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POLL: And with the 5th pick in the 2013 NHL Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes pick.....

Canes First Round Pick?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Canes do with thier first round pick?

    • Pick Sean Monohan, C
      3
    • Pick Aleksander Barkov, C (if available)
      10
    • Pick Valerie Nichushkin, RW (if available)
      12
    • Pick Darnell Nurse, D
      1
    • Pick Rasmus Ristolainen, D
      0
    • Trade Down out of 5th pick, ex: get 8th and 16th overall)
      8
    • Trade Up, get an elite top-3 pick (won't come cheap)
      0


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Six new/recent mock drafts on dcprosportsreport site (thanks again to whoever posted it originally).

All six have the order:

1. Jones

2. MacKinnon

3. Drouin

4. Barkov

Then four have us taking Nichushkin, one has us taking Nurse, and one has us taking Monahan.

Edited by Kyrule

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Six new/recent mock drafts on dcprosportsreport site (thanks again to whoever posted it originally).

 

 

Thank you for thanking me.

 

The top 4 are so cemented in mock drafts that the only variable is the odd change in order, but mostly it is just exactly as you have it listed in that exact order. 

 

But most agree w/ Nich clearly wanting to go NHL from day one, he moves into the top 5. Some scouts list him as number ONE overall talent. I just don't see how we pass on him if he is there, or any of the other top 4 if he is not. The only thing would be trading down.  Kind of expected Nich to move up solidifying the top 5 now that the KHL factor is out. 

 

What I find interesting about those latest 6 mocks is that Monahan is very solidly coming in ahead of Lidholm. 5/6 have Mohahan at #6 or better, and 5/6 have Monahan above Lidholm. 

 

One line from a mock draft just had me rethinking Nurse. It was about Colorado, and not buying the MacKinnon first noise. But the line was that Colorado will realize that elite cup contenders need a super shut down dman. How do we get that? 

 

Anyway, JR clearly does not want to wait for a Dman to develop, so I see us taking Nich if there or Barkov/Druoin if they are somehow the ones left. The only way I see us doing something else is a trade down, which would be interesting, but unlikely.

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Rem, i too thank you as well as all others who keep us up on draft happens. Just wanted to give a few thoughts and ask for your ideas on them.

 

1st, I am strongly in the camp to draft Nich if he is available at the 5th spot. As to the current order, this likely is predicated on the order of the teams as defined by their post-lottery sequence. With all the talk of teams attempting to move up, most recent of which are the Canucks, how might this affect this order?

 

2nd, with respect to our moving down in the draft, our glaring need is to acquire a top 4 Dman. how likely is any team to give up this type of asset to move into the top 5, even for a quality pick?

 

3rd, I read where JR may be in conversation with Buffalo to swap the 2 picks. I certainly hope this not to be the case. :thumbsup:

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Well while I am interested in the draft and this one is deep and we're picking high, which makes me even more interested in it, and while I have been following our drafting since about 2007, I am far from an expert. 

 

I too wonder what type of proven NHL Dman could be found by giving up our place and moving down. The best I could find on that was the site that did a great job of creating a point system based on historical exchanges of draft picks. But the points were all measured in other draft picks, not actual existing players. 

 

Here is that link again: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/4/25/4262594/nhl-draft-pick-value-trading-up

 

Using the math on that site, the math would be perfect for us to drop to #8 with the price being their second rounder at #38. In this draft? Two early second round picks would be very tempting indeed. Buffalo oddly sits at #8. While we cannot get Nich at 10, we could get a VERY nice player. The last 6 mocks have Nurse, Ristoleinen, Lidholm, Zadoraov, Monahan as possibilities. A couple would be gone but we'd be able to pick from at least 3 of those guys.

 

If we dropped to 10 then a team would need to pony up more than their second rounder. Second and third would still be shy. Would the #10 team give up a solid D man to move up? I don't think so, but maybe. 

