POLL: And with the 5th pick in the 2013 NHL Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes pick.....

[Greg-N-Ral]

If the Canes win ~25% of their remaining games (and that feels generous right now)
they'll have an excellent chance at coming in last or near last in the East!

In turn, they'll have a solid chance at Seth Jones, Nathan MacKinnon and/or Jonathan Drouin.

 

Hate to say it, but that might be the best thing for them now.

 

Image Jones (6-foot-4 defenseman and still growing, hello Chera) on the Canes!!  

Prob would boost the gate too if they get the PR machine going!

 

SEE:  

Edited June 20, 2013 by TSA

[AWACSooner]

At this point, I'll take it...but we'll probably give our pick to Ray Shero...cause that's what JR loves to do!

[Canes-Fan-In-Montreal]

I wrote in another topic that we have to concentrate on defense.  Sure, Drouin as a skilled winger would be great, and we could use MacKinnon has a 3rd line centerman growing him into a 2nd liner, but Seth Jones is the real deal on defense.  He litterally man-handled the best Juniors of the World at the World Junior Championships.  He would be a future STUD on defense.

 

SETH JONES please!

[rocheccw]

At this point, I'll take it...but we'll probably give our pick to Ray Shero...cause that's what JR loves to do!

 

For Sutter & Dumoulin...Right?

[legend-1]

I see a highlight film of a guy shooting the puck into walls of players. Final 2 minutes were good stuff first 3 minutes for the most part left me scratching my head as to how they thought those were highlights.

[djharley]

Not sure if draft pics are what can help the Canes at this point. I think we need players that can play now not a few seasons from now.! Plus most of our previous drafts haven't been what they hoped they would be. We don't need players that will help the Checkers and not the Canes..I myself am more into trades than drafts!

[coastal_caniac]

Well DJ, then how about closing the door when you leave.

 

Besides, looking at our schedule going forward, this year's draft could be the lone bright spot left to look at after this nightmare of a season is finally over.  That, and there are most certainly 8-10 guys on the board that could potentially help the Canes next season.

 

And being even remotely realistic, the Canes have done much better drafting over the last couple of years.  Take the fact that only 15% of 2nd round picks EVER play in the NHL, the addition of Faulk alone is enough to say we have had some success.  The word is still out on Victor Rask, but he's been a point per game player for two seasons in the WHL, and now he's with the Checkers.

 

With the new CBA, and the cap going down significantly next year, it's going to be even harder, or even impossible, for teams to add franchise players through FA or trades. Teams won't be making these guys available.  I agree we can help ourselves through trades in the offseason, but it will be perimeter guys and secondary scorers.  Franchise players, like Justin Faulk looks to be, will be added through the draft.

 

Over the years since I have been around here, draft topics are usually ignored, but I wouldn't be so quick to do that this year.

[Canes-Fan-In-Montreal]

I agree with you Coastal.  The way to changing this team is through the draft.  Young players make salaries that this team can afford.  There isn't much $$ to go around for players with the amount of money we have locked up already and the cap significantly dropping next season.  These young guys can also be difference makers if we get an early draft pick.  The talk of these top 3 is they are going to be huge impact players.  Comes at a low cost for a few years!  

[RonnieFranchise]

On the bright side if we lose every game from here on out we will end up with a good draft position.

[coastal_caniac]

News flash, we've already "worked" ourselves into a good draft position.

[djharley]

Here is a Few of what I am going by,,Bowman,Nash,Boychuck,Dalpe,Samson,Sutter,Peters,Welsh,McBain (over the last few years)and those are just a some off the top of my head, now if you go the other way,,Skinner,Faulk, E.Staal,Ward (over the last 13 years) to me it just shows that our scouts haven't done the greatest job as of yet. None of our bring ups never seem to make a statement in the games that they are brought up for!  Its very rarely that one of our drafts make it thru the system and when they get here they are one of our stars. The 4 that I mentioned when they got drafted came right to the Canes and wern't really brought up thru the lower level systems. So I am not shutting the door but I would see like a decent vet player to come thru it 1st !!

