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Greg-N-Ral

All inclusive goalie discussion

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Ellis got lit up in one game and this thread has died. Still think it's all goalie and not defensive?

We won't know until the next game :) Opinions on this subject are game time decisions.

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Ellis got lit up in one game and this thread has died. Still think it's all goalie and not defensive?

Think Ellis was getting over-hyped before the Philly game. Not sure why Muller decided to play him in a back-to-back. The coaches had to realize it was the great defensive play in the Ottawa game, along with some good goaltending. Defense always seems to lead the way, as they did against Philly, ... down the drain! Consistency, consistency...

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Ellis got lit up in one game and this thread has died. Still think it's all goalie and not defensive?

How many threads have you pronounced dead that are still active? 1 bad game but still has better numbers. Still say he gets more starts.

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I was recently accused of flip flopping, becuase I have been a strong Ellis supporter,but I was agreeing that he should have been pulled on the 4th goal,he just didnt have it against Philly,and Cam only let in 1 the rest of the game,it was a reversal of the Florida game

We do have a goalie situation, and alot of questions, do we have 2 great goalies,or 2 mediocre goalies ?,and wich one gives us the best chance to win. All of these speculations dont matter,becuase we are not at the practices,we are not in the meetings,so I am just going to support wich ever goalie is in net,and leave it up to Muller and Co to decide wich one that should be to give us the best chance to win!!!

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I was recently accused of flip flopping, becuase I have been a strong Ellis supporter,but I was agreeing that he should have been pulled on the 4th goal,he just didnt have it against Philly,and Cam only let in 1 the rest of the game,it was a reversal of the Florida game

We do have a goalie situation, and alot of questions, do we have 2 great goalies,or 2 mediocre goalies ?,and wich one gives us the best chance to win. All of these speculations dont matter,becuase we are not at the practices,we are not in the meetings,so I am just going to support wich ever goalie is in net,and leave it up to Muller and Co to decide wich one that should be to give us the best chance to win!!!

LOL, based upon your previous comments, sound just like flip-flopping your opinion to me. :applaud:

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Going into tonight's contest against the Leafs the data tells us:

Dane Ellis ranks #3 in the NHL with a .939 Save Pct.

Cam Ward, with .867 ranks #37 of 39 (third worst in the NHL).

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Going into tonight's contest against the Leafs the data tells us:

Dane Ellis ranks #3 in the NHL with a .939 Save Pct.

Cam Ward, with .867 ranks #37 of 39 (third worst in the NHL).

But Ellis is no longer the "hot hand"

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Going into tonight's contest against the Leafs the data tells us:

Dane Ellis ranks #3 in the NHL with a .939 Save Pct.

Cam Ward, with .867 ranks #37 of 39 (third worst in the NHL).

If Ward had gotten the start against Ottawa or had the defense that the Canes gave Ellis in the Ottawa game in other starts, these numbers would be drastically different.

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If Ward had gotten the start against Ottawa or had the defense that the Canes gave Ellis in the Ottawa game in other starts, these numbers would be drastically different.

Maybe, maybe not.

In this case, I prefer to look at objective data and not make assumptions.

The data shows Ellis is still doing well.

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Maybe, maybe not.

In this case, I prefer to look at objective data and not make assumptions.

The data shows Ellis is still doing well.

The data doesn't lie but to make the data fair, shouldn't the comparison be for the same amount of games played?

Thanks to everyone for bringing some civility back into this thread, its a legitimate discussion and probably will be for the better part of the season.

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Yes Ellis had a bad game(Philly), but its only 1 bad game!

Yes the d-men aren't playing well(again as a team) but back when I bashed them there were tons of excuses for them as well. So either the Canes have to get a stay at home defensive style of play,(style or player) or they have to trade some of our so-called offensive d-men for that kind of player. So which one is it, do we have to change the style of defense or do we have to change players.

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In this case, I prefer to look at objective data and not make assumptions.

The data shows Ellis is still was doing well.

Corrected that for you, based on looking at it objectively and Ellis' .667 SV% during his last outing.

