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Greg-N-Ral

POLL: And with the 5th pick in the 2013 NHL Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes pick.....

Canes First Round Pick?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Canes do with thier first round pick?

    • Pick Sean Monohan, C
      3
    • Pick Aleksander Barkov, C (if available)
      10
    • Pick Valerie Nichushkin, RW (if available)
      12
    • Pick Darnell Nurse, D
      1
    • Pick Rasmus Ristolainen, D
      0
    • Trade Down out of 5th pick, ex: get 8th and 16th overall)
      8
    • Trade Up, get an elite top-3 pick (won't come cheap)
      0


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it's obvious that nashville wont go after nichushkin  and would be entirely based around that radulov  scenario .  they will go for barkov and because he is ranked 1st among european skaters  and one above that over nichushkin. but i will say this .  if carolina does not draft nichushkin , well you can bet any of the other teams below calgary will draft him and they wont be sorry .  as to why calgary would pass on nichushkin it  is because shinkaruk  is from calgary , he plays in the whl for the medicine hat tigers and is a high skilled forward with crosby like hands when it comes to shooting the puck .  keep in mind  though Shinkaruk is no crosby  , that much is evident but that is who calgary would go after and plus he would make for a home town favorite .  but no doubt in my mind edmonton would draft nichushkin  due to the size factor and his push with the puck down the ice  is almost unreal when he is doing that at his young age against khl players . the very same khl players that if they wanted to they could play in the nhl due to their talent .   

 

here is carolinas saving grace if we choose not to go after nichushkin  , it would be mantha , a big power forward who scored 50 goals last season . and play either the winger position or center .  but mantha is rank a little down the list  it would be best served to trade down in that case to just get him around that 8- 14 spot if it ever came down to it .  

 

i want to see nichushkin wearing a carolina jersey at the end of the day though .  this guy is said to have malkin like talent  , you know evgeni malkin , the same malkin who man handled carolina  back in 2009 at the eastern conference finals for the pittsburgh penguins 

to then go on and win his team a stanley cup . 

 

nichushkin  has speed , he has passing , he has a shot , he has size , he has skating ability to get the puck and he has the ability to hold onto the puck , he has all the tools of a pro like eric cole has in his prime but nichushkin is at the age of 18 and only shows progress to potentially become better .   guys , i know you all have your worries and doubts about this guy but lay them to rest, he will come over if he is drafted by the canes .  i've seen an interview recently  on his thoughts about coming over to the nhl . his eyes lit up with excitement  when asked if he would or not , and he mentioned he looked forward to the idea of playing against talent like malkin , crosby , ovechkin  .  ask yourself this /  if the canes draft nichushkin, would he not be facing that very same talent  next season ? with the realignment coming next season , nichushkin most would  be playing against these guys . and he would love it .   also add in semin , he could take him under his wing and help nichushkin in areas .  

 

here is my top 6 offensive lines for the canes next season 

 

tlusty / e.staal /semin

ruutu / j.staal / nichushkin 

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I'll be honest, I was really excited about the potential the Cane's had going into this season with the Semin signing/J Staal trade and I was hoping for a playoff run. However, now that it's over, I'm actually much happier that we're not going to miss out on a top 5 pick in this draft. I'm pretty excited about a player like Nichushkin or any of the top 5 really. If we can solve the KHL/Russian risk situation, I think we're going to have a special player. I really feel like Semin becomes the key to all of it too. I'm not sure what Nichushkin's English speaking skills are like (I'm assuming they're not very good or are nonexistent) but we have a Russian superstar on our team who could translate/teach him. It's almost perfect!

 

This is the part where I get super jacked up and excited about next season's potential and then I realize we're still 5 long, long months away from puck dropping. 

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I am not at all well versed on the late first round early second round, but it stands to reason that in this "best draft in NHL history" there might be a pretty decent defenseman available at #35. Not an NHL ready guy mind you, but a easy solid top 4 in a few years guy. 

 

I do wonder what Skinner thinks about playing third line center. J. came here to NOT be on the third line, so moving him there won't work. On one hand Skinner could feast on bottom pair defenseman trying to cope with the spin-o-rama. On the other hand finding him quality offensive wingers to keep the d from just glomming onto him could be a challenge. 

 

Also, while he is far from elite, I have really liked what Nash has brought, and wonder what his upside might be. Nash does not seem like the winger type. 

 

Of course could go Nash/Ruutu/Cooke ha! And go Skinner/J./Nichushkin

 

I actually like the sound of those lines, so long as Cooke is really reformed. That third line would score and hit. And don't have to Jussi Skinner onto line 3, and if that second line clicked and the third did also. Holy cow Batman! Good luck defending those 9.