[SuckaPunchd]

Here is a Few of what I am going by,,Bowman,Nash,Boychuck,Dalpe,Samson,Sutter,Peters,Welsh,McBain (over the last few years)and those are just a some off the top of my head, now if you go the other way,,Skinner,Faulk, E.Staal,Ward (over the last 13 years) to me it just shows that our scouts haven't done the greatest job as of yet. None of our bring ups never seem to make a statement in the games that they are brought up for!  Its very rarely that one of our drafts make it thru the system and when they get here they are one of our stars. The 4 that I mentioned when they got drafted came right to the Canes and wern't really brought up thru the lower level systems. So I am not shutting the door but I would see like a decent vet player to come thru it 1st !!

Bowman - 72nd overall 2007

Nash - 21st overall 2007 by Edmonton (we acq him in a trade)

Boychuk - 14th overall 2008

Dalpe - 45th overall 2008

Samson - undrafted free agent signing 

Brett Sutter - 179th overall 2005 by Calgary (we acq off waivers I think)

Brandon Sutter - 11th overall 2007

Brody Sutter - 193rd overall 2011

Peters - 38th overall 2004

Welsh - undrafted free agent signing

McBain - 63rd overall 2006

 

Skinner - 7th overall 2010

Faulk - 37th overall 2010

E. Staal - 2nd overall 2003

Ward - 25th overall 2002

 

 

So a few guys you mentioned weren't drafted by us or drafted at all. But you are right, I can list off the first rounders since '89 and you'll go "Who?" and realize we've only recently drafted and retained within the organization actual NHL players in the first round, or retained none of the few future NHLers in the group.

 

10th overall 1989 - Bobby Holik (over 1.3k GP, only a little over 140 with franchise)

15th overall 1990 - Mark Greig (whopping total of 125 career NHL games  from 1990 - 2003)

9th overall 1991 - Patrick Poulin (635 GP, 101 with franchise)

9th overall 1992 - Robert Petrovicky (208 GP from 1992 - 2001, less than 82 with franchise)

2nd overall 1993 - Chris Pronger (over 1.1k GP, 124 with franchise)

5th overall 1994 - Jeff O'Neill (solid pick)

13th overall 1995 - J.S. Giguere (8GP with franchise)

 - No 1st Round selection in 1996 - 

 - No 1st Round selection in 1997 - (our 8th overall pick went to Boston in the Wesley trade, Boston got eventual calder winner Sergei Samasonov)

11th overall 1998 - Jeff Heerema (played a total of 32 career NHL games)

16th overall 1999 - David Tanabe (yes, believe it)

- No 1st Round selection in 2000 -

15th overall 2001 - Igor Knyazev (stayed in Russia/no NHL GP)

25th overall 2002 - Cam Ward (begin the success)

2nd overall 2003 - Eric Staal (614 pts in 678 GP, future HOFer if he can actually lead)

4th overall 2004 - Andrew Ladd (137 GP with franchise, 26g 24a 50pts. 108g 133a 241 pts in 386 GP since)

3rd overall 2005 - Jack Johnson (never played for franchise, traded for Gleason, Tverdovsky, +)

 - No 1st Round selection in 2006 - 

11th overall 2007 - Brandon Sutter (Traded in J. Staal deal)

14th overall 2008 Zach Boychuk (8g 20pts in 85 GP)

27th overall 2009 - Philippe Paradis (awesome trade for Jiri Tlusty, which made everyone eat crow)

7th overall 2010 - Jeff Skinner (126 pts in 177 games, great start)

12th overall 2011 - Ryan Murphy (interesting enough, the 'Canes drafted a Ryan Murphy 113th overall in '99)

 - No 1st Round selection in 2012 - (Traded in J. Staal deal)

 

 

If you want to take a real close look at the organization and ask why it's been failing to make the playoffs or produce home-grown players besides the few that have undeniable skill? Our drafting was horrendous until about 2002, and even then still in need of work, especially beyond the third round. Every other team in the NHL (with a few exceptions here or there) has had developed their farm system and major league system over time with somewhat successful drafting. Carolina never really grew from within until Eric Staal opened people's eyes, and recently Skinner reminded them of what Eric showed them.

 

Granted this isn't the only reason for our troubles, but drafting is way more important than most fans realize, and apparently more important than the organization realized (at least in the past). They drafted some big names that would have been franchise players but were constantly moved. The Whalers management never developed a line from their system to their team (or a successful one). They've caught on since coming to Carolina. They were impatient with Ladd which lead to his departure and ultimately Ladd found his game. Johnson was a debacle. And now it seems like JR is too patient with players like Bowman and Boychuk, who just simply haven't blossomed yet (and may never). However, he has yet to give Boychuk a real legit shot on our roster.

