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Greg-N-Ral

POLL: And with the 5th pick in the 2013 NHL Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes pick.....

Canes First Round Pick?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Canes do with thier first round pick?

    • Pick Sean Monohan, C
      3
    • Pick Aleksander Barkov, C (if available)
      10
    • Pick Valerie Nichushkin, RW (if available)
      12
    • Pick Darnell Nurse, D
      1
    • Pick Rasmus Ristolainen, D
      0
    • Trade Down out of 5th pick, ex: get 8th and 16th overall)
      8
    • Trade Up, get an elite top-3 pick (won't come cheap)
      0


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We'll I finally voted.  It's looking more and more like we'll get Nichushkin or Alex  Barkov.

But I did add another option to the poll... Canes trade down (out of 5th pick).

Seems like more than 2% chance that will happen, IMO.

 

 

As the starter of the poll, but with it being your thread, I can't really change the poll.

 

I think that this poll has kind of run it's course. People were voting before it became clear that Nich is NHL bound and before the alleged idea that JR doesn't want to put two Russians together.

 

Anyway, at some point it might be interesting to clear the data and start a new poll, which I'd be fine with.

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Just to add a touch (not much) to the Friedman article. SB says that JR has received "offers" (plural) for the 5th pick.

 

They also opine that while the top 4 all say they'll trade down, they are really looking for pie in the sky deals, while the Canes are the most serious about actually moving down. With the top 5 being the assumed "super elite" picks, and the top 4 insisting on unrealistic deals, the Canes should get a bunch of offers.

 

I would guess that JR will wait until near or on draft day unless the offer is too good to be true. I also wonder about an "if-then" deal where a team agrees to a deal like: "if Nich is the guy left we'll do this trade" "if Barokov or Drouin are left we pick them".

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OK, now you are talking about the Oilers trading Smid. Why would the Oilers trade Smid (who they need) to take Nurse? You're trading your best defensive defenseman to draft a potentially good defensive defenseman in a few years. They could probably stay at #7 and get Nurse.

 

The Oil have a number of young D-Men who could be ready to play full-time for the big team next year (Shultz, Belov and Klefbom).  They could move one or two of those guys up and grab Nurse to refill the coffers.  On the other side of the coin, they may also need to add a bit of scoring if Horcoff and Hemsky are really not coming back...I could certainly imagine them having a TON of interest in Barkov if Nich somehow makes it into the top 4. 

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You also made a point I wanted to make, what people don't often consider when proposing trades and such is the financial benefit of playing a good young player. You get a good player for three years at a good price. That is why early on, forwards usually give you much more bang for your buck. If we trade down, that means a player is likely coming our way, along with his salary.

 

This is very true. If we stay with our number 5 pick we might get a player that can step in for a reasonable price. Since it is a stated goal to add to our 3rd and 4th line it isn't unrealistic to think that any of the draft picks we might land at number 5 could help accomplish that goal. But it is also a stated goal to add to our top 2 D pair and to add experience to our D pairings so a trade down could accomplish that.. I suspect we are looking for a veteran in the 3-4 million range. More 3 then 4 if history is an indicator. Of course I'm only guessing.

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Ok coastal your wearing me down.  ;)   If we grab Barkov or Nich everyone seems to think they hit our 2nd line. I guess that would send Skinner to the 3rd line or packing. I'm still not convinced but you are making me 2nd guess myself.

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Putting Skinner or our draft pick (assuming we stay at #5 and take a forward) on a third line should not be considered some kind of demotion.  I think Muller wants to spread the minutes out across the second and third lines but he doesn't have the personnel to do that at this time.

 

For all intents and purposes, the J. Staal line was the checking line last year, and will likely see the other team's top line every night in Muller's system going forward.  Building a third line around Skinner and Barkov, for example, would likely get closer to Muller's third line with a scoring threat.  He's stated that's what he's looking for time and time again.

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I don't see Skinner on the third line as a demotion. My concern is that it will cut down his goal production even in Muller's system. I agree with you that he wants a scoring threat from his top three lines. I guess the first thing for us to do is get Barkov or Nich.

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I think behind the scenes, Jim really wants to draft a center for the 3rd line. It'll be easier to get a winger via free agency. If we can drop down a few spots, get a decent dmen and still be in position to draft a center, that would be perfect. I think it'll all depend on who's left at 5. If its drouin or barkov, we keep the pick.

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Just about everybody in the free world has the top 3 as elite players. NHL on XM they were talking about how nearly all of the top 10 in scoring are usually #1 or #2 overall type picks. Are Barkov and Nich in that category? I think Nich is. But what of Barkov? Is he THAT much better than Lidholm or Monahan? I really wonder what the Cane's scouts and JR think.

 

If they group them in the next tier, then a trade down could reap huge benefits. If they are all 5 considered picks that in a different year would be #1 or $2 overall, I still think you gotta take em. Personally if Nich is there I take him. Barokov....hmmm what kind of deal could I get and pick up Nurse or Lidholm or Monahan?

 

The other question I have is they say Barkov is under contract for next year. Is that unbreakable? Clearly JR wants someone on the ice next year out of this whole thing. Would he wait for Barkov? I think probably not.

Edited by remkin

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I like the idea of trading with Buffalo (picking up 8 and 16).

 

We could get Monahan at #8 and Morin at #16.  2 NHL-ready players filling 2 needs. 

 

 

Over the long run, statistically, its better to have the 8+16th overall picks than 5th (alone)...  about 1175 vs 900 value points. I won't go into all the historical math here, just to say, agree TF... if we could do that it would be going with the odds, not against them.

But, not so sure Buf would do it (go against the odds).