Edited by remkin

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Obviously it could change pretty quickly, but I don't know that I'd expect to see Nichushkin on the second line right away. I would expect to see him get his start on the third line with either Jeff or Riley and probably Dwyer.

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I do wonder what Skinner thinks about playing third line center.

 

That's partly what the year end interview is about, right?  I assume Skins went to his.

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Just wanted to add a couple things about Nichushkin and his KHL contract. He has a 2 year deal with Dynamo signed, and there is an option to terminate it/buy it out. If Nichushkin goes that route, he'd have to pay to buy his own contract out. That being said, while the new team cannot pay for that, contract bonuses could in the NHL. And I'd say Nichushkin has a good chance of attaining some of the bonuses listed for first-year players. Another bonus is having Semin, who speaks Russian, to help Nichushkin should we draft him and he buys his contract out to play in the NHL fit into the lineup and establish his role on the roster and in the system.

 

And then there's the possibility Nichushkin plays out his contract in the KHL. That might be awesome for both Nichushkin and the organization. We haven't been the most successful developing prospects, so letting Nichushkin play a couple years in the KHL not to mention in bigger rinks will only help his game develop more completely, possibly faster. He'd be more comfortable being in Russia to develop and by the time he plays a game with the 'Canes he'd be pretty much an immediate star on the team. And with the bigger rinks in the KHL, his skating and speed will increase (which already is fast). And if he gains more speed, he'll only become more dangerous considering his north-south game. And one could assume a north-south game produces more in a smaller rink.

 

If Nichushkin falls to us and JR lets him go I'd lose it. And it seems most likely of the top 5 to be 5th. Jones, MacKinnon, and Drouin are easy 1, 2, 3. Then it's between Barkov and Nichushkin, with Barkov's recent production and Nichushkin's Russian factor, you'd assume Barkov goes 4th. That leaves us with Nichushkin, Monahan, and Lindholm. And between those three, if you don't choose Nichushkin you're making a mistake. Even with the possible wait.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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SuckaPunched, I don't know for absolute certainty that you are wrong, but I believe the info you've provided about the Nichiskin contract status isn't current.  It's my understanding that ....

 

Team Dynamo has in fact bought out Nichuskin's contract from Traktor and he now is an equivalent of a Dynamo RFA.  Russian media reports that there are contract negotiations that have taken place, but there is no contract between Nichuskin and Dynamo in place at this time. 

 

KHL rules require that Nichuskin sign with Dynamo on the same terms he had in place with Traktor.  Therefore, unless something gets done, Nichuskin is free to come to NA this summer.  There are reports on Russian TV to that effect.

 

KHL Legal Regulation 5.36.5 states that:

 

"The new Club and the Player must sign the Contract on the same terms that were written in his Contract with the former Club.....Improvement of the terms as a result of the trade is strictly prohibited......If the Player refuses to sign the Contract with the new Club on the same terms that were written in his contract with the previous Club, the player is assigned the Conflict status."

The conflict status clauses basically say that the new club holds his rights in the KHL and lesser Russian minor leagues.

 

So, the door is open if he chooses to come this summer as I understand the latest developments.  He has already stated he will be at the upcoming NHL combine.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Thanks for pointing that out, I read elsewhere he had signed a two-year contract with Dynamo with a clause specific to it's termination, but only during April of 2014 or something like that. But I haven't been able to find a source, at least in English, so good catch.

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If it becomes clear that Nich is free and clear, it could get very interesting because he could well go before #5. Of course some other really nice player would then fall.

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If it becomes clear that Nich is free and clear, it could get very interesting because he could well go before #5. Of course some other really nice player would then fall.

Exactly. If Nich rises, one of Drouin, MacKinnon, Barkov falls and we still get a really really really good young player.

 

That said I still want us to snag Nichushkin. I'd take him first overall if he didn't have a potential two year, four million dollar contract with Dynamo up his sleeve. Although he was reportedly very upset about the trade. Traktor was his hometown team and he had planned to play there for two more years then making the jump to the NHL. He has said he  doesn't want to play for any other team in the KHL and that he felt they were trying to dictate his career before it really started and these facts are what are fueling the possibility he buys himself out to come to NA.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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If it becomes clear that Nich is free and clear, it could get very interesting because he could well go before #5. Of course some other really nice player would then fall.

i don't see that happening , and i mean him getting picked up over drouin or mackinon  or  even barkov .  not to say it can never happen . but most likely it's not going to happen .  first lets start with the idea that tampa or nashville could trade their pick , okay so that leaves out one key area , what teams would be looking to move up in the draft this year  to then draft nichushkin ?  in my opinion that leaves washington and detroit  , i know they are no stranger to russian players ,  but even then i don't really see detroit or washington making that move when they could both  go after vladimir tkachyov  when ever he becomes available .   so the idea of nichushkin  getting picked up before we could get him is just not likely .

