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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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Peters as 1/2 of any goalie tandem is suicide. I believe we were 15-9-1 last year when Ward, then Ellis went down. We ended up with the 5th overall draft pick. If we need to trade Ward because he costs too much to be a number 2, or to just share the job, so be it, but we are still going to need to invest more than the NHL minimum in someone other than Peters to play with Khudobin. Peters played well for 10 games or so in November, but aside from that, he has had many chances in Raleigh with little to show for it.

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I agree that having Peters as a #2 is a bad idea, but hopefully management isn't that bad that they don't see this, but you never know. As I already pointed out, moving Ward's salary would give us more than the league minimum to spend on another goalie, with a lot left over.

UNCcaniac8, you say that Cup teams have goalies that are reliable and time-tested. Has Ward been reliable over the past few seasons? How many injuries has he had? Has his play been consistent? How long does time-tested go back, because he has not withstood the test of time over recent years.

I would argue that Cup teams don't spend 9 million on goaltending, or 6.5 million on goalies that have been injury-prone and inconsistent even when healthy to play the role of backup or in a timeshare.

The only way keeping Ward makes sense is if you think he will take the starting job from Khudobin and earn his contract as a top goalie in the league next season. Right now things point to the exact opposite.

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Yes--I think Cam will return to form. I think Doby could actually learn some things

from Cam because of his greater experience in goal. I hope he is not traded.

 

But I also think there will be a lot of organizational soul-searching in the off season

as they decide how to go forward, and everything will be discussed --coaching,

goaltending, players etc. So we will all just have to wait and see.

 

I also know that whatever they decide--------this board will light up with comment !   

 

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Yes--I think Cam will return to form. I think Doby could actually learn some things

from Cam because of his greater experience in goal. I hope he is not traded.

 

But I also think there will be a lot of organizational soul-searching in the off season

as they decide how to go forward, and everything will be discussed --coaching,

goaltending, players etc. So we will all just have to wait and see.

 

I also know that whatever they decide--------this board will light up with comment !   

I respect your feelings/dedication to Ward, and I agree about waiting and seeing. I hope it is an exciting offseason, we need to shake things up and have something to look forward to/give us hope.

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Khudobin's contract, as I've said before, is a low risk / high reward if he performs next season as he has this season.

With goalies, you never really know from one season to the next what you'll get.

 

I know there is a lot of discussion about trading Cam and while I'd prefer both to be back next season as a 1-2 punch, Iam not against it as long as it gets this team what it needs. What if JR gets a better offer for Khudobin that reaps us similar rewards at the trade deadline. Is he protected?

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I don't think there is any way we tie up almost 9-mil in goaltending.

 

IMO, not a smart business model for a small-market franchise.

 

 

 

totally agree.   but who says the Canes have used a smart business model strategy for a small-market?

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Its possible even with an improving Ward-0 we may not be able to move him over the summer. With 2 years left on his contract it might be necessary to carry Ward into next season. If his play continues to improve it wouldn't be the worse case scenario with two reliable goalies to start next season. The goal would have to be to move one by trade deadline or earlier.

 

The one definite is you can't go into next season carrying 3 goalies. 

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I'm going to let whatever happens happen. I will say this though, if Ward gets traded, we'd better send him out West. It's almost a guarantee that if he stays in the East that he will return to form and make the Canes pay. 

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The one definite is you can't go into next season carrying 3 goalies. 

 

Peters will be an UFA in the off season, I believe,

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Just noticed something. Saturday the players will be wearing green jerseys for warm ups.

The club will then auction these jerseys off. I noticed a name that is not there for Saturday.

 

Jersey Auction Schedule

  • April 14 – April 23: Elias Lindholm #16, Jordan Staal #11, Brett Bellemore #73, Andrej Sekera #4
  • April 28 – May 7: Radek Dvorak #18, Nathan Gerbe #14, Alexander Semin #28, Ryan Murphy #7, Justin Peters #35
  • May 12 – May 21: Andrei Loktionov #8,  Jeff Skinner #53, Jiri Tlusty #19, Ron Hainsey #65
  • May 26 – June 4: Drayson Bowman #21, Patrick Dwyer #39, Mike Komisarek #5, Anton Khudobin #31
  • June 9 – June 18: Manny Malhotra #22, Riley Nash #20, Eric Staal #12, Jay Harrison #44


So I guess Cam isn't participating in warmups/game Saturday, but Peters is?

