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Greg-N-Ral

POLL: And with the 5th pick in the 2013 NHL Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes pick.....

Canes First Round Pick?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Canes do with thier first round pick?

    • Pick Sean Monohan, C
      3
    • Pick Aleksander Barkov, C (if available)
      10
    • Pick Valerie Nichushkin, RW (if available)
      12
    • Pick Darnell Nurse, D
      1
    • Pick Rasmus Ristolainen, D
      0
    • Trade Down out of 5th pick, ex: get 8th and 16th overall)
      8
    • Trade Up, get an elite top-3 pick (won't come cheap)
      0


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If McBain reads these boards, someone is going to have to talk him down from a ledge soon.

 

:injured:

 

Well maybe McBain would benefit from a change in scenery. Lord knows there are a lot of guys we've let go still having nice NHL careers many of them in the playoffs. And he arrived with so much very early success putting up points that if continued would have made him a super elite offensive dman. But there's the rub. He is a major defensive liability. His early plus rating predictably dropped by the end. And he was the most protected dman we have often playing behind our hugely plus top offensive line. So, at least he put up points?

 

Not so much. He had less points than Gleason and Harrison. PIts put up the same number of points in half the games.

 

And some of his mistakes.... :hits forehead:  ...doozies.

 

There is a reason the coaches protected him so much. There is a reason he was a healthy scratch at the start of at least two seasons. There's a reason he was shopped and is still here. I can only imagine how he'd fare in the playoffs. 

 

OK. I'm done. I'll try not to pile on. But change of scenery is the key phrase.

Edited by remkin

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Am I crazy thinking how we could move down a few spots, get an NHL-ready defenseman for doing so, then drafting one of the guys who supposedly bring some nasty (Nurse, Ristolainen, Zadarov)? And we still have the 35th pick in a really deep draft.

I don't think it's crazy or dumb (check out post 484). Like with all trades it all depends on the pieces. IF we could get a very solid (ideally top 4 w/ top 2 potential) NHL ready dman with some years on the contract and move down to say #12. We could pick from still a very very solid group. Either dman or forward, and pick up the other at #35.

Sure we give up the all world forward. And as a lover of points and flash it pains me...but I am sick of missing the playoffs, and the reason we keep missing the playoffs is porous defense.

Heck we could still take a forward 10-12 still and get a dman at #35.

I just really doubt that a team would give up a proven NHL top 2-4 Dman to move up in a deep draft. But w/ Nich or Barkov available...might be tempting for someone.

Still, with our Center log jam at the top, the idea of adding a super elite winger is just really hard to pass up....not so much a need as a strong want.

Other than the low probability of all the right pieces falling to make a deal, we are assuming JR wants an NHL ready pick. That usually means top 5.

 

What I wonder is if Nich goes at 4. Barkov is the overwhelming favorite, and being super strong down the middle is very good, but at some point we would run into the Pittsburgh Jordan Staal issue. So I wonder if it is Barkov does JR have a trade down in his back pocket? 

Edited by remkin

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Bob Wage over at Canes Counrty wrote that JR in a Edmonton radio interview named his top six in the draft as Drouin, Jones, MacKinnon, Barkov, Nichushkin, and Lindholm.

 

Not really a surprise but no Nurse or Monahan mentioned

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It seems JR's philosophy of not using first round picks on dmen is in tact. It looks like the only way he'd pick a dman is if we traded down and got one in the deal that was ready now.

 

I keep thinking that the center log jam is an issue. I guess it wouldn't be for a few years, and we could figure something out then. I guess Pittsburgh did get those years of J as #3, and then picked up a #8 pick, a dang good replacement for their third line, and a prospect. So we could take a Barokov or Lidholm or Monahan and let them work the third line for a while. 

 

Still picking Nich just seems to fit better.

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I don't think a logjam of capable third line centers exists.  At least if you want one that has proven to have some offensive upside.  Certainly Nash and Welsh have not.  Hopefully Rask could be that guy, but he may need another year of development. 

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It seems JR's philosophy of not using first round picks on dmen is in tact. It looks like the only way he'd pick a dman is if we traded down and got one in the deal that was ready now.

 

I keep thinking that the center log jam is an issue. I guess it wouldn't be for a few years, and we could figure something out then. I guess Pittsburgh did get those years of J as #3, and then picked up a #8 pick, a dang good replacement for their third line, and a prospect. So we could take a Barokov or Lidholm or Monahan and let them work the third line for a while. 

 

Still picking Nich just seems to fit better.

Plus, Ruutu plays center as well as wing, and would've most likely been in Jokinen's third line center spot if he wasn't rehabbing for the majority of the season. I think we have the personnel that'll make any scenario work, as far as on paper goes anyways.

 

I'd say Nash has some offensive upside. Note that all of third line forwards severely underperformed all season, so with Nash's numbers on the third line, they aren't as horrible as you might assume.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Plus, Ruutu plays center as well as wing, and would've most likely been in Jokinen's third line center spot if he wasn't rehabbing for the majority of the season. I think we have the personnel that'll make any scenario work, as far as on paper goes anyways.