 

plus giving the teams that are ahead of us and in this years draft and players to choose from , it's almost perfect as to  what each of these players are going to be going to their teams based around their style of play ,  for example 

 

colorado wants to be the rolling avalanche like they were in the past  , seth jones fits their system perfectly to be that added piece in the back they have long been waiting for . 

 

florida is a pretty good elite team but they need that center piece to base all of their talent around , ENTER nathan mackinnon  , just the guy to fill in that role to be the head piece and would fit their system perfectly 

 

tampa still has martin st louis but they know that with age comes retirement  , and it so happens to be that in this years draft they could very well be looking at another martin st louis with drouin who would more than likely be that guy to fill in for tampa if the day were to ever come to pass and st louis retires . 

 

nashville has been burnt in the past with that radulov  situation  so i don't think they are looking for another russian any time soon ,  also take into their account barkov is  1st among european skaters , with his size and ability he would be able to only add more depth for the preds , 

 

so now that leaves carolina , we are 5th , there are a lot of things carolina needs but a rookie defense man is not one of them since rutherford has made it perfectly clear that he wants some  veteran  defense men on the team .  so defense in this years draft is ruled out at least for the canes in the first round ,  so now you think of goalies and forwards .   but subban is  ranked a little low  on the list   

he would be a good fit for carolina but to me he seems to be going to be going in late in the first round , maybe montreal might go after him , they already have 1 subban why not another ? .  so goalies are ruled out ,   that only leaves the canes with  forwards in the first round .  you guys know who i want on this team , it should be obvious  and i have already mentioned the scenario  what if carolina trades down and who we should get .  

 

thats it  im calling it , the canes will definitely be drafting  nichushkin . im convinced 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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I'm really bad at picking who we will pick in the draft. I'm really bad at evaluating draft picks. I think I have narrowed the field but haven't made up my mind yet so I'll wait to vote in the poll.

 

I do think I know who we won't take. We won't take a D-man. We are looking for instant gratification and JR said in his presser we would look for one or two veteran D-man. No room for a rookie on the Blue Line unless your last name is Jones.

 

I don't think we will take Nichiskin. This is a guy that could make an instant impact (I think) but there are so many flags popping up. KHL contract, unhappy with KHL trade, price of contract and on and on. The reward would be great but the risk is high. We have been burnt before Babchuk, JJ and recently Fredrik Andersen. I don't see us risking our 5 pick.

 

So who should we pick. I'll get back to you on this.

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 We won't take a D-man. We are looking for instant gratification and JR said in his presser we would look for one or two veteran D-man. No room for a rookie on the Blue Line unless your last name is Jones.

 

I don't think we will take Nichiskin. 

 

If you are right, then that frames the debate in an interesting and different way. 

 

Predicting how picks will actually happen based on mock drafts and scouting reports is less and less accurate the farther down the draft board. That said, based on mock draft and scouting reports,  if we take Nich out, who is consensus top 5, and the two non Jones Dmen out, and assume Barkov is gone (he will be) we are basically left with a choice of two guys. 

 

So maybe we do take the Penguins approach. Pick the best forward even if he is a center. Put him on the third line for a few years. For those years we are as strong down the middle as any team in the league. Solve the log jam later. Maybe put the Staals on the same line or something....

 

If we don't take Nich or a dman we will almost certainly pick between two very good center prospects that are practically a coin flip:

 

Elias Lidholm or Sean Monohan. (who currently have one vote between them up there).

 

The two scouts on NHL.com put Monahan above Lidholm, but Lidholm gets a lot of love from mock drafters.

 

Monahan: 6-2: Supremely gifted, high tempo, 2 way player, good skater, big rangy, smart, skilled, hockey sense, deceptive shot.

 

ranks: 6,6,6,7,8,9  

 

Lidholm: 6-0: High end, 2 way, Backstrom-like, great playmaker, great skater, finess, Already excelling in Swedish elite.

 

ranks: 5,6,8,8,9,10

 

So, anyone know much about these two?

Edited by remkin

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If you are right, then that frames the debate in an interesting and different way.

 

Elias Lidholm or Sean Monohan. (who currently have one vote between them up there).

