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rememberthewhale

Who should stay and who should go for next year

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I'll say i'll believe it when i see it.  I was encouraged by JR in his presser, it sounds like he's ready to do things he's not used to.  But he's always complained about the difficulties of getting defensemen.  If he can get 2 or 3 defensemen THAT FILLS A VOID, then i'll be as impressed as i was last offseason

I'd like to see JR aggressively go after 2 defensemen. One of them should be a big, skilled 2-way guy, which will have to certainly be via trade. If we have to trade somebody like Skinner, IMO the trade should be with a Western Conference team. The other should be a big, tough d-man or a veteran leadership d-man (short-term basis). Then keep Faulk and Gleason as a nucleus but make sure not to swing to a majority of defensive d-men....

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Mueller has had basically just one season as a head coach. You almost NEVER fire a guy after 1 season.

 

I don't buy the training camp excuse, but you have to give a guy at least 2 - 3 seasons.

Injuries destroyed the team, not the coaching...

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Here's my thing about Gleason, i know when JR said there were guys playing outside their roles, i know he was referring to gleason.  And apparently he was playing with a broken foot?  The bottom line if Cullen was traded for salary purpose, and was making half gleason's salary, gleason can be traded as well.  I for one got really disgusted by our lack of physicality.  We get out-hit on a nightly basis.  Gleason is suppose to be the toughest guy and one our captains.  So he should be most accountable for our team not hitting.  I'd be screaming for joni's head, but he only has 1yr left, and i doubt he'll get that same contract again if he were to stay.

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Here's my thing about Gleason, i know when JR said there were guys playing outside their roles, i know he was referring to gleason.  And apparently he was playing with a broken foot?  The bottom line if Cullen was traded for salary purpose, and was making half gleason's salary, gleason can be traded as well.  I for one got really disgusted by our lack of physicality.  We get out-hit on a nightly basis.  Gleason is suppose to be the toughest guy and one our captains.  So he should be most accountable for our team not hitting.  I'd be screaming for joni's head, but he only has 1yr left, and i doubt he'll get that same contract again if he were to stay.

 

You absolutely cannot get rid of Gleason at this time. While he may not have had the best year, I give him a bit of a pass given the shortened season and the whole broken foot thing. Gleason may not be the tough guy we want him to be, but a team that's as soft as the Cane's can't get rid of any toughness that we have period. We're not going to replace it easily in one off season. You toss out Gleason and now you're looking for 3 or 4 tough D in one off season. Won't happen. This isn't the year to change out Gleason. If we do manage to add a couple guys that fill his role and he continues to have bad seasons, then you look to fill his spot. We have much bigger problems than Tim Gleason's toughness at the moment though. 

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Who should definitley go

 

-Peters,just simply not any good has an NHL goalie,and he has had 1 1/2 seasons to prove otherwise(and he hasnt!!)

-Sangs,one vital mistake after another,and he didnt get any better

-Corvo,I usued to call him 'Scorvo",but that was back in 2008 when he actually was a PP threat,now he is just a defensive liability

-Larose,plays his heart out every game,but his production has dropped dramticly,and he wont be back anyway after skipping his exit interview,thanks for the effort Chad. Good luck in the future

 

Who maybe should go

 

Muller-dont like his motto to "Stick to the system" , after the playoff commercial and the following nose dive through the standings,its ovbios maybe we shouldn't have stuck to the system,then again maybe we need a whole new system,not saying we bring him back but atleast Mo understood you had to adapt to the game,not be tied down to a single system.

JR-He has oversaw countless years of playoff success including a Cup,but we havent been to the playoffs in 4 seasons,but what have we seen over and over those 4 years ? AHLers and Recycles on Defense,and our defense has been terrible,it urks me when I see players skating for the Canes that should be skating for the Checkers!!!, And I am sure it urks Cam Ward also!!! We wont survive in our new division without NHL calibre Defensemen!!!