 

And so much of it depends on unpredictable factors: is the team in the slot we'd be willing to drop to in love with a guy, say Nich? Does that team feel like it is one piece away? "If we just had a guy like Nichushkin". Does that GM feel (like I think ours does) that he needs results next year or can he look 2-3 years down the line? What piece does that team have that we might want? Would they part with it to move up? Where do our scouts draw the line? "So long as we get one of these guys". Then there is need. We need defense. But then there is the GM's style. JR will pick Dmen in the first (JJ, Murphy) but his bias is strong against it especially after the JJ debacle. 

 

So to pick a Dman JR needs to feel that they have fallen too far (Murphy). The only way that happens at 5 is the impossibility of Jones still being there. Thus to draft for need we would almost have to trade down. 

 

Looking at the scouting reports and mock drafts, a team can get a really solid, eventual top pair dman at #10 for sure, probably down to #12, (but that would be riskier).

 

What I have not figured out is the "points" for a proven player. After all, draft picks are unproven. So if you have a very solid top 4 dman, isn't that what you're trying to draft in the first place? I think if you a flush with solid dmen or like your D prospects about to come up, you might, but otherwise, probably not.

 

My guess is that to land a youngish solid physical top 4 w/ reasonable top 2 upside guy we'd have to drop pretty far, or sweeten the pot to a team like Buffalo. I have wondered if adding in our second rounder, plus a prospect, plus our #5 for their #8 and a good NHL dman.  

 

Who does Buffalo have back there that would be worth that?

 

In the end trading down seems great because you can take advantage of the desperation or love fest of another GM. But I am convinced that JR's plan is to draft at 5 unless someone offers him something too good to pass up. Nich is the kind of guy that a GM might just do that for so it is possible, but all of the pieces have to fall just right, and it is aways safer to just make your pick. If you make a trade you have stepped out. If it does not work, you are blamed.

 

So, despite all of that,  my guess is we just use the pick. 

 

My guess; we pick whoever is left in the top 5. Probably Nich or Barkov.

My move (if it were up to me): pick whoever is left in the top 5. Probably Nich or Barkov.

Their talent is just too elite. And this is the way to get that kind of talent: draft near the top.

 

#35 is a real chance to find a very nice dman this year. Or more offense to load up for a trade to get that dman.

 

But all of that still leaves our gaping need for a Dman next year. Not quite sure how we figure that out.

 

But what do I know? I never saw the Skinner pick coming.

Edited by remkin

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Thank you for thanking me.

 

The top 4 are so cemented in mock drafts that the only variable is the odd change in order, but mostly it is just exactly as you have it listed in that exact order. 

 

But most agree w/ Nich clearly wanting to go NHL from day one, he moves into the top 5. Some scouts list him as number ONE overall talent. I just don't see how we pass on him if he is there, or any of the other top 4 if he is not. The only thing would be trading down.  Kind of expected Nich to move up solidifying the top 5 now that the KHL factor is out.

 

As the saying goes, from your lips...

 

I'm tired of reading about other teams draft steals (Lundquist, Z-Berg, Datysuk etc), it's time we got one (unless you count Ward).

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There's a 14 minute video with our director of scouting. Anyone else concerned he claims there's four southeastern teams in the top five? Nashville isn't a southeast team  :hits forehead: Then he goes on to say when there's ten or twelve players in the top twelve.. it's important to draft based on your needs. What?  That's is completely contradictory to what JR said, which was take the best player available.

 

I mean you can deduce what he means, when there's ten or twelve players in a draft that are good enough to potentially make immediate impacts or most certainly will have successful NHL careers you have options that you wouldn't in a regular draft. But if you're going to do an interview and post it on the website, make sure you word things better. Don't say the opposite of what the General Manager has stated publicly. If you're talking about just the first pick or about all the picks in general, let us know. Made our scouting staff seem outdated and not up to date which could easily be fixed just by wording things better.

 

Maybe it's just me.

