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Greg-N-Ral

POLL: And with the 5th pick in the 2013 NHL Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes pick.....

Canes First Round Pick?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Canes do with thier first round pick?

    • Pick Sean Monohan, C
      3
    • Pick Aleksander Barkov, C (if available)
      10
    • Pick Valerie Nichushkin, RW (if available)
      12
    • Pick Darnell Nurse, D
      1
    • Pick Rasmus Ristolainen, D
      0
    • Trade Down out of 5th pick, ex: get 8th and 16th overall)
      8
    • Trade Up, get an elite top-3 pick (won't come cheap)
      0


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Sucka i understand the issue with trading skinner. JR has dug himself into a hole that he may be able to get out of without trading a top 6 guy. He has way overpaid for both staals, skins(in the short term), and ruutu. He slightly overpaid for pits(only because he cant stay healthy), gleason, and semin.

Who in that bunch is tradeable? After next season we have to re-sign faulk and tlusty. Tlusty could be another 5 mil forward if his play continues. We already 44 million in cap money committed to only 9 players for 14-15. Staal, Staal, Semin, Skins, Gleason, Ward, Ruutu, Dwyer, Harrison. That leaves JR about 20 mil to get faulk and tlusty re-signed and get/re-sign/call up 1 goalie, 4 dmen, and 5 forwards. The money runs out quickly especially when you can figure tlusty and faulk are going to cost 9 mil to re-sign.

Skins has value now and it will hurt us in the long run to trade him. Does JR really have a choice though? I dont think he does.

that's why I say draft at five and create depth with forwards, then we can afford trading someone like Skinner, even though I'd prefer moving Ruutu. As much as I like him he doesn't equal Skinners value to the organization in the long run. Yes he has a NMC but I'd expect he'd be willing to lift it, especially with our lack of success recently. The person I want moved most of all is Pitkanen. He can't stay healthy at all and just takes up cap space lately. and we'd keep our forward depth for potential future moves mid season or trade deadline depending on the teams record next year.

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My guess is JR only trades the 5th pick if he's offered a top 4 d-man along with a top 10 pick this year. That would take one of the teams drafting 6-10 to really covet the last of the "top five". It's possible, but most likely we stay at #5 and add great forward depth. Then JR makes his best offer to his top 4 d-man he has targeted. If he doesn't land him then he starts working on trade negotiations.

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Michael Smith @MSmithCanes 2h

Rutherford said he wouldn't entertain trading up in #NHLDraft but he's keeping an open mind about trading down in right scenario

.

Rutherford on the draft TRACKING THE STORM

Quote

"There are some areas of our team that we’d like to fix sooner than later. If we had the chance to get something that helps our team immediately and not move [down] too many picks, we would at least have to have a pretty in-depth conversation about that within hockey operations.”

JR also ruled out trading up.

 

With JR saying we aren't looking at trading up but although unlikely could trade down (although not to far) for the right deal. If that happened I can't see us moving past 8th pick.Maybe 10th.

 

6 Flames

7 Oilers

8 Sabres

9 Devils

10 Stars

 

I guess we would need to get a darn good (probable young) player and 1st round pick to consider dumping our #5 pick.

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I like the idea of trading down in theory, though w/ all the press that Nich is getting, the top 5 really seems to be the sweet spot. 

 

Seems like you almost need the perfect storm for it to happen though. To get anything of value, we'd probably have to drop to at least 8, maybe lower. That would be fine if we say, "Monahan, Nurse, Lidholm, etc would all work. Then the other guy would have to have a serious crush a guy in the top 5, then have what we want. Then offer a deal we can't refuse. 

 

According to the site I have linked to several times. Dropping to 7-8 should net us that team's second round pick plus their first. If we were Boston or Chicago that would be sweet. Load up on grade A prospects, but we need at LEAST one solid good NHL level dman. Even in a good year, it is hard to imagine a good veteran dman would be equal to a second rounder, which is the historical price for a move up from say 8 to 5.

 

I wonder if we dropped to say 9, and also gave them our second rounder, could we land a really good dman from a team? We still get a blue chip pick, and immediate help. 

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If we get Nich at 5, there remains the possibility of moving Skinner or Ruutu plus maybe our 2nd rounder to get the #6 or #10 pick and grab a guy like Nurse, Ristolainen or Zadorov.  I doubt we move either of those guys to an Eastern Conference team, if at all.   