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Had a chance to see the Canes / Ottawa game live. Though Ellis looked good in net, I must admit Ottawa looked tired and out of rhythm. Nevertheless the thing we noticed was that LaRose and all the Checkers guys were easily out gunned on most every puck battle. And this team really struggles to get a good shot on Goal due to poor ability to move and or control the puck. A great point to note was WOW Semin is the real deal, and Dywer who is two strides faster than most all others on the ice, needs to be utilized more... Lots of holes on this team other than defense issues.... Just my tow cents here...

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Had a chance to see the Canes / Ottawa game live. Though Ellis looked good in net, I must admit Ottawa looked tired and out of rhythm. Nevertheless the thing we noticed was that LaRose and all the Checkers guys were easily out gunned on most every puck battle. And this team really struggles to get a good shot on Goal due to poor ability to move and or control the puck. A great point to note was WOW Semin is the real deal, and Dywer who is two strides faster than most all others on the ice, needs to be utilized more... Lots of holes on this team other than defense issues.... Just my tow cents here...

I hear ya, it was Ottawa's 3rd game in 4 nights, they looked sluggish but still only gave up 1 goal. Where has LaRose been?

We need to get tougher. A lot tougher. This team is soft.

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Corrected that for you, based on looking at it objectively and Ellis' .667 SV% during his last outing.

And if Ellis play another 46 minutes their game time will be equal. But he would have to let in 10 goals to match Cams 16 GA.

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As of right now, here's how Dan's stats are looking. I also put Cam's numbers in as a point of reference.

Record

Ellis 2-1 67%

Ward 3-3 50%

Goals Against Average

Ellis 1.99

Ward 3.18

Save %

Ellis 94%

Ward 91%

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The data doesn't lie but to make the data fair, shouldn't the comparison be for the same amount of games played?

That's why I like working with % data such as GAA as time-on-ice is already factored in (via the denominator). Winng% and Save% also mitigate the issue as they also have a denominator in the computation.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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It's probably worth noting also that in his releif appearance he stopped 11/12, and in the last two games he has a save percentage of .966. And these were not shots from center ice, as anyone who watched Ottawa take point blank shots all night can attest.

Cam has stopped 86/89 shots over two games.

Becoming safer and safer to assume that Elite Cam is back.

Now, about allowing 89 shots in two games......that is an issue.

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Now, about allowing 89 shots in two games......that is an issue.

Now don't bring up that idea again or you'll be called a Ward apologist for talking about the Canes lack of D.

Seriously, it's the biggest problem for any Canes goalie. Guess what team currently leads the league in shots against per game? If you guessed Canes, you'd be correct. Wanna try last year for the whole season? Canes again. How about the season before that? Canes. Notice that I didn't say"among league leaders", I said leading the league.

In my opinion, anybody that lays the blame on any goalie is taking the easy road because he is the last line of defense. When you consistently lead the league in shots against, you are going to struggle. Defense not clearing pucks after an initial save is a big part in this and results in a lot of times when the goalie has little to no chance of making a save.

Yeah, it's the elephant in the room.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Agree. Some expert on XM was asked if he thought the Canes make the playoffs. He said no because "they are too loose". We don't have to be the biggest shut down team in the league, but we need to be better.

We did it against a tired Ottawa team that had just lost Heatly in our barn once, but that's about it.

We should work on this in every practice and start using the press box to get the point home also.

We are going to give up shots w/ our system, but we can't stay at the very bottom and expect great things.

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Got the Sarcasm alert dreaded, but you got me thinking so I checked.

Our cup team was #12 in the league in shots against, reg. season

Our improbable deep run team (08-09) was #17, reg. season

Don't need to be at the top, but even with Cam can't be at the bottom.

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Got the Sarcasm alert dreaded, but you got me thinking so I checked.

Our cup team was #12 in the league in shots against, reg. season

Our improbable deep run team (08-09) was #17, reg. season

Don't need to be at the top, but even with Cam can't be at the bottom.

An elite goalie will manage well at #12 or #17. No goalie is going to fare well when you are dead last in this category.

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