 

I'd say Nash has some offensive upside. Note that all of third line forwards severely underperformed all season, so with Nash's numbers on the third line, they aren't as horrible as you might assume.

I doubt we would take one of our Power Forwards and have him play center. Yes Ruutu can play center but he is best on the wing.

 

With Ruu on wing Dwyer can move back to third line. Dwyer-Nash- Ruu or new wing would be a formidable third line. 

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I doubt we would take one of our Power Forwards and have him play center. Yes Ruutu can play center but he is best on the wing.

 

With Ruu on wing Dwyer can move back to third line. Dwyer-Nash- Ruu or new wing would be a formidable third line. 

The way Ruu started to play with Jordan though, I really really really hope he's on the second line. 4+ mill with a full NMC for a third line winger? Man.. I'd assume Nich if that's who we get would start off on the third line with probably Skinner and Dwyer, and Ruu on the second with Jordan and someone else. I really would rather we sign a reliable, veteran, experienced third line center and give Nash the fourth line, where we can plug in Checkers who have played with Nash and have pre-existing chemistry.

 

Edit: And then Skinner can stick with jordan and Ruutu. I'd have a powerplay setup with Semin on one point, but playing the halfboards, Nich on the other wing, Eric in center and Pitkanen or Faulk or someone (maybe a new guy) on the point.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Well maybe McBain would benefit from a change in scenery. Lord knows there are a lot of guys we've let go still having nice NHL careers many of them in the playoffs. And he arrived with so much very early success putting up points that if continued would have made him a super elite offensive dman. But there's the rub. He is a major defensive liability. His early plus rating predictably dropped by the end. And he was the most protected dman we have often playing behind our hugely plus top offensive line. So, at least he put up points?

 

Not so much. He had less points than Gleason and Harrison. PIts put up the same number of points in half the games.

 

And some of his mistakes.... :hits forehead:  ...doozies.

 

There is a reason the coaches protected him so much. There is a reason he was a healthy scratch at the start of at least two seasons. There's a reason he was shopped and is still here. I can only imagine how he'd fare in the playoffs. 

 

OK. I'm done. I'll try not to pile on. But change of scenery is the key phrase.

  

Just to clarify, my post about McBain on a ledge was in reference to all the "move McBain" suggestions (I have posted numerous myself). He needs to go IMO. But you make a good point about a change in scenery possibly being good for him. Hopefully we will find out :).

Bob Wage over at Canes Counrty wrote that JR in a Edmonton radio interview named his top six in the draft as Drouin, Jones, MacKinnon, Barkov, Nichushkin, and Lindholm.

 

Not really a surprise but no Nurse or Monahan mentioned

Looks like Coastal and I may have been wrong about JR definitely drafting Monahan over Lindholm. With Nichushkin's recent rise, I doubt we will ever know the real answer though.

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I don't think a logjam of capable third line centers exists.  At least if you want one that has proven to have some offensive upside.  Certainly Nash and Welsh have not.  Hopefully Rask could be that guy, but he may need another year of development. 

 

I am probably way ahead of myself. When I refer to logjam, I mean that we would have three 1st and 2nd line centers eventually. Certainly for a few nice years Barkov or Lidholm or Monahan would be VERY nice third line centers. But eventually that elite pick is going to want to at least be a second line center just like J. did. Now if one of the Staals or the pick could play wing...or just trade one of them in a few years. 

 

I do like Nash. I suspect he wants us to take Nich more than anyone.

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I am probably way ahead of myself. When I refer to logjam, I mean that we would have three 1st and 2nd line centers eventually. Certainly for a few nice years Barkov or Lidholm or Monahan would be VERY nice third line centers. But eventually that elite pick is going to want to at least be a second line center just like J. did. Now if one of the Staals or the pick could play wing...or just trade one of them in a few years. 

 

I do like Nash. I suspect he wants us to take Nich more than anyone.

 

Gotcha, that makes sense.  Oh, and I don't like dislike Nash, I just dislike Nash on the third line. 

 

Our logjam is guys who can't make the jump.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Looks like Coastal and I may have been wrong about JR definitely drafting Monahan over Lindholm. With Nichushkin's recent rise, I doubt we will ever know the real answer though.

 

I also posted before Nich was back in the picture I thought we would pick Monahan. It looks like our targets don't include him but a lot can change before the draft. 

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I listened to that interview.  JR never said that was his top-6, but mentioned that there were about 6 players that could come in (his list) and help a team next year.  If that list was his top-6, it's inferred,but he didn't say that was "the" list.

 

But yeah, LIndholm would be a great pick as well, and may be ahead of Monahan if that were the choices.

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Gotcha, that makes sense. Oh, and I don't like dislike Nash, I just dislike Nash on the third line.