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The other question I have is they say Barkov is under contract for next year. Is that unbreakable? Clearly JR wants someone on the ice next year out of this whole thing. Would he wait for Barkov? I think probably not.

 

He's actually under contract until 2015 with SM-Liga Tappara, but that doesn't mean he can't come over next season.  It just means he's locked in with Tappara IF he plays in Europe.  There is an NHL transfer agreement.

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Just about everybody in the free world has the top 3 as elite players. NHL on XM they were talking about how nearly all of the top 10 in scoring are usually #1 or #2 overall type picks. Are Barkov and Nich in that category? I think Nich is. But what of Barkov? Is he THAT much better than Lidholm or Monahan? I really wonder what the Cane's scouts and JR think.

The other question I have is they say Barkov is under contract for next year. Is that unbreakable? Clearly JR wants someone on the ice next year out of this whole thing. Would he wait for Barkov? I think probably not.

Search YouTube and Barkov and you will find a radio show where Craig Button gushes over Barkov. You will also find some pretty insane shootout goals as Barkov has elite level hands. Look for "Forsberg" and "reverse Datsyuk" to give you an idea. He has size, strength, maturity (his celebrations consist of him raising his hand as opposed to the constant ice-sweeping of other young players), good vision as he is seen as a playmaker, good shot/ability to finish, etc.. He plays a two-way game yet was near the top of the FEL in scoring. He is used as a penalty killer and on the PP. All this at age 17.

To be honest I think he might be the best/safest forward in the draft based on scouting reports and what he has already proven. He has been ranked in the top few spots for a long time. The guy just doesn't seem to have a weakness. Some say his skating isn't special, but it must be good enough. The shoulder injury is a slight concern though, but I am sure teams are made fully aware of the future impact it may (or may not have).

What I really like about this guy is that his highlights consist of NHL style goals, not just fancy moves off the rush. Obviously I like Barkov, but the draft is always risky so who knows, he could end up a bust (as could anyone).

Edited by Kyrule

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Putting Skinner or our draft pick (assuming we stay at #5 and take a forward) on a third line should not be considered some kind of demotion.  I think Muller wants to spread the minutes out across the second and third lines but he doesn't have the personnel to do that at this time.

 

For all intents and purposes, the J. Staal line was the checking line last year, and will likely see the other team's top line every night in Muller's system going forward.  Building a third line around Skinner and Barkov, for example, would likely get closer to Muller's third line with a scoring threat.  He's stated that's what he's looking for time and time again.

I'm just impressed that you said "intents and purposes" instead of the oft incorrectly used "intensive purposes".

You're right about that 3rd line thing. It was an afterthought last season and has to be better if the Canes are going to do anything.

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Thanks Coastal.

 

Yes what I've seen on Barkov is quite sweet. And he has been ranked elite all along.

 

On the Buffalo speculation it would be a big overpay for them. It would come down to the value of the superstar. Cooler heads would definitely make that deal from our end in this deep of a draft.

 

Essentially similar to picking say #5, #10, and #20 in a typical draft when you add in our #35 pick.

 

On the scale I've been using, that is a 17.5 point overpayment by Buffalo. That is the point value of the #26 first round pick alone.

 

But what is a guy compared to Rick Nash and Malkin worth? Interesting.

Edited by remkin

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Avalanche say they will likely pass on Jones as top pick, will draft MacKinnon, Drouin, or Barkov if they stay at #1 (per Joe Sakic and NHL Draft site).

Also, 8 more mock drafts up on dcprosportsreport (thanks Remkin).

Five have us taking Nichushkin, two say Monahan, one says Nurse.

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this does change my mock draft a bit but not by much , so here it is 

 

1. mackinnon 

2. barkov

3. drouin 

4. jones

5. nichushkin

6. shinkaruk

7. monahan

8. nurse

9. lindhom

10. mantha 

 

thats who i see so far if things stay the way they do .  

 

im surprised in colorado but not that much 

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this does change my mock draft a bit but not by much , so here it is 

 

1. mackinnon 

2. barkov

3. drouin 

4. jones

5. nichushkin

6. shinkaruk

7. monahan

8. nurse

9. lindhom

10. mantha 

 

thats who i see so far if things stay the way they do .  

 

im surprised in colorado but not that much 

 

You are out on a limb w/ Jones falling that far, but if you're right we should really try to trade up.

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I even saw some speculation that Jones could fall to 5th if the Avs don't take him. I don't really buy it but wouldn't that be nice.

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I even saw some speculation that Jones could fall to 5th if the Avs don't take him. I don't really buy it but wouldn't that be nice.

 

 

If he fell to 5th, I would either trade down or pass him on to 6th.  I am not impressed at all.  Nichushkin abused him, Drouin abused him, MacKinnon abused him....

 

The bad news is if he falls all the way to 5th, that means the top 4 forwards are likely gone.  Good think Lindholm should still be there.

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If he fell to 5th, I would either trade down or pass him on to 6th.  I am not impressed at all.  Nichushkin abused him, Drouin abused him, MacKinnon abused him....

 

The bad news is if he falls all the way to 5th, that means the top 4 forwards are likely gone.  Good think Lindholm should still be there.

 

if nichushkin got picked and jones was still on the table id go after monahan .  if not mantha  , both players have a quality that would help the canes more than anything,  if the canes went ahead and picked up jones i would not be upset with it , just more upset we didnt get nichushkin 

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I think the AV's are just shaking the Florida tree to see if a coconut falls out. The Panthers are reported to want Mackinnon really bad. If so one scenario I read has the AVs trading down one spot getting some value and still picking Jones at the 2nd pick. I just can't believe Jones falls to five but with Nashville needing offense it could happen.

 

It Jones were at 5 you can't pass him up.

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