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Talking this in the draft thread also. But I'm thinking a top 4 dman is a steep price to move up 3-4 spots in a very deep draft. Now if someone really wanted to take say McBain off of our hands.... 

 

Really I wonder if we throw in our second rounder and our 5 for another teams's 8 pick and a top Dman. Maybe we throw in McBain too....

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Talking this in the draft thread also. But I'm thinking a top 4 dman is a steep price to move up 3-4 spots in a very deep draft. Now if someone really wanted to take say McBain off of our hands.... 

 

Really I wonder if we throw in our second rounder and our 5 for another teams's 8 pick and a top Dman. Maybe we throw in McBain too....

Remkin, that's what I've been hoping for all along.

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I'd say great minds think alike, but I just really doubt it happens. If we could get the right Dman it would be a good deal though. It just seems like too many things would have to fall just right. And yet, it is hard to see at the moment how JR acheives the essential defensive fixes without a trade.

 

 

Still for the sake of argument. I would think that Edmonton would want defense after all those #1 picks up front, (though actually they didn't give up as many goals as most terrible teams). Plus after all those super stud #1 picks they aren't likely to fall in love w/ Nich or Barkov or even Drouin. Plus they are only two back and moving up 2 should cost less...

 

So does NJ, Buffalo, or Dallas have any Dmen worth giving up a prime slot and a high second rounder in possibly the deepest draft in the history of mankind? And would they part with them to move up? 

 

Seems like a long shot both ways. 

 

I think we pick at 5 either Nich or Barkov and with our center log jam and Nich's upside and having Semin around, I'm hoping Nich.

 

That said, it will not matter if JR cannot put together at least an honestly average NHL defense. The teams that gave up the most goals last year are the teams picking in the top 10 this year. A team almost has to at least be middle of the pack on defense.

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If we get Nich at 5, there remains the possibility of moving Skinner or Ruutu plus maybe our 2nd rounder to get the #6 or #10 pick and grab a guy like Nurse, Ristolainen or Zadorov.  I doubt we move either of those guys to an Eastern Conference team, if at all.   

I agree with the gist of your post but with a little twist. As I've posted on another thread, draft Nich or Barkov at #5, then trade Skinner out West for top tier d-man, Yandle...maybe throw in McBain too. This way you have a proven young asset in Yandle vs a very good draft paick that is still an NHL unkown. Just a thought...

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I agree with the gist of your post but with a little twist. As I've posted on another thread, draft Nich or Barkov at #5, then trade Skinner out West for top tier d-man, Yandle...maybe throw in McBain too. This way you have a proven young asset in Yandle vs a very good draft paick that is still an NHL unkown. Just a thought...

 

It's a fun idea to play with here...the reality is tougher though.  Skinner is still so young and has so much potential it is hard to really see a situation where you'd really move him.  2 years from now when Ruutu's contract is up, the team could have Nich really hitting his stride and a devastating top 6 with Semin E Staal Tlusty and Skinner J. Staal Nich...2 years from NOW 2 of those guys would just be turning 30 and they are the old men of those pairings.  I trust JR will find a way to move McBain and we'll get a solid 2 way guy not a star power name but a steady player.  My bet is still on Andre Benoit out of Ottowa, 33 games, 54 blocked shots, in 16:25/game...that slots in very nicely for us and will not cost 3 arms and 2 legs. 

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It's a fun idea to play with here...the reality is tougher though.  Skinner is still so young and has so much potential it is hard to really see a situation where you'd really move him.  2 years from now when Ruutu's contract is up, the team could have Nich really hitting his stride and a devastating top 6 with Semin E Staal Tlusty and Skinner J. Staal Nich...2 years from NOW 2 of those guys would just be turning 30 and they are the old men of those pairings.  I trust JR will find a way to move McBain and we'll get a solid 2 way guy not a star power name but a steady player.  My bet is still on Andre Benoit out of Ottowa, 33 games, 54 blocked shots, in 16:25/game...that slots in very nicely for us and will not cost 3 arms and 2 legs. 

My comments were based on JR's about going after a top tier d-man. There are none in the UFA market this year, so that leaves a trade or compliance buyout to get somebody. Many teams are looking for a high-end defenseman, so the cost maybe dear, ie: Skinner, IMO. I don't think Benoit reaches JR's target player level ... plus he's a bit undersized, again IMO..