Edited April 5, 2013 by SuckaPunchd

[winger52]

What about that goalie from Quinnipiac? He's huge and after the Tampa game everyone saw what a big goalie can do. Last line of defense and all that. If we can get somebody who can be over .500 we can save over 6 mil for other defense.

[Canes-Fan-In-Montreal]

Bowman - 72nd overall 2007

Nash - 21st overall 2007 by Edmonton (we acq him in a trade)

Boychuk - 14th overall 2008

Dalpe - 45th overall 2008

Samson - undrafted free agent signing 

Brett Sutter - 179th overall 2005 by Calgary (we acq off waivers I think)

Brandon Sutter - 11th overall 2007

Brody Sutter - 193rd overall 2011

Peters - 38th overall 2004

Welsh - undrafted free agent signing

McBain - 63rd overall 2006

 

Skinner - 7th overall 2010

Faulk - 37th overall 2010

E. Staal - 2nd overall 2003

Ward - 25th overall 2002

 

 

So a few guys you mentioned weren't drafted by us or drafted at all. But you are right, I can list off the first rounders since '89 and you'll go "Who?" and realize we've only recently drafted and retained within the organization actual NHL players in the first round, or retained none of the few future NHLers in the group.

 

10th overall 1989 - Bobby Holik (over 1.3k GP, only a little over 140 with franchise)

15th overall 1990 - Mark Greig (whopping total of 125 career NHL games  from 1990 - 2003)

9th overall 1991 - Patrick Poulin (635 GP, 101 with franchise)

9th overall 1992 - Robert Petrovicky (208 GP from 1992 - 2001, less than 82 with franchise)

2nd overall 1993 - Chris Pronger (over 1.1k GP, 124 with franchise)

5th overall 1994 - Jeff O'Neill (solid pick)

13th overall 1995 - J.S. Giguere (8GP with franchise)

 - No 1st Round selection in 1996 - 

 - No 1st Round selection in 1997 - (our 8th overall pick went to Boston in the Wesley trade, Boston got eventual calder winner Sergei Samasonov)

11th overall 1998 - Jeff Heerema (played a total of 32 career NHL games)

16th overall 1999 - David Tanabe (yes, believe it)

- No 1st Round selection in 2000 -

15th overall 2001 - Igor Knyazev (stayed in Russia/no NHL GP)

25th overall 2002 - Cam Ward (begin the success)

2nd overall 2003 - Eric Staal (614 pts in 678 GP, future HOFer if he can actually lead)

4th overall 2004 - Andrew Ladd (137 GP with franchise, 26g 24a 50pts. 108g 133a 241 pts in 386 GP since)

3rd overall 2005 - Jack Johnson (never played for franchise, traded for Gleason, Tverdovsky, +)

 - No 1st Round selection in 2006 - 

11th overall 2007 - Brandon Sutter (Traded in J. Staal deal)

14th overall 2008 Zach Boychuk (8g 20pts in 85 GP)

27th overall 2009 - Philippe Paradis (awesome trade for Jiri Tlusty, which made everyone eat crow)

7th overall 2010 - Jeff Skinner (126 pts in 177 games, great start)

12th overall 2011 - Ryan Murphy (interesting enough, the 'Canes drafted a Ryan Murphy 113th overall in '99)

 - No 1st Round selection in 2012 - (Traded in J. Staal deal)

 

 

If you want to take a real close look at the organization and ask why it's been failing to make the playoffs or produce home-grown players besides the few that have undeniable skill? Our drafting was horrendous until about 2002, and even then still in need of work, especially beyond the third round. Every other team in the NHL (with a few exceptions here or there) has had developed their farm system and major league system over time with somewhat successful drafting. Carolina never really grew from within until Eric Staal opened people's eyes, and recently Skinner reminded them of what Eric showed them.