 

I thought I said picking draft choice isn't my strong suit nor is being right but it would frame the discussion in a different way. I like Lidholm better long term but I think Monohan may be the better choice for the now.

 

Two way center and responcible. Of course a lot will depend on what the brain trust decides to do with Skinner. Also if I'm wrong and we aren't looking for someone who will make an immediate impact all bets are off.

 

Still thinking out loud.

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So finally listened to JR and Muller. JR clearly saying that outside of Jones the top 6 elite are forwards and that's who they are looking at. 

 

Clearly just about everyone is putting Drouin, MacKinnon, Barkov, and Nich as elite. 

 

I wonder if our scouts also consider Lidholm and/or  Monahan elite. 

 

Such a subjective term. I have seen "high end" and "supremely gifted" to Lidholm and Monahan respectively. But in this draft elite means pretty elite. 

 

If you go back and look at the compilation of mock drafts, December though January Monahan was #5, then Jan-Feb six in a row had Lidholm at #5, but March and later none have either in the top 5. 

 

Both of these guys are projected as very very good players, but Nich.....keeps things interesting.

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Reading some stuff on prospects came across Craig Button's thoughts on some guys at under 18 championships.

 

Anyway here's a guy for our second round pick:

 

Samuel Morin: 6'6" defenseman. Ranked #23 NA skater (but Europeans will fill in ahead so should be there).

 

Rugged, Skates, Can make a play with the puck.

Reminds of Chara, but more polished than Chara at that age. 

 

Not NHL ready, but what potential!

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I don't pay much attention to mock drafts, mostly because they never end up being right, particularly past the first couple of picks.

 

Monahan is such a JR pick, if you are asking the question who we actually will draft.  But I know that's not what this poll is, so I'll just keep quiet until the combine has ended.

 

I agree completely Nichuskin keeps thing interesting.

 

As far as our first pick in the second (#35), if Fucale falls to us I expect that to be our pick.  We have been scouting him pretty hard.  I doubt he falls quite that far though.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Hmmm. Goalie.

 

As to the poll, the main thing was just to see who people would pick OR who the team would pick of who is likely available. 

This would include who the Canes are actually likely to take since they can't take someone not there (unless they trade up which is very very unlikely).

 

I would be very interested in your thoughts about who you and others think the team will actually take. Are you saying you would predict we end up taking Monahan?

 

 On Mock Drafts: I do find it fun to cull them together and try to find a consensus. It's all conjecture, but it's something to do. I completely agree with you about their lack of predictive ability especially past the first few picks. 

Edited by remkin

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One thing I weigh fairly heavily when I try and predict who we will take is how the Canes have tended to draft in the past.

 

In the first round, for example, the Hurricanes have never drafted a European player.  Never.  We've only drafted one Russian.  The other 12 are NA's (US=3; CA=9).

 

If you look at the team's whole body of work in all rounds, which includes 118 players since 1997, 92(89%) have been North Americans.  The rest, 1 Russian and 25 Euro's.

 

I'm not suggesting JR will not draft a Euro or a Russian at #5 overall, but it's pretty obvious if two players (one Euro, one CA or US) are ranked fairly closely, we tend to go with the North American player.

 

That in and of itself, could play out this year.

 

The second thing that intrigues me in this particular draft, and should be considered, is the fact JR seems to want to add a player that can help now.  He's stated at least 5 times, including his latest interview with Muller, that he's looking to add an impact player in this draft that can help now ((when translated that really means entry level contract).

 

Finally, it's pretty obvious that Muller, based upon his own statements, wants a third line that can score.  He also wants to add some size to the bottom six to make us more difficult to play against.  But, that can't come at the expense of being defensively responsible.

 

Put all these together, and looking at the final Central Scouting rankings (ISS tends not to be as good a predictor of what teams actually do), I have an opinion at this point in time who I think the Canes will pick based on all the above, and how other teams will likely draft ahead of us.

 

Given you have Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin as not availabe at #5:

 

- I don't think Nashville will draft Nich.  Not many people do.  It wouldn't surprise me to see them take Monahan   

  over Barkov though.

 

- Until the Nich situation becomes a little more clear, I don't see us drafting him.

 

-  So, if it comes down to Barkov, Lindholm, or Monahan, the above reasoning would have us going Monahan.

 

And then the whole "character" issue comes up, as JR puts a lot of emphasis on.  That's where the combine can separate some of these guys as well. But right now, Monahan put up consistent points (78 in 53 games) all season long on a terrible team.  To me, that says a lot.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Very well reasoned coastal. I also want to see the combine and maybe get a (very) few more clues from JR before making a who we should and/or who we will take. At this point in time I bet on Monahan.

