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rememberthewhale

Who should stay and who should go for next year

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Heres my list of gones- Mcbain,Pitkanen,Corvo, MAB on the defense side. Offense- Larose,Brent. Look I know I will get flamed for Pitkanen, but it just doesnt work. We pay him a crap ton of money and he doesnt have shutdown capabilties and he also isnt lighting the lamp for us either. So either we trade him if we can if not amnest buyout. The rest of the D see ya.. if we cant get anything oh well. As for Larose dueces to much for what he doesnt bring to the table vs what he does. Dwyer is better plain and simple. Brent nice guy but I think Rask should fill in as the other centerman. This should free us up some money for some Defense. I said it in a nother post so I will say it again. If we are in the top 4 of the draft we take who is available. If we sit 5th we try and trade back to get Nurse which I think we can get at 7 or 8 and if we can pick up a defense man with trading down a bonus. Now we need 1 or 2 big Dman I dont care if they cant score. We need a wall that what we need. Remkin help me out here!

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If Peters still has a two-way contract ship him to the Checkers  Ellis is a UFA so good-bye/

 

Larose is a fan-favorite but has a low ROI

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Welsh has a one-way contract next season, and I can't remember when we paid a guy NHL money to play for the Checkers.  Then there is Nash (RFA), and Brent (UFA).  Rask is going to hopefully start making a push. 

 

I would think we qualify Nash and let Brent walk, at least from what I have seen of Nash.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Like it or not, Peters is next year's backup since he's on a one way. Welsh becomes the 4th line center and Brent is gone. These guys are on one way deals. Blanchard gets a big thumbs up from me and i hope he is around. Murphy fills the slot MAB has. LaRose, you can collect some fabulous parting gifts since there are cheaper options. If JR wins the draft lottery, S Jones starts with the Canes. If not, then we get Corvo for another year. McBain goes somewhere and we take a better look at Sangs.

Tlusty/EStall/Semin

Skinner/JStall/Ruutu

Dwyer/Nash/?

Blanchard/Welsh/?

Extra Bowman/Westgarth

Faulk/Gleason

Pitkanen/?

Murphy/Harrison

Extra Sanguinetti

Ward/Peters

This is how I see next season starting. I think JR finds a home for McBain, gets a physical D man (fingers crossed), and signs a depth forward or two. Welsh and Peters on the one ways hurt what JR is able to do with what he has to work with. He could free up some space with an amnesty buyout, but that cost money.

I think this thread and the "looking forward to next season cap" need to be merged.

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My two cents:

 

1. Every coach on this team should be gone. 

2. Every goalie on this team gone.

3. Every defensemen (except Faulk, Harrison)

4. Keepers E.Staal, Semin, Dywer, Tlusty, Wallace

 

Find away to trade the top 5 pick to Vancouver for Luongo

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I think the top-6 is set.  I think JR is still looking for a third line center.  I think Faulk, Gleason and Harrison are here. I wouldn't be surprised at anything after that on the blue line.  He goes shopping for Cam another cheap vet to replace Ellis. Qualify Nash, let go all UFA's.

 

Then continue the rebuild.  It's been 2 years since we started it and I hope we begin to see some steps forward. 

 

The draft could be a real wild card if we happen to get into the top 4 picks.  Those guys can play here next year.  Regardless, I think JR shops some prospects as well.

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Like it or not, Peters is next year's backup since he's on a one way. Welsh becomes the 4th line center and Brent is gone. These guys are on one way deals. Blanchard gets a big thumbs up from me and i hope he is around. Murphy fills the slot MAB has. LaRose, you can collect some fabulous parting gifts since there are cheaper options. If JR wins the draft lottery, S Jones starts with the Canes. If not, then we get Corvo for another year. McBain goes somewhere and we take a better look at Sangs.

Tlusty/EStall/Semin

Skinner/JStall/Ruutu

Dwyer/Nash/?

Blanchard/Welsh/?

Extra Bowman/Westgarth

Faulk/Gleason

Pitkanen/?

Murphy/Harrison

Extra Sanguinetti

Ward/Peters

This is how I see next season starting. I think JR finds a home for McBain, gets a physical D man (fingers crossed), and signs a depth forward or two. Welsh and Peters on the one ways hurt what JR is able to do with what he has to work with. He could free up some space with an amnesty buyout, but that cost money.

I think this thread and the "looking forward to next season cap" need to be merged.