Edited by hopper915

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Just noticed something. Saturday the players will be wearing green jerseys for warm ups.

The club will then auction these jerseys off. I noticed a name that is not there for Saturday.

 

Jersey Auction Schedule

  • April 14 – April 23: Elias Lindholm #16, Jordan Staal #11, Brett Bellemore #73, Andrej Sekera #4
  • April 28 – May 7: Radek Dvorak #18, Nathan Gerbe #14, Alexander Semin #28, Ryan Murphy #7, Justin Peters #35
  • May 12 – May 21: Andrei Loktionov #8,  Jeff Skinner #53, Jiri Tlusty #19, Ron Hainsey #65
  • May 26 – June 4: Drayson Bowman #21, Patrick Dwyer #39, Mike Komisarek #5, Anton Khudobin #31
  • June 9 – June 18: Manny Malhotra #22, Riley Nash #20, Eric Staal #12, Jay Harrison #44

So I guess Cam isn't participating in warmups/game Saturday, but Peters is?

Nice/interesting detective work!  Thanks for sharing.  

Lets see what happens....

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Nice/interesting detective work!  Thanks for sharing.  

Lets see what happens....

Also just noticed Murphy is on the list of jerseys to be auctioned, but he's in Charlotte, so I guess his will be a "game issued" auction jersey.

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I've held out long enough, so here goes my .02...

 

I think I've been deluding myself into thinking that if and when we trade Ward, we are going to get this HUGE return for a premier player/prospect/draft pick. Despite the recent struggles, I always viewed Cam as virtually "untouchable" and if he ever were to become a piece that could be moved, we would get something gigantic in return.  

 

I can fool myself no longer.

 

The game against the Isles was ugly (albeit not ALL Cam's fault, but still). With his recent play, his cap hit, and his NTC, I dont see a team out there who'd be willing to give up the farm for him. I'm in favor of giving Dobby the keys, he's earned them until he proves otherwise.

 

I've been in the "Let's trade Cam" camp for about half a season now with lofty expectations. I guess my point to all this is this: we aren't going to get squat for him (relatively speaking) and I fear it's going to be more of a salary dump/2nd or 3rd round pick at most.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong.

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Canesfan, I think you are on the money.  Who in their right mind would throw anyone out there that we would possibly want for the opportunity to see if Ward is going to come around or play a full season without injury.  Regardless of what he has done, it is more of "what have you done lately" that people with the checkbooks are asking themselves.  That is an awfully large salary for the odds IMO.  At best, we will eat a large portion if we move him out of here whether it be trade or buy out.  I think this is a no-win situation for the organization at this point.  Who has a backup goalie making that much money?  Canes, that's who

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Cam had a simply amazing game two games ago. Last game was a team melt down.

 

This is why we must start Cam how ever much it takes to try to establish some value.

 

I do wonder if there are conditional trades.  We take X amount of salary if cam plays X number of games. I mean there are conditional draft picks in trades. 

 

 I do agree that it is very unlikely that we get a huge return.  I would hope to get at least a higher first round pick. Less than that, we're better of keeping him at least initially.

Edited by remkin

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Isles game not on Cam---Doby promptly let the 4th goal in when he came in. Why? Faulk and Sekera

and high forward Staal were in a funk and the net minders were left out to dry--with no help to

clear after first save was made!  No excuse for the fact that players were not ready to play .None of

them. Not on the goalies !!  Sekera finally woke up in time to prevent the fifth goal from going in in

the first period, Why do you think Muller had to burn his time out 10 minutes in?  To try to get their attention!

 

But I will go back to my question earlier----if Cam is traded----who backs up Doby? Please don't tell

me we re-sign Peters to do that!   Ponder that !  Perhaps we can run him into the ground and threaten

his career early------by riding him, like we did Cam!