Our logjam is guys who can't make the jump.

Yes, that is a logjam. Really a disappointing one to this point. I tend to lump guys together which is a bit unfair to the the younger guys where even a year can make difference.

I tend to think of Dalpe, Nash, Bowman, and Boychuck and Tlusty as a group. But in fact there is a spread there.

Tlusty drafted 2006

Bowman and Nash 2007

Dalpe, Boychuk 2008

Rask 2011 (Does point out how much younger he is to be playing well and makes him in a way the most promising of our "in the system" forwards).

I guess I thinking that Dalpe at least should get a kind of last shot this year. Technically so should Boychuk, but appart from injuries it is just hard not to think he's had his chances. He'd almost have to just blow it out and put up monster AHL numbers I think.

Bowman has become functional, but has never found a scoring touch. Kind of like Dwyer, but not as good at the little things. Not if it's time to give up on him, but I don't favor giving him more top 9 time. Nash has looked good. I guess we can keep him on the 4th line if Brent isn't there.

On the third, I'd favor our new elite forward, a prospect: Dalpe or Nash maybe, and one Bickell type guy. We paid 1.3 to LaRose, why not overpay a guy like Bickell? At least a guy like that. Or dare I say Cooke? Someone that plays hard and with an edge but also has some game.

Kind of rambling here, but if we did get one of the centers could go:

Dalpe/Barkov/Bickell (I know, I know, but I wanted to put a name there).

Edited by remkin

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Gotcha, that makes sense.  Oh, and I don't like dislike Nash, I just dislike Nash on the third line. 

 

Our logjam is guys who can't make the jump.

 

I think it will be interesting to see how Nash comes into camp next year...he needs to get stronger, certainly; but he has a lot of skill.. Welsh is signed with the big team next year, Brent is a UFA is Nash an RFA this year?  It makes the draft very interesting...if Barkov is there at 5, then there is room to maybe let Nash and Brent go; if not, I'd think we qualify Nash and let Brent go...I also think that is a trigger for us to sign MAB for a year as the PP was much better with him or Brent QBing and we will need one of those two so that Murphy can have 40%-50% of the season to get his feet wet in the AHL. 

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Maybe I'm blind but I'm really not seeing this skill-set from Riley Nash. 4 goals in 37 NHL games just doesn't translate to skill for me.  He could be a decent 4th line center, but outside of that, I just don't see the upside.

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Maybe I'm blind but I'm really not seeing this skill-set from Riley Nash. 4 goals in 37 NHL games just doesn't translate to skill for me.  He could be a decent 4th line center, but outside of that, I just don't see the upside.

In his first full season with the Canes, Brandon Sutter had 1 goal and 5 assists in 50 games, year 2 that went to 21G and 19A.

 

Nash, like Sutter needs to add some size but he his all around game is very solid...36 hits, 10, blocked shots and a very respectable 44% in FO% for his first year up (Sutter won 38.6% in his first 50 games).  Yes, he is older and took the college route but, dang, if you get the chance to play hockey and graduate from Cornell University, you take it. 

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Maybe I'm blind but I'm really not seeing this skill-set from Riley Nash. 4 goals in 37 NHL games just doesn't translate to skill for me.  He could be a decent 4th line center, but outside of that, I just don't see the upside.

 

I fully agree that he has not proven it yet. But Nash is more of a playmaker so assists or total points are better indicators than goals.

 

This year, the first he really got any serious games he averaged .28 PPG. This is not world beating, though Bowman averaged .13 ppg last year and has way more than twice as many NHL games under his belt. If I'm not seeing it on a guy it's Bowman. Yes, nice slick wrister...but that's it and it doesn't actually go in much.

 

Further a guy who is one year older than Nash got 58 games his first year up and put up .27 pgg.  Then, .28, .30, and after all of that in his first serious season with the Hurricanes put up .21 ppg over 57 games having already logged over 90 NHL games.

 

That was Juri Tlusty.

 

It is so hard to judge what a guy is capable of before he breaks out and puts up the serious points, but watching Nash he just seems to have a skill set to me. He played long in college and never really lit up the AHL, but I think he has kept elevating his game to the level of competition. If he can go one more notch up he can be a good NHL third line center in my opinion. But I have definitely been wrong before. 

Edited by remkin

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Well I learned that Tony attended the Kirk Muller school of being interviewed: keep peaking into the camera.

 

And, there are 10-12 players that could go in the top 5. In general I'm thinking, "yah, right". But then they did take Skinner way earlier than people thought, but then I think, yah right. 

Edited by remkin

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That's why I think Nash wants us to take Nich. 

 

I am guessing if we take Barkov or Lidholm that Nash drops to the 4th line. But then what of Welsh? 

 

I guess Nash and Welsh fight it out. 

 

Pick Nich.

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Bickell scores right after i see  his name mentioned,  can we fit him in with the salary cap restrictions and all??  Talk  about a bruiser and a scorer!

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