 

...don't even joke about Corvo being re-signed and coming back next year, if he does I quit. I think Bellemore (if he is still here as he is a RFA) finds a place in the lineup next year. I want to see Dalpe (again if he is here, RFA) get a real shot as well, not the bouncing up and down BS we have seen so far. He was one of our more dangerous forwards during his last call-up, but granted that was a small sample. Welsh looked pretty bad/slow this year, but again it was only a few games so... 

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I don't think I'd be surprised at all to see Corvo again. JR will say that he's looking to make a splash in free agency with a d man. He sticks his toe in the water and doesn't like the temp. He signs Corvo to a 1 year deal and says "We like our group". Does that sound about right?

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If we sit 5th we try and trade back to get Nurse which I think we can get at 7 or 8 and if we can pick up a defense man with trading down a bonus. Now we need 1 or 2 big Dman I dont care if they cant score. We need a wall that what we need. Remkin help me out here!

 

I have been summoned. 

 

Drafting 5th leaves all kinds of options. Nurse will likely still be there. But so will Either Barkov or Nishuskin, Monahan, and Ristolainen. One of them will be gone. JR knows we need D, but doesn't like to draft them. But to some extent that's why we don't have a top defense. I don't think we take Monahan because he's a top playmaking center, and unless he can play wing, we don't have that job open. Barkov, if still there is big and might be convertable to wing. He's a Finn and we like those guys. Nishuskin has been compared to Malkin and might be tough to pass on, though technically under contract for next year w/ KHL. 

 

Nurse and Ristolainen are the next two Dmen in the rankings I've seen and they also list Zadorov as imposing physical presence who hits to hurt. 

 

The option of trading down if we land outside the top 3 is interesting. Don't see it very often. In part because the exact right team has to also want to trade up, have what we want, be willing to give it up, and I think it is a bolder move more open to criticism so GM's shy away. But if we could get something tangible (a dman) for dropping say from #4 to say #8. We could almost certainly pick up the #2,3, or 4 ranked Dmen, all of whom are big physical guys. 

 

This is not the NFL where they need to fill more than double the roster spots and hence a second round pick is still very very valuable. So I would not trade down for a second round pick. But if we could really get something for it, it could be a rare but good move.

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dont know why you would wanna dump westgarth, this team needs toughness, muller may end up having to put a tough guy on sfinners line to protect skinner. we can have anyone running jeff anymore. id also keep bowman, hes cheap and signed and id hate to give up on a young hard working kid with a history of good playoff preformances. toronto gave up on tlusty too earlyand now the regret it. bowman gets one more year. and why is atshuller crossed off?? hes a good junior goalie and its not like we have proven backups.........id like to see samson and dalpe given more than a couple games audition. 

 

I'd keep him I guess, he's shown some sort of toughness. But it only became noticeable after we were mathematically eliminated from playoff contention. Westy wouldn't play with Skinner, he can't even handle receiving passes sometimes. Bowman we have given plenty of time and he simply cannot score at the NHL level. He is a cheap option at depth wing though, and we need depth. I just don't know how much we can afford. Altshuller hasn't impressed me really. But then again that's just me. Look to this draft or the next for a decen goalie being drafted. Mike Murphy I doubt stays, Peters plays his contract out then walks, Ellis walks. Muse and future draftee take Charlotte. Agree on Samson and Dalpe. Samson just overcame an injury this year, and he protects the puck well. He always seemed like the perfect third line winger, can cylce well, plays physical when needed, and potential secondary scoring source. Dalpe seems more like an offensive guy. I saw him score his first NHL goal against Martin Brodeur at the then RBC Centre, and he has a shot.

The only concern about Ruu is, and I love the guy, is the injuries. He is amazing when he is healthy, but it has been a plague on his career unfortunately. I don't think we should move him, but I think if it was to happen that would be the why.

I agree, the injuries bother me. But he's very comparable to Erik Cole. Physical, has offensive abilities, but puts his body in dangerous areas. He seems tougher to me, although you gotta be tough to come back from a broken neck. I read some of his words about having to rehab and watch this season, and it seems like he doesn't want to go through that again. Not to mention he's reaching that age where you either make your mark in the league or you drift away into the darkness.

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I don't think I'd be surprised at all to see Corvo again. JR will say that he's looking to make a splash in free agency with a d man. He sticks his toe in the water and doesn't like the temp. He signs Corvo to a 1 year deal and says "We like our group". Does that sound about right?