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My comments were based on JR's about going after a top tier d-man. There are none in the UFA market this year, so that leaves a trade or compliance buyout to get somebody. Many teams are looking for a high-end defenseman, so the cost maybe dear, ie: Skinner, IMO. I don't think Benoit reaches JR's target player level ... plus he's a bit undersized, again IMO..

There are a couple, but the price to sign them would be real high. Streit reportedly turned down NYI's best offer so he's moving on, I imagine JR would poke around but get scared off by the asking price, unless he decides to buyout someones big contract like Pits or maybe convince Cam Ward to resign at a lower rate for a longer period. But honestly our cap is way unbalanced. We pay our top 6 big money, so you'd imagine we'd have one of the better offenses in the league. We have potential to get there in a year or two, but at the cost of a solid defense. I can see him targeting O'Byrne and that's it or someone comparable. Our defense wasn't entirely horrible until Ward got injured, so I don't think JR wants to rebuild our defense, just tweak it. I'd love a guy like Yandle, but not at the cost of Skinner, not yet. I think JR will have to re-evaluate the contracts and buy out one of the worst ones we have if he wants to have any real spending money, considering we have like 6 - 7 million in space, and need to get a new top 4 dman, and a few bottom six guys, including at least one decent veteran.

 

Of course, a few new faces will be on our blueline this year, I'd say three tops. The top 4 guy, Murphy, and possibly Bellemore. That means McBain definitely moves, but someone else will as well.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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There are a couple, but the price to sign them would be real high. Streit reportedly turned down NYI's best offer so he's moving on, I imagine JR would poke around but get scared off by the asking price, unless he decides to buyout someones big contract like Pits or maybe convince Cam Ward to resign at a lower rate for a longer period. But honestly our cap is way unbalanced. We pay our top 6 big money, so you'd imagine we'd have one of the better offenses in the league. We have potential to get there in a year or two, but at the cost of a solid defense. I can see him targeting O'Byrne and that's it or someone comparable. Our defense wasn't entirely horrible until Ward got injured, so I don't think JR wants to rebuild our defense, just tweak it. I'd love a guy like Yandle, but not at the cost of Skinner, not yet. I think JR will have to re-evaluate the contracts and buy out one of the worst ones we have if he wants to have any real spending money, considering we have like 6 - 7 million in space, and need to get a new top 4 dman, and a few bottom six guys, including at least one decent veteran.

 

Of course, a few new faces will be on our blueline this year, I'd say three tops. The top 4 guy, Murphy, and possibly Bellemore. That means McBain definitely moves, but someone else will as well.

You're right about the cap situation and that's why I really think JR has to make any major move(s) via trade(s) first. This is another reason I feel Jeff could be a trade candidate for a d-man with a similar sized contract. Maybe we could get somebody like Eric Peterson ($3.5M), especially if the Avs take Jones, for McBain and a Checker or Sangs. If JR backs off a top guy, then I'd like to see him go after UFA O'Bryne and his big, physical body for a 3rd pairing with Smurphy. I don't see how the Canes will have room for McBain, Harrison, Sangs, Corvo (UFA), and MAB (UFA) given JR's objective for the D and the rise of Murphy and Bellemore.

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You're right about the cap situation and that's why I really think JR has to make any major move(s) via trade(s) first. This is another reason I feel Jeff could be a trade candidate for a d-man with a similar sized contract. Maybe we could get somebody like Eric Peterson ($3.5M), especially if the Avs take Jones, for McBain and a Checker or Sangs. If JR backs off a top guy, then I'd like to see him go after UFA O'Bryne and his big, physical body for a 3rd pairing with Smurphy. I don't see how the Canes will have room for McBain, Harrison, Sangs, Corvo (UFA), and MAB (UFA) given JR's objective for the D and the rise of Murphy and Bellemore.

Sangs is also an unrestricted free agent. Personally I think Corvo, Sangs, and Bergeron all need to go. Oh, also, it is Eric Johnson that is on Colorado. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, just clarifying for others.

Edited by Kyrule

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I really don't understand the hype some of us have for Erik Johnson. He's done nothing but disappoint since coming into this league, and I don't think that changes coming here, only magnifies it with him being on a worse blueline.

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Sangs is also an unrestricted free agent. Personally I think Corvo, Sangs, and Bergeron all need to go. Oh, also, it is Eric Johnson that is on Colorado. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, just clarifying for others.