 

Granted this isn't the only reason for our troubles, but drafting is way more important than most fans realize, and apparently more important than the organization realized (at least in the past). They drafted some big names that would have been franchise players but were constantly moved. The Whalers management never developed a line from their system to their team (or a successful one). They've caught on since coming to Carolina. They were impatient with Ladd which lead to his departure and ultimately Ladd found his game. Johnson was a debacle. And now it seems like JR is too patient with players like Bowman and Boychuk, who just simply haven't blossomed yet (and may never). However, he has yet to give Boychuk a real legit shot on our roster.

 

I just want to say that I appreciate someone who does their homework!  Nicely done!!!

[remkin]

Cam Ward, Eric Staal, Andrew Ladd, Jack Johnson, Brandon Sutter, Jeff Skinner, Ryan Murphy, Philippe Paradis. Those are our last 8 picks. Those are all good to great players except Paradis who JR brilliantly turned into Tlusty. 

 

Sure we traded Ladd, but Chicago let him go after us. 

JJ was obviously a mistake since he dissed us, but we did get Gleason out of the deal.

 

On second rounders, I have the stat that only 25% ever play more than 100 games, and if you go to 200 games it drops even more. 

 

The average NHL career is just over 5 years. Over half of retired players played less than 100 games in their careers. 

 

We have Faulk and McBain 2nd rounders. McBain was THE last pick of the second round in 2006. So for second rounders we are doing ok.

 

Only 12% of all players taken after the 2nd round ever make the NHL more than a few games. Thus every 10 years someone from the mass of humanity picked 3rd round or later should make the team. Bowman was a third rounder and has played over 100 games. Not really lighting it up but still.

 

I'm not saying we've drafted the best in the NHL or anything, but it hasn't been terrible. That said the most amazing collection of late round picks has to be Detroit w/ Zetterbergh, Datsuk and Lidstrom all being late round picks. That did work out pretty well for them. 

 

But Pittsburgh, Boston, and Chicago, 3 of the past 4 cup winners all had multiple years picking at the top of the heap, then added key free agents. 

 

I am hating the way this team is playing, but given our position in draft, we've picked ok the last 8 years or so. 

Edited April 5, 2013 by remkin

[TheBigKahuna]

On the bright side if we lose every game from here on out we will end up with a good draft position.

It won't take losing them all. I think the Canes may muster 2 or 3 more wins, and I think 40 points, will put them in a top 3 pick! 

[SuckaPunchd]

Cam Ward, Eric Staal, Andrew Ladd, Jack Johnson, Brandon Sutter, Jeff Skinner, Ryan Murphy, Philippe Paradis. Those are our last 8 picks. Those are all good to great players except Paradis who JR brilliantly turned into Tlusty. 

 

Sure we traded Ladd, but Chicago let him go after us. 

JJ was obviously a mistake since he dissed us, but we did get Gleason out of the deal.

 

On second rounders, I have the stat that only 25% ever play more than 100 games, and if you go to 200 games it drops even more. 

 

The average NHL career is just over 5 years. Over half of retired players played less than 100 games in their careers. 

 

We have Faulk and McBain 2nd rounders. McBain was THE last pick of the second round in 2006. So for second rounders we are doing ok.

 

Only 12% of all players taken after the 2nd round ever make the NHL more than a few games. Thus every 10 years someone from the mass of humanity picked 3rd round or later should make the team. Bowman was a third rounder and has played over 100 games. Not really lighting it up but still.

 

I'm not saying we've drafted the best in the NHL or anything, but it hasn't been terrible. That said the most amazing collection of late round picks has to be Detroit w/ Zetterbergh, Datsuk and Lidstrom all being late round picks. That did work out pretty well for them. 

 

But Pittsburgh, Boston, and Chicago, 3 of the past 4 cup winners all had multiple years picking at the top of the heap, then added key free agents. 

 

I am hating the way this team is playing, but given our position in draft, we've picked ok the last 8 years or so. 

Yes we've improved by leaps and bounds in the first three round drafting. I'm trying to get at the fact our organizational system is shallow and weak because the franchises inability to retain drafted players, draft players worthy of drafting, or making stupid trades and moving your future for quick fixes that never fixed anything  pre-Carolina era. And now we have an organizational core without organizational depth, which is perhaps because Hartford's decisions with their young players. JR needs to be able to beef our team up, but from the inside. That comes from drafting, but also from managing those players you drafted correctly.