 

Unfortunately, that sounds pretty spot on.

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Tonight Ellis played as if he is playing for the back-up role for next season.   don't know how many quality UFA goalies are available for the price the Canes can afford

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Tonight Ellis played as if he is playing for the back-up role for next season.   don't know how many quality UFA goalies are available for the price the Canes can afford

 

Turns out Ellis has been hurt and maybe even played a game or two hurt. The way he has been playing I'd keep looking at him. Not sure what his options will be next year, but after tonight, I'd pick Ellis over Peters or New Guy.

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I don't think I'd be surprised at all to see Corvo again. JR will say that he's looking to make a splash in free agency with a d man. He sticks his toe in the water and doesn't like the temp. He signs Corvo to a 1 year deal and says "We like our group". Does that sound about right?

sound spot on to me, except JR will compound that problem by deciding to trade mabain and our number one pick to pittsburgh in exchange for jussi.............JR loves to recycle........ im gonna cry.......

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Turns out Ellis has been hurt and maybe even played a game or two hurt. The way he has been playing I'd keep looking at him. Not sure what his options will be next year, but after tonight, I'd pick Ellis over Peters or New Guy.

 

Peters needs to wind up on the Checkers (if he has a two-way contract).   If he has a one-way he needs to be bought out.  With the way Ellis has been playing the past few games he deserves a shot during next year's training camp

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Peters needs to wind up on the Checkers (if he has a two-way contract).   If he has a one-way he needs to be bought out.  With the way Ellis has been playing the past few games he deserves a shot during next year's training camp

 

I seem to remember Peters being on a one way next year. Wonder if he has any trade value? 

 

I just think a healthy Ellis would be our best bet to back up. Not sure what Ellis is expecting. But realistically a back up slot is his best shot. 

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given Peters' performances; he has the trade value of a bag of used pucks.  Perhaps Tripp can encourage him to seek another career path as it isn't an NHL goalie/

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given Peters' performances; he has the trade value of a bag of used pucks.  

 

Are they lightly used pucks or dinged up pucks?

 

But I suspect you're right.

 

I would rather go w/ Ellis than throw money or trades at some other back up. If we consider Ellis playing sick and hurt at least some of the time, the healthy version has been a pretty decent back up. Especially considering our team defense. Plus Hurricane's back up goalie is career suicide for any decent back up out there (again considering our defensive play).

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This is not that crazy of an idea. Skinner's a good player, but he is not the impact player that he was in his rookie season. He's been scouted by opposing coaches and his moves have mostly been mapped out and are easily defended against. He has no upper-body strength and is consistently physically removed from plays. He's most effective when defenses blow their coverage. You cant bank on that happening often enough for him to go back to being a 30-goal scorer. This team is absolutely *desperate* for some game-changing defense. We're going to have to give something up to get that. I think Skinner tops the trade-bait list.

 

 

I'll make a probable unpopular suggestion that if we don't end up with Seth Jones and instead end up with one of the top forwards, trade Skinner for a 5-6M range DMan.

 

I just think he's a ticking time bomb and we could end up holding nothing.  The concussions worry me.

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I will come to Skinner's defense. The guy has rare elite talent. Most guys his age are just trying to stick on an NHL roster or in college or the AHL, while he already has 64 goals and 130 points. Look how unlikely it was to get Semin. 

 

I pay to see Skinner play. He is tenacious with the puck and is starting to seriously improve his playmaking and defense. 

 

He is 20 years old. He has NOT peaked. You just can't trade that away.

 

That said we DO need defense. We are ranked #28 in goals given up, and #27 on the PK. We leave our goalies out to dry like it's the gameplan. 

 

I get where you're coming from. We desperately need defense, the FA pool is shallow, and we really don't have tradable assets. And his concussions scare me too. 

 

But this guy is truly special. 

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I will come to Skinner's defense. The guy has rare elite talent. Most guys his age are just trying to stick on an NHL roster or in college or the AHL, while he already has 64 goals and 130 points. Look how unlikely it was to get Semin. 

 

I pay to see Skinner play. He is tenacious with the puck and is starting to seriously improve his playmaking and defense. 

 

He is 20 years old. He has NOT peaked. You just can't trade that away.

 

....  his concussions scare me too. 

 

But this guy is truly special. 

