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Greg-N-Ral

POLL: And with the 5th pick in the 2013 NHL Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes pick.....

Canes First Round Pick?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Canes do with thier first round pick?

    • Pick Sean Monohan, C
      3
    • Pick Aleksander Barkov, C (if available)
      10
    • Pick Valerie Nichushkin, RW (if available)
      12
    • Pick Darnell Nurse, D
      1
    • Pick Rasmus Ristolainen, D
      0
    • Trade Down out of 5th pick, ex: get 8th and 16th overall)
      8
    • Trade Up, get an elite top-3 pick (won't come cheap)
      0


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Interesting. This guy claims to be quoting Rutherford unofficially though "trade talks". Also mentions that it could be gamesmanship. 

 

One of his other tweeters thinks that Nashville will take Nich. To me we'd take Barkov if that happened.

 

The idea that Russians can't be grouped together....certainly a pretty gross generalization. Just because Semin-Ovie didn't really work, doesn't mean Semin and the kid can't work.

 

Does make me think JR is really open to trading down though, even if he's just trying to get some interest by saying, "hey, I don't really want to take Nich, call me".

Edited by remkin

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Gare Joyce, Sportsnet, says JR is not going to take Nich. I saw this on My NHL Trade Rumors.com discussing the Flames attempt(s) at moving up in the draft. He makes more points in the comments section of the article, like JR doesn't want a group of Russians (ie: more than one!).

 

"Sean Monahan would be the Flames fallback with the 6th selection. Could look to Nashville at No. 4 to get Aleksander Barkov. The Flames don’t have ’that’ player of established value to make the deal. The Hurricanes could be the wildcard as they are not taking Valeri Nichushkin. They might take Barkov if he’s there. They are looking for immediate help."

 

Thought/hoped JR lost his prejudices last year...maybe not.

 

We might trade out of the 5 spot, but if we are there, I think JR will take whoever is left out of the standard top 5. 

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Reading Gare's tweet's he says JR has said in trade talks that "Russians do better when not in cliques". But if you're trying to trade the #5 pick then why would you tell everyone you don't want Nich. Doesn't that lower the trade value you'd receive. Maybe he thinks there'll be a bidding war for Nich regardless? I don't know what to make of this news.

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If I had to guess, JR is trying to stir the pot to regenerate discussion. 

 

He would be basically saying "Dang, this Nich is an incredible talent, but not sure he works for us. Whatever shall I do?"

 

IF, in point of fact JR is actually more than good with taking Nich, then it will not affect the price. He'll generate interest with these comments, like chumming the waters, but then when the negotiating starts he can still play hardball, since in the end he is really fine with taking him. 

 

This is just a patented Remkin flat out guess.

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Reading Gare's tweet's he says JR has said in trade talks that "Russians do better when not in cliques". But if you're trying to trade the #5 pick then why would you tell everyone you don't want Nich. Doesn't that lower the trade value you'd receive. Maybe he thinks there'll be a bidding war for Nich regardless? I don't know what to make of this news.

 

 

I think it sounds like a guess.  JR is not one for gamesmanship.  I have been picking up on little things here and their that we might have our eye on Lindholm.  It wouldn't be surprising if we already have a trade worked out based on who is still on the board at 5.

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Here is a link stating that the Oilers have been in talk with JR about moving up:

 

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/6/17/4437676/nhl-draft-2013-carolina-hurricanes-edmonton-oilers

 

"With this in mind, Carolina has been solicited by teams looking to trade up in the draft. According to Friedman, the Edmonton Oilers have held discussions with the Hurricanes about the pick. Oilers president Kevin Lowe previously stated that the team is willing to leverage the No. 7 overall selection to help improve the team. The final decision on whether they choose to do so will be left to general manager Craig MacTavish.

In terms of Carolina's interest in trading the No. 5 pick, Friedman states that the club would be willing to do so for the right deal. Of course, that's a relative phrase. The Hurricanes' valuation of the No. 5 pick might not align with the valuation from a rival club. It remains unclear what the Hurricanes are looking for in return."

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I think the JR feelings on not drafting Nich seem to be more speculation or conversation then fact based. I suppose its possible that someone JR was talking to leaked the info but really what do we have to gain by saying something like that. Maybe we would be trying to sour some other teams on Nich so he can be available at 5 but thats a stretch.

 

What is being said about Nich are realistic concerns any GM would have to deal with. But those are no secret. Meanwhile we do seem to be the focus of chat for teams wanting to trade up into the top 5. Saw speculation a D-man and first round pick might entice us to trade down.

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What is being said about Nich are realistic concerns any GM would have to deal with. But those are no secret. Meanwhile we do seem to be the focus of chat for teams wanting to trade up into the top 5. Saw speculation a D-man and first round pick might entice us to trade down.