Pitkanen-A good player,but is injury prone recently,I would still buy a Pits Jersey,but I think our entire D needs to be gutted and replaced,with the exceptions of Faulk and Harrison

 

Who Should Stay

 

E.Staal,of course

A.Semin,still cant believe he resigned here,and am worried that he will ask for a trade

J.Tlusty,needs to stay on the first line

J.Staal,can score and good 2 way player,just need to find chemistry with a line

T.Ruutu,not going to replace his hitting ability,and he is an enforcer that can score

J.Skinner,has the ability to will his way to the net,just needs to learn a little more about setting up plays and he will be a regular at the all-star game

-Cam Ward,yes I know I was calling for him to be benched,but that was becuase of the pressure of the short season,Peters and Ellis showed us just how valuable he is to this  team,yes he will have the WTH was that moment,but his "WOW" How did he stop that" moments more than make up for them,and he gives our players confidence that he will hold the score so they can come back

-Dan Ellis,while I wouldnt trust him to be a full time starter,he is a good team player,and has a no BS attitude,when the team started its meltdown,he was the only voice I heard saying what needed to be said,when the players with letters on there jerseys where silent

J.Faulk,one of our only reliable Dmen

J.Harrison,will have some mistakes,but is good most of the time,and is a threat from the point

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I'll go line by line through the final roster:

 

Forwards:

Bowman- Showed some promise, but I think he needs a better line pairing.  I'd re-up him for 2-3 more years...and give him a good shot next season.  If it doesn't work out, trade him.

Brent- I like the guy...he's been ok on PP, but hasn't shown much this season due to injury.  Like Rosey, he'll be a mid-liner his entire career.  Unless we can get another PP forward, I'd say keep him as well.

Dwyer- Patty had a great season...keep him.

LaRose-  Let's not go there, shall we?  :(

Ruutu- Injury shortened season...came back and started lighting the lamp...yep, a keeper!

Semin- Self-explanatory

Skinner- You guys know my reasoning for dangling him as trade bait.  If we can't get him protection, he won't be playing when he's 30.

E Staal- N/A

Jo Staal- N/A...but at least take his "A" away

Tlusty-  Are you kidding me?

Westgarth- Not enough to satisfy me...dump.

 

Defense:

Bergeron- If we can get him for cheap, re-up...otherwise...

Corvo- RETIRE

Faulk- Keep

Gleason- Keep

Harrison- Keep

McBain- See ya!

Pitkanen- We pay too much for him to keep riding the injury bench and not produce when he's healthy...trade.

Sanguinetti- Bye bye bye...BYE BYE!

 

Goalies:

Ellis- Nope

Peters- Nope

Ward- Yep
 

Charlotte call-ups:

Nodl- I don't know if he's ever been the same since he took that cheap shot from Bogosian a year ago.  I really like his fire and play...and think he's still a good 3rd/4th liner.  I say keep him.

Ja Staal- Give this guy a 4th line slot NOW!

Blanchard- Showed more fight (literally) in 4 games than Westgarth did all season...hell yes!

Dalpe- One more year...this time keep him on the 3rd or 4th line.

Jordan- Nope

Boychuk- I've seen enough...why did we take him back?

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Here's my thing about Gleason, i know when JR said there were guys playing outside their roles, i know he was referring to gleason.  And apparently he was playing with a broken foot?  The bottom line if Cullen was traded for salary purpose, and was making half gleason's salary, gleason can be traded as well.  I for one got really disgusted by our lack of physicality.  We get out-hit on a nightly basis.  Gleason is suppose to be the toughest guy and one our captains.  So he should be most accountable for our team not hitting.  I'd be screaming for joni's head, but he only has 1yr left, and i doubt he'll get that same contract again if he were to stay.

 

JR's comments from the press conference were:

When you saw our team struggle through the second half, what happens is it is a domino effect. And players get put in a position, defensemen get put in a position that they can't handle. So the defense men that are supposed to be playing as the 5th and 6th defensemen and playing 14, 15 minutes a game all of the sudden, some of them are playing 22 minutes a game. And they can't handle it, you know.

