, and Peters drove us into the ditch. That's what I remember anyway. Really, salary considerations aside, does anyone REALLY want Peters as a 2nd goalie over Ward? Peters has no rebound control whatsoever (khudobin's is only average, but he somehow still gets the job done). Ward stil has shown he can make the great save, and has good rebound control. He just has had a tendency to miss some shots that should be routine saves this year. It's not like everyone around him is having a career year. Practically everyone has underperformed mightily. Nearly everyone on this board has wanted Ward to be the scapegoat for the team. Remember what you wished for next year when Khudobin goes down for 20 games and you get a steady dose of Justin Peters. Yes he was good for a dozen games in November/December. What about 2013 and the rest of his career?

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If he is traded or bought out we have 6+ million to get another goalie through free agency plus money to address other needs. A trade may also bring another goalie in. Still, no I don't want Peters as a #2.

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Maybe $4 million, because we will have to Eat probably 1/3 of his salary for 2 years, but I get your point. Just hope part of that money gets us another Khudobin, not a Leighton's or Graham.

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If Ward will bring a decent return, I'm sure he will be traded. On the other hand, if he does not get much interest from other teams, I think witk the cap going up, we can carry he and Khudobin. Everyone says he was lousy last year. We were in the playoffs when he got hurt. What did I miss. Ellis played about 2 games before getting hurt, and Peters drove us into the ditch. That's what I remember anyway. Really, salary considerations aside, does anyone REALLY want Peters as a 2nd goalie over Ward? Peters has no rebound control whatsoever (khudobin's is only average, but he somehow still gets the job done). Ward stil has shown he can make the great save, and has good rebound control. He just has had a tendency to miss some shots that should be routine saves this year. It's not like everyone around him is having a career year. Practically everyone has underperformed mightily. Nearly everyone on this board has wanted Ward to be the scapegoat for the team. Remember what you wished for next year when Khudobin goes down for 20 games and you get a steady dose of Justin Peters. Yes he was good for a dozen games in November/December. What about 2013 and the rest of his career?

 

I'm still on the fence about the future of our goaltending situation. Goalies often look bad or good based on how the team as a whole plays. Khudobin looked great in Jan, and he was, but so was the entire team. It's not really a coincidence that he's at almost back to .500 in wins and losses if you look at how to the team as a whole has played (the game he got pulled counts as a loss to Wardo).

 

So Khudobin is really 14-11 and Ward is 8-10 on the season. So we either have 2 really mediocre/bad goalies OR a mediocre/bad team. Our defense has hung both of them out to dry. And even when both goalies have given us a chance to win, the team has not found a way to score more than a goal and we still lose. You can throw stats around all you want in this thread, but no goalie is going to thrive here. The goalies go as the team goes and it will be that way if Khudobin is our number 1 or if Ward is our number 1 until something dramatic happens to this team. This team hasn't been good enough in a long time, it's not really a surprise that our goalies never look that impressive. Khudobin will suffer the same fate unless we pull off a miracle in the offseason and somehow make the team work. If Ward gets traded to a good team, I bet he thrives. If Carolina becomes a good team, either goalie can thrive and Peters would probably look like a respectable backup.

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Hey guys,

 

I'm a writer for The Hockey Writers, and I actually covered this topic earlier today. Check it out and see what you think. 

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/goaltender-controversy-in-carolina-crease/

 

I personally am in favor of dealing Ward at the draft. The return is not going to be that great for him. I believe I saw the original poster throwing out names like Rick Nash, Ovechkin, etc. That'll never happen. At best, I think the Canes should look to get a prospect (defenseman or goaltender) and 1-2 draft picks (3rd round, maybe 2nd round). 

NICE fact based article Prashanth!  

Thanks for sharing here!  

While some are still in denial, it appears most finally do understand.

 

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If they can't trade him then Ward needs to be bought out ... After 13 years as a full STH, I'm not going to another game while he's still on the roster. 

Well said!! 

I've distilled it down to a minimum of one of these five:

1) JR goes

2) Coach Kirk goes

3) Eric is traded (simply no where near 4th best salary in league)

4) Cam is gone, (for anything just dump salary)

5) Canes obtain a true superstar (like an Ovi, Sid, etc.).

I doubt #5 is going to happen, so for me, it comes down to at least one of the above before I can remotely believe in this team again.

 

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With Khudobin's contract, there is little risk but high reward depending upon what he does next season.

Between Ward's and Dobby's contract, it is an average of 4.275 mil. which isn't bad.

I know I am in the minority about keeping both for next season.

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With Khudobin's contract, there is little risk but high reward depending upon what he does next season.

Between Ward's and Dobby's contract, it is an average of 4.275 mil. which isn't bad.

I know I am in the minority about keeping both for next season.

 

I'm with you Hopper, goaltending is NOT the problem with this team... hasn't been for a long time.  Defense, consistency, leadership in that order.

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I would also be good with keeping Ward and Khudobin. Also agree w/JB, except I'd put leadership 1st on our list of deficiencies. And I mean that from management, to coaches, to players.

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Sorry, but eating up $6.5-million in CAP SPACE for a goalie that has the 42nd best save % (among 44 in the league) IS a problem.  A huge problem!


The argument its "the defense" not Cam is lame, as K-man, with the same "defense" in front of him has the 4th best save % in the entire NHL.

This isn't that hard to see actually (but it may be hard for some to except, I get that part).



 

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