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The ice under the former minder was just as bad at times, if not worse.  Our ice has been bad all season, and yesterday it went from bad to horrible.

Coastal, I was of the understanding that Donnie(finally remembered his name), the former ice tender was a master at his craft? I'd read that many players from several other teams were extremely complimentary about our ice when they played here? Surely in this area, with our climate, there will be challanges, but if the owner spends $64 million on his players(this year), wouldn't you think he'd spend whatever it took to give them the best ice surface he could?

 

Compound this with the injuries that have to result on improperly maintained ice surface, and sorry,I just don't understand not correcting the problem.

 

And yes, super_dave_1, it does seem rather simple, but obviously must be much more complicated than putting water in an ice tray for ice cubes.

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Nice division summary hopper. I'm not at the point where I'm screaming we need to "turn things around." Some players need to step up and or there's plenty of areas that need improvement. If we stay the course and work on the basics it seems like things should click. Now, with peters as back up, we def need the goal scorers to get back in the groove. Who knows, maybe peters has improved. That we shall see.

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Coastal, I was of the understanding that Donnie(finally remembered his name), the former ice tender was a master at his craft? I'd read that many players from several other teams were extremely complimentary about our ice when they played here? Surely in this area, with our climate, there will be challanges, but if the owner spends $64 million on his players(this year), wouldn't you think he'd spend whatever it took to give them the best ice surface he could?

 

Compound this with the injuries that have to result on improperly maintained ice surface, and sorry,I just don't understand not correcting the problem.

 

And yes, super_dave_1, it does seem rather simple, but obviously must be much more complicated than putting water in an ice tray for ice cubes.

 

I never said Donnie didn't do a good to excellent job with the ice.  I said at times, even under his tenure, it was terrible.  The ice in the 2002 run was miserably bad, mostly because it was too wet and lot's of slush accumulated.  But that year it was upwards of 95 degrees by the time the Finals came around.

 

The ice we have now is really bad, but to me, it appears too hard, thus the bouncing pucks. 

 

And yes, I hope this gets corrected.

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And yes, super_dave_1, it does seem rather simple, but obviously must be much more complicated than putting water in an ice tray for ice cubes.

It does seem like it wouldn't be rocket surgery, but it must be. I would think the coolant temp, humidity, and air temp would be the only variables.

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Why does ice seem to be a problem to the Canes? The other teams seem to do ok. You would think that practicing on the ice would give the Canes an advantage over the visitors, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Do you think that mabye the Canes lost because the other team played harder? If good ice equated to good teams, then Edmonton would be a lot better than they are. If the Canes get more consistent goalie play, and better production from the big guns, I'll bet the ice is going to look a lot smoother.

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Seems to me that the ice must be causing passes to where scaters were, rather than to where they are going.  Maybe there is some glare from the surface?  Perhaps there needs to be some tint in their face shields.

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But unless they become more frequent, last night's game actually is worth just writing off. Again, the legit issues, PP, 4 on 4, getting the first line going, those are there despite last night and need to be fixed. But basing anything off of just last night? The term smallest of small sample sizes comes to mind.

 

Yes they are professionals paid to play, it's not like they refused to take the ice. But it just wasn't there. Again, if it happens more than here and there, we have a problem. But we'll see other teams fail to show up against us too. It happens multiple times to all teams.

 

I'd say one of the most important issues, if not THE most important issue, is our completely terrible face off %age. Seriously, it all starts from there. If you start off with puck possession, you do less chasing (and tire out less quickly), dictate the play more, usually have more offensive zone time, and have a better chance of winning. PP goals will come from better face off percentage. 4 on 4 play would benefit from better face off percentage. Shots against would benefit from better face off percentage. And so far this season I think we've had one game so far with a better FO% than our opponents. That's not good.

Well, we did lose our ice guy a couple seasons ago.

No team plays perfect for 60 minutes. That is how teams score goals! If every team played a perfect game, every game would be BORING! And the scores would be 1-0 (at best) and settled in OT or a shootout. You find a small window, and you exploit it for that few seconds where you have an advantage. On the other side, you try to minimize those small windows to small pockets through out the game. Friday night's game was about as close to a perfect game the Canes played in a very long time. Face-offs for me was probably the main negative.

 

I'm been around the Canes forum (and hockey) for a long time and goaltenders are always singled out. From Kidd, to Irbe to Weekes, etc.... They are hockey's version of the Quarterback. When the team wins, it was because the goaltender stood on his head. When they lose, it is because the goaltender looked like a seal flopping on the ice. People rarely mention the guys in front of him are clearing the crease so the puck looks like a beach ball, or laying out to block shots so he doesn't face 40+ shots a night. It takes a person with a couple screws missing to want to stand in a net for 60 minutes and be shot at by a frozen piece of vulcanized rubber. He is the only player who is out there the whole 60 minutes. Its not like the bench calls for a goalie change, like a line change, and swap netminders out so one can take a breather.