Hah! I don't know where Peterson came from...must be old-age. Luckily you read my mind. Thanks for the assist. To me Johnson would be an option if you can't get a top tier guy and don't want a 3rd pairing big, physical guy.

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I don't see Harrison going anywhere. He's the type of dman we lack.

IMO, Harry is on the bubble. He's most effected by who comes from the Checkers and who JR brings in via trade or UFA. He's really a character guy

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I think Harrison is the exact player JR was talking about when he said some guys were pushed into positions that they're not cut out for. I'm thinking JR thinks Harrison will be fine so long has he is not forced out of the bottom pairing. 

 

If we are going to mega improve in one move, we need a top pair guy. Put him with Faulk, and let Gleason, Pits form a decent second pair and Harrison/Murphy. But top 4 guy in, McBain out will make a big improvement. 

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I'm pretty sure McBain hitched a ride with Rosie.

 

Am I crazy thinking how we could move down a few spots, get an NHL-ready defenseman for doing so, then drafting one of the guys who supposedly bring some nasty (Nurse, Ristolainen, Zadarov)?  And we still have the 35th pick in a really deep draft. 

 

I guess I am because I said it would be dumb to do that a month ago.

 

We could go all Isles of a couple of years ago when they went all defense in their entire draft.  Too bad they aren't picking 6-8.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Obviously, if an NHL ready defenseman is drafted, this changes things a bit. But I don't expect anyone other than Jones will be NHL ready, and I don't see the Canes drafting him, so...

I agree with acquiring a top 4 defenseman, and I would like to see it structured something like this:

Pitkanen (L) - Faulk ( R)
Gleason (L) - UFA/trade "A" (preferably R)
Harrison (L) - McBain ( R)
UFA "B" (preferably L)

First call-ups:
Bellemore ( R)
Murphy ( R)

I think a pairing of Pitkanen and Faulk would work well. It would provide the mobility to allow Pitkanen to operate at his best, while adding more defensive awareness to the pairing. And I think Faulk is one of the few that would be able to handle Pitkanen's playing style.
 
I can't see Pitkanen and Gleason playing well together. Besides both being left handed shots, I don't think their styles of play mesh well. Pitkanen does best with a more mobile partner - that's one reason he and McBain work well together.
 
That would mean that Gleason would be paired with the new "top guy". It may be an easier task to find a fit there, rather than finding someone compatible with Pitkanen. Preferable, this will be a defensively responsible defenseman, with reasonable mobility. Basically, a good all-around defenseman, with enough size and will to help clear the crease. This could operate as the shut-down pair, allowing Pitkanen and Faulk to vary between offfensive and defensive emphasis, depending on the situation.
 
While I agree in some sense that Harrison is "on the bubble", at least as far as what he offers on the ice, he is also a good partner for the young guys. He is a good communicator, and really seems to help the guys coming up settle in and do what they need to be doing. It is possible that the new guy(s) brought in will be able to do that as well, but he is currently the only one on the team well suited for that role.
 
And that is one of the reasons I would have him paired with McBain. McBain has pretty much, from day one, been paired with Pitkanen. And that has been a good thing, since finding a partner for Pitkanen has been challenging. And McBain has done okay in that role - even playing top 4 minutes. But that has prevented him from working on playing a simple defensive game - something Harrison can help him with.
 
Now, Rutherford may find a trade involving McBain that makes sense, but I think there are some good reasons to keep him unless the offer is good.
 
The first reason is that I think he is a better defenseman than he is generally given credit for. He does make mistakes, and whenever someone is picked out as "mistake prone" then every mistake is noticed. But he can play good defense, and if he learns to simplify his game, and can improve his focus (which I think playing third pairing minutes with Harrison can  help with) then I don't think it is unreasonable to expect him to become a capable second pairing defenseman with some offensive capabilities. He is still relatively young in defenseman terms.
 
The second reason is that he plays well with Pitkanen. And that is a rare trait. While partly it would just be nice to have a back-up plan if neither Faulk nor the new guy works well with Pitkanen, even if they do it would be good to have McBain available as a partner if there are injuries.
 
And that is where problems came up, after all. So having McBain, and preferably a seasoned vet for the 6/7 role, will provide some depth in case of injuries. While either Bellemore or Murphy may be able to handle playing in the NHL, having them on the NHL roster reduces the caliber of player available to call up when needed.
 

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