To me, that doesn't sound like Gleason, who played the same shut-down role as he has for years. It sounds more like Corvo, who was signed to play a 5/6 role, and was put in Faulk's spot next to Gleason when Faulk was out. Corvo did okay in his expected role, but struggled with more minutes and more responsibility. He could also be referring to McBain, who, when Pitkanen went out, was the primary puck-moving defenseman and played way more minutes than he had been. He led the team in minutes for a game or two, until they went with seven d-men and got his minutes down. He could also be including Harrison, who had to take on more minutes/responsibility with the injuries.

 

And I didn't think it was an indictment of those particular players. They did fine, in their expected roles. But the group was not constructed very well to be able to handle the (inevitible) injuries. And that neeeds to be addressed.

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He was most certainly referring to Corvo, McBain, Harrison, and to a lesser extent Sanguinetti with that particular comment.  Gleason averaged what Gleason has always averaged in TOI.

 

The big problem with the defense IMO, as Invisible pointed out, was the construction of the overall blue line.  Way too much emphasis on puck movement and not enough emphasis on solid, physical play, shot-blocking. crease-clearing, and simple outlet passes.

 

Personally, I don't think this team needs superstars on the back end to improve.  Solid veteran defenseman that can do the above are out there for <5-6 mil per year.

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He was most certainly referring to Corvo, McBain, Harrison, and to a lesser extent Sanguinetti with that particular comment.  Gleason averaged what Gleason has always averaged in TOI.

 

The big problem with the defense IMO, as Invisible pointed out, was the construction of the overall blue line.  Way too much emphasis on puck movement and not enough emphasis on solid, physical play, shot-blocking. crease-clearing, and simple outlet passes.

 

Personally, I don't think this team needs superstars on the back end to improve.  Solid veteran defenseman that can do the above are out there for <5-6 mil per year.

One is a skilled Erik Johnson ($3.4M) of the Avs (#1 pick in 2006 draft) ... big, strong, good skater, offensive upside ... and maybe a pure defensive guy like TOR's Ryan O'Byrne (UFA $2M) or Avs Shane O'Brien ($2M)...both are big, tough, hits, block shots... I like Seabrook or Coburn in the >$5 group. Edited by Bill_B

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Skinner is one hit away from his career ending. It's time to get an elite defensemen while we can. Trade him while he is still valuable. He is not our future.

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Personally, I don't think this team needs superstars on the back end to improve.  Solid veteran defenseman that can do the above are out there for <5-6 mil per year.

 

Agreed and its not like superstars are easy to convince to come here anyway.  Spend a few dollars to get a couple of established veterans who play solid defense first and start building the farm team immediately.  Depth has been and is this team's biggest shortcoming imo.  JR has a decent track record of picking up other team's 1st rounders who need a change of scenery so hopefully he'll find a couple once the salary dumps begin.

 

As for Jeff Skinner, its an interesting argument on each side but he is a marketing dream come true when healthy.  Players like him don't come around that often so I have a hard time believing JR is ready to give up on him just yet. 

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The big advantage of getting a couple of solid type dmen, vs. trading for a stud, especially if JR can work his cast off magic on one or two, is keeping our forwards in tact. 

 

If we pick Nich, I like the look of our lines up front a lot (if he comes over immediately).

 

E, Semin, Tlusty

J, Ruutu, Skinner

Nich, Nash, FA rugged two way w/ scoring touch guy.

 

Plus I like saying Nich-Nash. But seriously, I've been liking Nash over all. And guys like Monahan and Barkov seem like pure centers and not third line centers either. 

Edited by remkin

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Sure, the kid (Skinner) has a few holes in his game. 

 

I have to say it's surprising to me to hear the trade conversations after all the moaning and complaining over the years on this board about not being patient and developing players properly.

 

I really don't think it's time to give up on him.  He will come around as he continues to mature.  You can't go out and just find the raw talent he has just anywhere.