 

I always thought our scouting could be better, but after getting a good look at Andy MacDonald I feel even worse.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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I'm over it.  I thought he did an okay job for a guy whose job isn't getting in front of a camera. 

 

All he was saying was that the top 10-12 players are closer on many scouts lists than you see in the media and at that point you separate guys that are close based on team need.  Sounds reasonable to me.

 

I actually gleaned some good info from that interview.  I particularly liked Chantel's question about what it's like to be a pro scout.  Sounds like a pretty tough job.

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regardless of the player(s) the Canes select what is being done to see they will sign with the Canes and become a wasted pick?

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Let the Games Begin............

 

Spector's Hockey: The Ottawa Senators have dealt the rights to pending UFA defenseman Sergei Gonchar to the Dallas Stars in exchange for a conditional sixth round pick in this year’s entry draft.

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Hopefully Gonchar wasn't JR's big answer. He said mostly joking.

I always wonder about these kinds of deals. So am I correct in saying that they give up an almost meaningless sixth round pick just to get the inside track on trying to convince Gonchar to sign with them? Is it conditional on if Gonchar signs? I mean the man can still become a UFA right? :letssee:

Edited by remkin

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Hopefully Gonchar wasn't JR's big answer. He said mostly joking.

I always wonder about these kinds of deals. So am I correct in saying that they give up an almost meaningless sixth round pick just to get the inside track on trying to convince Gonchar to sign with them? Is it conditional on if Gonchar signs? I mean the man can still become a UFA right? :letssee:

 

It is according to NHL.com- In the event Dallas signs Gonchar to a contract for the 2013-14 season prior to the start of the draft in Newark, N.J., on June 30, Dallas will transfer its sixth-round selection to Ottawa.

 

He still is an FA and is said to have a KHL offer. Apparently the Sens wanted to resign him but not at his asking price. I don't think we were looking at Gonchar. But it is interesting to me that a deal has already been made.

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and honestly I don't see how we could pass up Nich. I still have doubts about what might be his conditions to sign but his talent is probable worth that risk. 

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I feel like some of us are looking for reasons to worry about the draft when there aren't really any. Nichushkin is signing wherever he gets drafted. He's been pretty clear and adamant that he wants to not only play in the NHL next year, but be elite from the get-go. So worrying if he'll sign with us or not is like worrying if PK decides to move the franchise before next season.

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I feel like some of us are looking for reasons to worry about the draft when there aren't really any. Nichushkin is signing wherever he gets drafted. He's been pretty clear and adamant that he wants to not only play in the NHL next year, but be elite from the get-go. So worrying if he'll sign with us or not is like worrying if PK decides to move the franchise before next season.

 

Its in my nature to worry. With Nich the worry isn't if he will sign it is how much it will cost and what happens if he is unhappy. When a player puts demands on a team before he has proven himself it can lead to some bad locker room feelings. If he lives up to all the expectations  no problem..if not watch out. This kid likes things his way IMO

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Just about everything I see out there now has us taking Nichuskin.

I just cannot see any way we pass on this kid if he's there at #5.  Put this size and speed on the 2d line with Ruutu or Skinner and holy cow.  In a year or 2 Darnell Nurse might be a very good D-Man in the NHL this kid might be just about unstoppable. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1T7Gx3ooBk

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Its in my nature to worry. With Nich the worry isn't if he will sign it is how much it will cost and what happens if he is unhappy. When a player puts demands on a team before he has proven himself it can lead to some bad locker room feelings. If he lives up to all the expectations  no problem..if not watch out. This kid likes things his way IMO

I know that feeling. But in my opinion, Nichushkin has proven himself, playing in the KHL among men, winning the Cherpanov Award, and producing the way he did in the postseason, helping his team to the finals. He was sent to some national championship and wasn't too happy, but the team wasn't the same without him and lost to Dynamo. He has some serious impact in games. And the best part is he's so young and has such a high ceiling. So even if he falters a little in the beginning, he ends up coming up big later on. And having Semin in the locker room doesn't hurt either. I don't think JR would have reason to send him down, and if the team still fails to make the postseason he'll probably just train harder. He wants to be the guy on the team that makes the difference, and he has the ability to. There will be some adjusting, but that doesn't mean all of the tools he possesses just disappear with him. 