 

This is what would make the most sense. It would be sooooo nice to add a superstar can't miss prospect like Nich or Barkov, but imagine getting a solid, immediate fix on defense AND a Nurse or Lidholm or Monahan or Zadorov or Ristolenin. These guys are all going to be very good NHL players.

 

It's not like we'd be getting a chump later in this deepest of drafts.

Edited by remkin

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Yes, but if there is a D-Man on that team we want, Smid is the guy. 

Agreed. I was framing my answer more in response to the original question, which asked about a potential trade with Edmonton.

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Smid and trading down to the 7 spot for a shot at Monahan would be pretty doggone tempting.  I would think Darnell Nurse is on the top of the list for them, certainly they have enough forwards at this point.  4th Peroid said the Oil was shopping Hemsky and Horcoff a week or so ago; maybe there is a crazy blockbuster to be had somewhere in there. 

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Just to keep rolling things around...

 

The profile on Barkov makes him look real good. 

 

I can imagine rolling 3 fully dangerous lines.

 

Semin-E-Tlusty

Ruutu-J- XXXX

Skinner-Barkov-YYYY

 

XXXX or YYYY could be Dwyer and the other could be a new pick up.

 

We'd eventually have too many elite centers but if we rolled those lines fairly evenly the third line guys might not mind. After all, which of those two bottom lines is really the third line? This would be Muller's much wanted scoring third line. 

 

Of course we can get there w/ Nich and Skinner at center too.

 

Still leaves the defensive issues...

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I just don't think Skinner is moving off J's line. I really think our top two lines are set unless we make a blockbuster trade. I don't see that happening either. I think we will shop for a third line center or wing. Pencil Dwyer in on the third line and then it's anybodies guess. Maybe a draft player. Same with the fourth line. We will probable promote a Chex. Maybe Sutter if we resign him.

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I just don't think Skinner is moving off J's line. I really think our top two lines are set unless we make a blockbuster trade. I don't see that happening either. I think we will shop for a third line center or wing. Pencil Dwyer in on the third line and then it's anybodies guess. Maybe a draft player. Same with the fourth line. We will probable promote a Chex. Maybe Sutter if we resign him.

 

So if we pick Nich or Barkov how do you see the top 9? 

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If we don't move Skinner off of the second line, particularly given how that line is used, somebody behind the bench needs their head examined.  Skinner needs a play-making center if he's going to play wing and I don't think J. Staal fits that bill.

 

Barkov, Lindholm, or Monahan could all be the guy who fills that hole and role on the third line.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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With Ruutu back on second line and doing some of the heavy lifting I think J will be able to use his speed and excitement he brought with the Pens. I think the combination of Skinner-J-Ruu will allow both J and Skinner to get their game back.

 

I don't see us taking Nich at 5th. If we did I think we would be forced to move Skinner to 3rd line or trade him.

 

If we take Barkov it would be Dwyer- Barkov - New wing

 

If we take Lindholm he skates with Dwyer at center or wing. Open position would need to be filled by an acquisition

 

If we take Monahan I see Dwyer-Monahan - New wing. I think with Monahan we would be looking at more of a traditional third line.

 

I'm not convinced any except Nich are NHL ready but if they are that is how I see it possible looking.

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Here's a pretty good read from CBC by Elliotte Friedman.  He discusses the Canes draft situation in pretty good detail.  And according to JR, there may be some guys who he once saw as untouchable who could now be available if the right deal comes along.

 

"It is no secret that the Hurricanes were disappointed by their lockout-shortened season. They expected to be better than 19-25-4. There will be a very good player available in the No. 5 spot, but would a Top 4 defenceman with experience and term remaining be better for Carolina? If you have one and a first-round pick, there is a belief you can get to that spot. Edmonton, selecting seventh overall, had discussions with the Hurricanes, but it sounds like those talks cooled.

 

Things can -- and probably will -- change over the next couple of weeks, but if you're outside the Top 5, Carolina is your most realistic target for now."

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/06/price-is-steep-to-improve-position-in-nhl-draft.html

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Interesting article. I found a couple of other points in there interesting:

"History shows the best offers always come right before your pick."

So GM's in the catbird seat will need a major offer to make a move earlier.

And the proof is:

"Flames general manager Jay Feaster recently made a bold move, offering his three first-round draft picks (sixth, 22nd, 28th) to Colorado for the No. 1 overall selection. The Avalanche said no. And the rebuff came fast."

In this draft getting 3 picks in the first round...

But using the historical data and the Remkin patented stolen from broadstreat hockey point system:
Going from 6 to 1 should cost you 54 points beyond the #6 pick. And they offered about 36 points. Man that #1 pick is valuable.