Edited by UNCCaniac8

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Reportedly there are going to be quite a few goalies on the free agent market and available through trade.  Of course this makes getting value for Ward harder. The ideal situation in my opinion would be to get at least a mid first round pick maybe plus a third line center, and use the salary differential to sign a backup from the market.

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But I will go back to my question earlier----if Cam is traded----who backs up Doby? Please don't tell

me we re-sign Peters to do that! Ponder that ! Perhaps we can run him into the ground and threaten

his career early------by riding him, like we did Cam!

Not much to ponder really. We sign a goalie as an UFA, or we get a goalie in a trade. It's not rocket science. I don't know why you are so certain Peters will be re-signed. He is a free-agent at the end of the year and I'm sure there are better options available.

Btw, it is Sekera, not Sekora.

Edited by Kyrule

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Reportedly there are going to be quite a few goalies on the free agent market and available through trade.  Of course this makes getting value for Ward harder. The ideal situation in my opinion would be to get at least a mid first round pick maybe plus a third line center, and use the salary differential to sign a backup from the market.

 

You seem to be seriously saying ... Cam Ward (and his 6-mil salary) could be worth a 1st round pick and a 3rd line center?

Come on man!!   :>   Totally unrealistic homer take!

What did Remkin say while falling off a 40-story build?

"So far, so good."

All in fun Rem, but come on, PLEASE be realistic!

 

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Yes--I corrected Sekera's name.

 

What makes me think we will try to sign Peters?  Just seems like the Canes style.

 

Maybe new GM will see it differently.  I know it's not rocket science.  But I have watched "how we roll"  for many years----and if Karmanos has alluded to "belt tightening" next year (which I read on this board somewhere) it seems counter-intuitive,  if you are trying to appeal a disgusted fan base. And "go for cheap" is how things always went in providing a decent backup for Cam all those years. That is why we overplayed him.

 

Salary stats from NHL show that over 1/2 of the NHL teams have in the 6-8+ mil. per year on the books for their pair of goalies. If Doby is #1 next year at 2+ mil--------you know they will not bring in a backup making more than he is. That is not rocket science either !

 

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Well I said best case scenario.

 

If Cam gets on a roll built off that second to last game, and start looking like a #1 goalie, a first rounder and a third liner is not crazy.

 

As it stands now, probably not.

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Well I said best case scenario.

 

If Cam gets on a roll built off that second to last game, and start looking like a #1 goalie, a first rounder and a third liner is not crazy.

 

As it stands now, probably not.

 

 

 

Cam for a 1st round pick and a 3rd line NHL center would never happen.

No NHL GM would give up that much for Ward, regardless what he does in his last 1-3 starts this year!

One need only look at Luongo (who is better than Cam)...

 

 
Luongo + left winger Steven Anthony 
FOR
Goalie prospect Jacob Markstrom + center Shawn Matthias
 
 
Another example....  

NJ got Goalie Cory Schneider (also better than Cam) 

and they only needed to move a 1st round (9th overall) pick.
Cory has a lifetime 92.4% save% BTW!

The most the Canes will get for Ward is perhaps an early 2nd round pick (best case) and only they eat $1.0 mill of his salary (best case).

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Well both of those trades were by one GM who many think got taken and botched that situation.

 

Before last year Forslund insisted that GM's and coaches around the league thought Cam was an above average #1 goalie. True there have been issues since then, but Cam put on a clinic his second to last start. If he could have a few more like that and another couple of solid starts....

 

I get that his salary is a problem. I also get that one great start isn't going to move the dial, but even a mid to late round 1st round pick has about a 50% chance of every having a semi decent career at all. A second rounder is a pure salary dump. 

 

Reportedly there will be quite a few goalies on the market and that won't help things.

 

As it stands right now, your probably right. If Cam put up 5 good starts, never know.

 

JR may have been more justified than we think giving some of these deals, but giving a huge, long term contract w/ a NTC to any young goalie is a very risky move. I will agree with that.

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I'd like to see more of Khodo's shootout acumen.  Unfortunately he tends to suck one in before we make it that far in OT.

Edited by hag65

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