Just my opinion :o

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I know that feeling. But in my opinion, Nichushkin has proven himself, playing in the KHL among men, winning the Cherpanov Award, and producing the way he did in the postseason, helping his team to the finals. He was sent to some national championship and wasn't too happy, but the team wasn't the same without him and lost to Dynamo. He has some serious impact in games. And the best part is he's so young and has such a high ceiling. So even if he falters a little in the beginning, he ends up coming up big later on. And having Semin in the locker room doesn't hurt either. I don't think JR would have reason to send him down, and if the team still fails to make the postseason he'll probably just train harder. He wants to be the guy on the team that makes the difference, and he has the ability to. There will be some adjusting, but that doesn't mean all of the tools he possesses just disappear with him. 

Just my opinion :o

 

Its a very valid opinion. There is no doubt in my mind this kid has the talent.  My point as you pointed out when he was sent to that national championship he wasn't happy, when he was traded he wasn't happy, he will come to N. America but only skate in the NHL etc. etc. etc. For me that raises flags. Yet if we do draft him I will be excited to see him play.

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Its a very valid opinion. There is no doubt in my mind this kid has the talent.  My point as you pointed out when he was sent to that national championship he wasn't happy, when he was traded he wasn't happy, he will come to N. America but only skate in the NHL etc. etc. etc. For me that raises flags. Yet if we do draft him I will be excited to see him play.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't think of the trade as much though, because he had an agreement to play only in Traktor, so it was a blindside. And he talked things out with Dynamo maturely instead of playing disgruntled. He also let go 2 million per for two more years to play in the NHL, where he can't make that much for three years. Of course, he'd get some nice bonuses should he reach the bonus requirements of the NHL for rookies, and a signing bonus, but that's not a given as the money would be in Russia.

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The problem with drafting a defenseman at number 5 is that they most likely won't be a plug and play player. It will take them a couple of years to become NHL ready. If we are seriously considering drafting a defenseman I believe we should trade back and see if we can grab Pulock, Ristolainen or Zadarov with a later pick. Because honestly is Nurse really worth a 5th overall pick? I would like him, but Im just assuming he won't be there with a later top 15 choice.

 

However if we do keep that 5th choice it has to be Barkov or Nich...

 

Also a good 2nd round talent on my board is another Kitchener Ranger... Justin Bailey. The kid started out weak after moving from the states but adjusted well having an unbelievable later half of the year. Could be a good 3rd line centre of the future.

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I just cannot see any way we pass on this kid if he's there at #5.  Put this size and speed on the 2d line with Ruutu or Skinner and holy cow.  In a year or 2 Darnell Nurse might be a very good D-Man in the NHL this kid might be just about unstoppable. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1T7Gx3ooBk

Thanks for the clips. Some powerful wrists/arms for sure.

He looks almost as impressive as Skinner. So, if we don't trade up and get Jones (the one we really need), I'll be happy with him.

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My gut is telling me that the top 5 may not be carved in stone.  It seems ever more likely that Nich could go anywhere from 2 to 5 and Barkov could very well jump up a spot or two.  If Drouin does manage to drop to 5, I'd love to have him even if he is a bit small (5'11" and 175).

 

 As it stands, I'd rather have Nichushkin because once he fills out, he could be a Forsbergian beast. 

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Thanks for the clips. Some powerful wrists/arms for sure.

He looks almost as impressive as Skinner. So, if we don't trade up and get Jones (the one we really need), I'll be happy with him.

 

I see a lot of E. Cole in his game (true power forward) but the pass he makes about 1:45 into the video really shows great hands, great balance and insane vision.  He's gonna be a steal at 5 if there. 

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