I just wonder how far we'd have to drop to get a proven top 4 dman we want....I am thinking that unless we sweeten the pot we'd have to drop farther than we want to. So unless we can work out a multi player trade or someone overpays....

If JR doesn't want Nich and Barkov goes at #4, he'd be better trading down and picking up another team's early second rounder.

Would the Flames give up #28 to move up one spot? If we could pick 6, 28 and 35 that would be worth it. It would be a big overpay by them (it is only supposed to be 3 pts to move from 6 to 5 and their #28 is worth 15.5 points), but maybe having all those picks and an eye on Nich? This year is not a typical year. 

It is interesting.

Edited by remkin

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The thing is that dropping from #5 to #8, at least historically, is 8.6 points. If we up it to 10 points, we're at an early second round pick. While this is a special draft, a proven top 4 defender just has to be worth more than a second round pick. So if we really want to stay in the top 8, then straight up we'd get their second rounder as the price. 

 

But maybe if we sweeten the pot. Our second rounder, McBain, and the #5, for a good dman and their #8 type of thing....

 

Not sure why I think anyone want McBain, but if they did it would be a great deal.

 

Point is to get a proven player (that we'd really want) dropping 3 spots is unlikely to be enough by itself. Then again, if someone falls in love...

Edited by remkin

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We'll I finally voted.  It's looking more and more like we'll get Nichushkin or Alex  Barkov.

But I did add another option to the poll... Canes trade down (out of 5th pick).

Seems like more than 2% chance that will happen, IMO.



 

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Smid and trading down to the 7 spot for a shot at Monahan would be pretty doggone tempting.  I would think Darnell Nurse is on the top of the list for them, certainly they have enough forwards at this point.  4th Peroid said the Oil was shopping Hemsky and Horcoff a week or so ago; maybe there is a crazy blockbuster to be had somewhere in there. 

OK, now you are talking about the Oilers trading Smid. Why would the Oilers trade Smid (who they need) to take Nurse? You're trading your best defensive defenseman to draft a potentially good defensive defenseman in a few years. They could probably stay at #7 and get Nurse.

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I'm not convinced any except Nich are NHL ready but if they are that is how I see it possible looking.

Barkov is largely seen as the most NHL ready player in the draft, he has already been very successful against men at age 17. Lindholm played well against men in Sweden, but may need another year....but maybe not. Lindholm's game centers around skating, smarts, and competitive nature. His offense may take a bit to develop, but he has been a good playmaker. At worst he should be a good defensive forward to start. Actually, here is recent quote from Rotoworld.

"Lindholm had a great season in the top Swedish Men's league, competing against players 10 years his senior; not only did he produce offensively but he did not back down from physical confrontations. Lindholm saw time as a top-six forward and rewarded his coach's faith in him with 11 goals and 30 points in 48 games. He is NHL ready."

It's nice to be in the driver's seat for a change.

Only if you trust the driver...

.

Edited by Kyrule

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Barkov is largely seen as the most NHL ready player in the draft, he has already been very successful against men at age 17. Lindholm played well against men in Sweden, but may need another year....but maybe not. Lindholm's game centers around skating, smarts, and competitive nature. His offense may take a bit to develop, but he has been a good playmaker. At worst he should be a good defensive forward to start. Actually, here is recent quote from Rotoworld.

"Lindholm had a great season in the top Swedish Men's league, competing against players 10 years his senior; not only did he produce offensively but he did not back down from physical confrontations. Lindholm saw time as a top-six forward and rewarded his coach's faith in him with 11 goals and 30 points in 48 games. He is NHL ready."

When you read the scouting stuff it looks like the top 8 could walk in and claim a spot next year. I'm always cautious until I see them on NHL ice but I certainly won't argue with the assessment. It would be nice on PKs wallet if it works out that way.

.

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Yeah, when you read the scouting stuff it sounds like everyone is going to come in and dominate :). Still, in the case of Barkov, and to a lesser extent Lindholm, their success against men in high end leagues is definitely a positive indicator. My only concern with Lindholm is that his drive and competitiveness will result in him coming to the NHL, trying to impose himself physically/not backing down, and he gets rag-dolled a bit because he is still young and not that big. That is my only concern with him though. Definitely better that than having a guy who is sheepish/won't engage though. He did have some impressive results at the combine though, I think he is a strong kid.

You also made a point I wanted to make, what people don't often consider when proposing trades and such is the financial benefit of playing a good young player. You get a good player for three years at a good price. That is why early on, forwards usually give you much more bang for your buck. If we trade down, that means a player is likely coming our way, along with his salary.

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