 

I will probable change my opinion a half dozen times by the end of June.

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One thing I weigh fairly heavily when I try and predict who we will take is how the Canes have tended to draft in the past.

In the first round, for example, the Hurricanes have never drafted a European player. Never. We've only drafted one Russian. The other 12 are NA's (US=3; CA=9).

If you look at the team's whole body of work in all rounds, which includes 118 players since 1997, 92(89%) have been North Americans. The rest, 1 Russian and 25 Euro's.

I'm not suggesting JR will not draft a Euro or a Russian at #5 overall, but it's pretty obvious if two players (one Euro, one CA or US) are ranked fairly closely, we tend to go with the North American player.

That in and of itself, could play out this year.

The second thing that intrigues me in this particular draft, and should be considered, is the fact JR seems to want to add a player that can help now. He's stated at least 5 times, including his latest interview with Muller, that he's looking to add an impact player in this draft that can help now ((when translated that really means entry level contract).

Finally, it's pretty obvious that Muller, based upon his own statements, wants a third line that can score. He also wants to add some size to the bottom six to make us more difficult to play against. But, that can't come at the expense of being defensively responsible.

Put all these together, and looking at the final Central Scouting rankings (ISS tends not to be as good a predictor of what teams actually do), I have an opinion at this point in time who I think the Canes will pick based on all the above, and how other teams will likely draft ahead of us.

Given you have Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin as not availabe at #5:

- I don't think Nashville will draft Nich. Not many people do. It wouldn't surprise me to see them take Monahan

over Barkov though.

- Until the Nich situation becomes a little more clear, I don't see us drafting him.

- So, if it comes down to Barkov, Lindholm, or Monahan, the above reasoning would have us going Monahan.

And then the whole "character" issue comes up, as JR puts a lot of emphasis on. That's where the combine can separate some of these guys as well. But right now, Monahan put up consistent points (78 in 53 games) all season long on a terrible team. To me, that says a lot.

I spent an hour or so last night on YouTube watching video on Nichushkin and Monahan. Two words came to mind when hearing Monahan do interviews, future captain. When asked what his best attribute was, he said leadership. He plays a smart two-way game and one comment was that he could play in a phone booth. His shot looks sneaky/deceptive. He looks like Semin in that there will be almost no movement in his upper-body and then......the shot or pass is away. He is said to play as good without the puck as with it. It sounds like everything you would want in a third-line center with the potential for more. At best I think he could be another Toews, at worst in think he is an effective (maybe shut-down center) two-way player with intangibles. He really is a JR type pick and I think this is who we will end up drafting for the reasons stated above. I'm OK with that. There is a lot to like about this kid, with little downside IMO.

Nichushkin's rushes up ice are amazing, he looks like a wild animal charging down hill. The skating is there, the skill is there, and I believe the compete/desire is there. The main concerns right now are said to be shot accuracy and creativity/passing. Still there is no denying his size, speed, and talent. He has that WOW factor, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Nichushkin become an elite player. I would certainly be happy with Nichushkin as well (actually I would be thrilled if it worked out and he could come here next year).

Still, I just don't see us taking Nich for the reasons already stated, and I don't see us taking Lindholm because he is a Swede and I think we are looking for a little more size. I think Monahan is viewed as more complete and NHL ready at this time. Other guys may have more potential, but my guess is that JR drafts a character guy/leader who can make an immediate impact, that is Monahan. Things could change before the draft, but that is my guess right now.

Edited by Kyrule

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Does anyone know how far-reaching our scouting is globally?  How much of Nichuskin could we have seen?  I'd expect we're all over the North American Skaters (Juniors and College, etc.), and probably several European leagues.  I have no idea how vast or small our resources are, or access to video by them to evaluate players strengths, weaknesses, etc in various aspects of evaluation.  How much is obtained from shared/pooled resources (if that exists)?

 

The Internet is great, but I'd like to understand how the Pros do it, if anyone knows.  Thanks.

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Most of that stuff is compiled by the NHL's Central Scouting Services.  It's my understanding the league employs a top-European scout and his staff to compile the rankings for European prospects.  The league then takes everything from NA and Europe and combines that to form the rankings that come out several times a year.

 

So, I'm not sure how much time any individual team has invested in actually watching games in Europe.

 

I think the combine is where a lot of the decisions are made based on the rankings.

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This team has never seen a player like Nichushkin within reasonable grasp. If we pass on him because he's Russian I'd boycott the Hurricanes until August. hahaha like that's possible

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