Edited April 5, 2013 by SuckaPunchd

[remkin]

I broached the "it would be better if we picked high" topic last year and people were not amused. 

 

But I will say this. Just opening the wallet and adding a top 2 defenseman is so easy that just about one team did it last off season, Minnesota getting Suter and it cost them the moon. Teams that have guys like Chara etc. don't tend to give them away very often, (check out the match offer Weber got). You can't just go buy these guys or even trade for them easily.

 

So picking a top 1-3 pick in the draft is huge. And those guys very often play in the NHL and contribute right away.

 

And they cost less on the entry contract. 

Edited April 5, 2013 by remkin

[SuckaPunchd]

I broached the "it would be better if we picked high" topic last year and people were not amused. 

 

But I will say this. Just opening the wallet and adding a top 2 defenseman is so easy that just about one team did it last off season, Minnesota getting Suter and it cost them the moon. 

 

So picking a top 1-3 pick in the draft is huge. And those guys very often play in the NHL and contribute right away.

 

And they cost less on the entry contract. 

If we get Jones and Murphy cracks the lineup joining Justin Faulk, there will be light at the end of the tunnel for our defense. We could build our defense around Faulk (2way), Murphy (offensive), and Jones (2way). That's if Jones is the real deal anyways.

[legend-1]

You've gotta dig into the Hartford days to find JR's last defensive success and imo it was Malik. I know when I started following the team that people hated him but he had solid numbers for the Nucks and Rangers after he left. I'm sure Whaler or someone else will fill in the blank as to why he was hate.

 

The second best? Wallin who was never more then a 3rd pairing guy but was reliable much like Harrison. Other then that I just don't trust JR drafting a D-man unless it's a top 5 pick where everyone in the world knows who should go where.

[coastal_caniac]

I broached the "it would be better if we picked high" topic last year and people were not amused. 

 

I remember that.

 

But it's different this year, it's all going to take care of itself, at least it seems that way.

[winger52]

You've gotta dig into the Hartford days to find JR's last defensive success and imo it was Malik. I know when I started following the team that people hated him but he had solid numbers for the Nucks and Rangers after he left. I'm sure Whaler or someone else will fill in the blank as to why he was hate.

 

The second best? Wallin who was never more then a 3rd pairing guy but was reliable much like Harrison. Other then that I just don't trust JR drafting a D-man unless it's a top 5 pick where everyone in the world knows who should go where.

 

I think Malik did lead the league in +/- for defense for something like 3 straight years. I agree with you as I couldn't figure out the bad rep.

[rememberthewhale]

Malik was very clumsy when he was with the Whalers and Canes he was nicknamed Big Bird as he just looked out of place on the ice he developed after he left the organization. Some of the good draft picks we had were traded for other good assets Pronger was traded for Brendon Shannan which would have been a good trade if he wanted to play in Hartford but that trade led to us acquiring Brindamour so nobody can complain about that. Guigure was traded with Cassels for Gary Roberts ( we sure could use someone like him know) and Trevor Kidd.

I hope we draft defense this year we need it bad.

[AWACSooner]

Ok, so which moderate/big-name D-men are UFA's this summer?

[Canes-Fan-In-Montreal]

If we get Jones and Murphy cracks the lineup joining Justin Faulk, there will be light at the end of the tunnel for our defense. We could build our defense around Faulk (2way), Murphy (offensive), and Jones (2way). That's if Jones is the real deal anyways.

 

If we can get the first pick and get Jones (big if I know), then bring up Murphy, and have Faulk and Gleason.  Then we trade (or attempt to) Pitkanen for Marc Staal in NY.  Then we would have a top 6 of Gleason, Faulk, Jones, Staal, Murphy and Harrison.  Sure we wouldn't be awesome right away as Murphy and Jones would need time to develop but I think we would definitely be taking a HUGE step in the right direction!  We would be well on our way to fixing our defense.  

 

What would be the cost for this to happen?  We would lose a little with Pitkanen's salary compared to Staal's (so my guess is we would have to throw something else in the deal as well), and Jones would cost $3.775 million against the cap (max salary of 0.925 and signing bonus of 2.85 million) see deals for Nugent-Hopkins and Nail Yakupov.  

 

I hate to say this but losing more games this year might actually be the first step into fixing this defensive problems!