:goodpost:

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I will come to Skinner's defense. The guy has rare elite talent. Most guys his age are just trying to stick on an NHL roster or in college or the AHL, while he already has 64 goals and 130 points. Look how unlikely it was to get Semin. 

 

I pay to see Skinner play. He is tenacious with the puck and is starting to seriously improve his playmaking and defense. 

 

He is 20 years old. He has NOT peaked. You just can't trade that away.

 

That said we DO need defense. We are ranked #28 in goals given up, and #27 on the PK. We leave our goalies out to dry like it's the gameplan. 

 

I get where you're coming from. We desperately need defense, the FA pool is shallow, and we really don't have tradable assets. And his concussions scare me too. 

 

But this guy is truly special. 

 

Completely agree, Skinner is so young and has so much talent. Thinking back how I was at 20 years old...well...lets give Skinner time to mature and grow as a player. Besides, if we traded him, the person we traded him for would just sign somewhwere else as soon as the opportunity presented itself. I know this is speculation, but it scares me (like Skinner's concussions) and I have been scarred over the years watching it happen. And like was said above, Skinner is one of those guys people pay to see, he is a rare talent and you really can't compare his style to many players, if any at all.

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I love threads like this because of the unrational things people say - and it's not unrational because of the idea, just that it would never happen.

 

Getting rid of Skinner? ha. Now THAT'S funny.

 

We have seen Skinner healthy for two periods of time in his career - his rookie year and the start of this season. And both times he was amazing. There is no way you trade a 20 year old with that proven track record. Even if he was 100% healthy, he still would be on pace for almost a 30 goal season.

 

This team doesn't have the money to bring in the type of defenseman they need. Remember, next season J. Staal and Skinner's new contracts start. This team has over 38 million tied up in Staal, Staal, Semin, Ruutu, Skinner and Ward alone next season. Then another 8.5 million in Gleason and Pitkanen. And while Tlusty is only make 1.6 million, his contract is over next year. Another year like this one, he will need a pay increase. So you are talking in two years, 9 players basically taking 50 million of your payroll. And we aren't even talking about the needed increase for Faulk after next year as well.

 

What does that mean? in reality, this means one of these guys has to go in order for something to happen. And when you determine who has to go on these types of lists, you start with who won't go.

 

Eric Staal will not be traded. Jordan Staal will not be traded. Alex Semin will not be traded. Skinner will not be traded. Ward will not be traded. Tlusty might be, but not until next year on a rental situation if the season goes bad.

 

So this comes down Ruutu, Gleason and Pitkanen.

 

One of these three guys will be traded either for basically nothing (then his money goes to a free agent D man) or for a stud defensemen straight up with some pieces thrown in.

 

I think Ruutu is the most likely to go, to be honest.

 

There is a huge difference in these discussion between what we want and what will happen. Do I want Ruutu trade? Nope. But when you look at the numbers and situation, he really is the most logical player to be moved.

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I think Ruutu is the most likely to go, to be honest.

 

There is a huge difference in these discussion between what we want and what will happen. Do I want Ruutu trade? Nope. But when you look at the numbers and situation, he really is the most logical player to be moved.

 

I actually came to a similar conclusion but didn't post it about Ruutu, because he is one of my favorite players and he brings something we need: a guy who can hit and score and by the way is a great locker room guy w/ character.  So I came to the conclusion that I don't move Ruutu.

 

But then who do you move? I absolutely don't want to give up our first round pick either. Where we are picking those are the kind of elite guys that no one gives up. 

 

The only way not to "give to get" is FA or draft. Well we will draft but will that immediately solidify the D? No. Unless it is Jones. And the FA market is paper thin and lots of other competition. 

 

I'd move McBain or Sanguinetti in a heartbeat but by themselves they will bring back next to nothing. Seriously, anyone out there want to give up something for McBain? Anyone? (crickets chirping), Dalpe? Bowman? (more crickets), Welch, Westgarth, Wallace. Anyone? 

 

It really is a dilemma. I am really hoping someone needs to make the cap and lets a guy slip, or a full on rebuild lets someone lose the way Florida let Allen go.

 

If anyone wanted a "same in kind" trade of Pitkanen for a more stay at home guy, or Pits plus someone? 

 

As much as I like offense, for the first time in a long time JR MUST do something about this defense. This will make or break JR's job performance in my view. Can he do it? 

Edited by remkin

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