 

Personally, I'd like to see him on the third line where he can work on his two-way game against lesser opponents.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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OK for Coastal this would work also: 

 

Semin,E Tlusty

 Ruutu J FA

Nich Nash Skinner

 

or really for Coastal

 

Semin, E,Tlusty

Ruutu, J, FA

Skinner Monahan Dwyer

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OK for Coastal this would work also: 

 

Semin,E Tlusty

 Ruutu J FA

Nich Nash Skinner

 

or really for Coastal

 

Semin, E,Tlusty

Ruutu, J, FA

Skinner Monahan Dwyer

 

I saw what you did there.  And I don't mean Monahan. ;)

 

Barkov would work as well.  Can't have too many centers.

 

What we really need is Scott Walker on the wing opposite Skinner.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I saw what you did there.  And I don't mean Monahan. ;)

 

Barkov would work as well.  Can't have too many centers.

 

What we really need is Scott Walker on the wing opposite Skinner.

Right-on. A reincarnation of Scott Walker would be perfect. Think if Scotty had been 6'3" or 6'4"!!!

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you know what blows my mind is the fact that special teams were a complete failure yet there are noting to be any coaching changes. i thought it would be a givein that maclean would be axed.......

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you know what blows my mind is the fact that special teams were a complete failure yet there are noting to be any coaching changes. i thought it would be a givein that maclean would be axed.......

What?  You didn't get the memo?  It was PLAYERS who couldn't fill roles they were ASKED to fill when injuries hit.

 

Coaching?  Mangement?  Nothing wrong there.  Move along, move along....

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What?  You didn't get the memo?  It was PLAYERS who couldn't fill roles they were ASKED to fill when injuries hit.

 

Coaching?  Mangement?  Nothing wrong there.  Move along, move along....

lol.. the other thing that blows my mind is PK and JR just now figuring out after 2-3 years that we need defensive help and need to get tougher.......???????  DO YA THINK??????????? and these people are professionals????  wow...... if i hadnt seen there faces id say dumb blondes...... the more i think about it there must be some rival GMs out there just laughing at the makeup of this team the last two years.......

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lol.. the other thing that blows my mind is PK and JR just now figuring out after 2-3 years that we need defensive help and need to get tougher.......???????  DO YA THINK??????????? and these people are professionals????  wow...... if i hadnt seen there faces id say dumb blondes...... the more i think about it there must be some rival GMs out there just laughing at the makeup of this team the last two years.......

This is what I've been saying since I joined this board. Our deficiencies have been obvious for years and the light is just coming on for management now. I know people will defend JR, but IMO the last few years of not addressing team needs is unacceptable.

Speaking of unacceptable, this organization better not even whisper the word "accountability." Coaches and management blaming the players to cover up for management's inability to have proper depth in the organization doesn't count. Using injuries as an excuse doesn't count either.

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This maybe absurd, but what if we bought out pitkanen? I don't think our defense has been any worse with him out of action. I think money's going to be extremely tight considering JR wants to add at least 2 defensemen, and we currently don't have a 4th line center and another winger for the 3rd line. Freeing up another 4.5mil could go a long way.

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What?  You didn't get the memo?  It was PLAYERS who couldn't fill roles they were ASKED to fill when injuries hit.

 

Coaching?  Mangement?  Nothing wrong there.  Move along, move along....

Yep no shortage of excuses with this crew. Despite this nightmare of a season I still remain optimistic that better days are ahead. I was amazed when I read that the Canes had averaged over 17K in attendance this year. The STHs, many of whom have invested thousands of their hard earned dollars, deserve their own special standing ovation for putting up with this crap the past 4 years.

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This maybe absurd, but what if we bought out pitkanen? I don't think our defense has been any worse with him out of action. I think money's going to be extremely tight considering JR wants to add at least 2 defensemen, and we currently don't have a 4th line center and another winger for the 3rd line. Freeing up another 4.5mil could go a long way.

I have never been a fan, and find his play frustrating to watch. If we could get something good in return then I say ship him out.

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