Completely 100% DISAGREE. I can see where you're trying to make the point, but no one is saying we have to play perfect for a full game. We're saying simply PLAY a full game. And yes, it's very possible to play a perfect game for 60 minutes. Shutouts happen. And yes, other teams score. Not all goals are the result of a mistake or error. Many are simply very good shots or the result of having one less man on the ice than the other team (powerplay goals against). I completely disagree with your statement at the beginning. If you're happy with a team that plays perfect hockey for 30 minutes and then whatever hockey the other 30 minutes then you should be absolutely content with missing the playoffs every year (not saying you are, just saying in general). I mean, this to me looks like the biggest excuse for mediocre hockey. Yes, we played one, maybe two bad games. But we've only play a full game twice in the season so far. That's not entirely inspiring. Our division is struggling, which is good for us, but honestly how long do you think that will continue? NYR looked like they wouldn't make the post-season for 3/4s of last season and made them with a strong two-week finish to the season. That was in 48 games as well (which in my opinion is harder to rise in the standings during the stretch). The only teams I'm not terribly worried about is Philadelphia. Washington, New York, New Jersey, all these teams have recently been able to shoot up in the standings at any point in a season. They've all done it several times, and should be able to do it again. To count those teams out early is just as irresponsible as counting us out this early, or saying we definitely will make it this early (again, not saying you are, just saying in general). 

Anyways, TL;DR: playing a full game perfect is NOT impossible. No one is asking that, we're asking to PLAY a full game. Anyone content with a team that plays almost a full game shouldn't be upset about consistently missing the post-season. Any reason made about how a team cannot play a full 60 minutes is simply an excuse. Several teams have been able to do it, in fact a majority of teams in this league do it nightly. Yes, every team has off nights. And yes, last game was our off night. But the fact we've played a full game only two times in six games is not really comforting.

 

I'm sure Muller will have these guys firing on all cylinders in a week or two. But hopper's post really bothered me, at least the first part of it. And counting out NJ, NYR, and WSH is irresponsible, as is counting us out. /rant

 

EDIT: and let me add, I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form, that we are doomed. I'm just saying we need to find that consistency, and the full effort that should be expected (and that an almost full effort shouldn't be tolerated), to have our fans, or at least the less optimistic ones, calm down and stop worrying.

 

EDITEDIT: On another note, Muller finally broke up the first line. I think the way he talked Ruutu is going to take Tlusty's spot. I think that's dumb, considering Tlusty took 10 games to get going last season and went on his torrid pace, and he was the best player on the first line last night, and was still demoted in the third.

 

EDITEDITEDIT: This stupid format glitch is annoying me. Fixed the quotes somewhat.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Sucka, I think I agree with you, if I'm understanding what you've said.However, as far as moving Ruutu up and Tlusty down, perhaps he attempting to get better balance? Likely not for entire season, but if it brings better balance, I'm all for it.

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Sucka, I think I agree with you, if I'm understanding what you've said.However, as far as moving Ruutu up and Tlusty down, perhaps he attempting to get better balance? Likely not for entire season, but if it brings better balance, I'm all for it.

:lol: I'm all for shaking things up on the top line. They need something to jump start them. I just think Tlusty being the scapegoat has a lot to do with who has the bigger paychecks and less to do with their actual play.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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    Regarding faceoffs, it should be interesting to see what happens with Manny Malhotra

 

    CBC's Satellite Hotstove reports interest is being shown in him

from around the league, as teams are watching to see how he plays out.

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Just saw who the next 3 opponents were.  Yikes, this schedule has been a tough one to start the season with.  I'd say I'm looking forward to getting out of October but the schedule really doesnt let up.

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    Regarding faceoffs, it should be interesting to see what happens with Manny Malhotra

 

    CBC's Satellite Hotstove reports interest is being shown in him

from around the league, as teams are watching to see how he plays out.

i have been extremely interested in the Malhotra tryout, as I have long admired him  from afar, and was saddened when he suffered the terrible eye injury. I hope that he has a good tryout, and further that JR will lock him up if he shows well. He would be an unbeliveable asset, not only for his faceoff prowess, but also his character, which I believe is top rate.

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Suckah, all I was trying to point out is that from reading the perceptive tone on here, some people seem to expect perfection and I was just attempting to point out that was not possible. Playing 60 minutes is not the same as playing perfectly. I agree that in the past, this team has failed to play the whole game. Unlike previous seasons, this team seems to be close, outside of Sunday's game, to achieving that.

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I wouldn't say moving Tlusty is a demotion. Maybe Muller is trying to put him on a more productive line and trying to make the first line more productive with Rutuu. Or maybe he just put Rutuu on the "recovering from injury" line. Jus sayin...

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This may be an irrelevant question now but: if Dobby played well for us this year and took us into the playoffs, would the Canes trade Ward?

The only way the Canes could move Wardo is if they agreed to pick up about $3.0 mil of his $6.5 mil salary....  and even then, they'd have very few takers!

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our ice is too hard ....  LOL!!!!  LOL!!!!  on the floor with that one!

 

Yeah, that sounded pretty fan-like, huh?  LOL.  I was commenting just on my own experience but like I said, I've seen some really wet looking ice with lots of slush, and just the opposite, like the last few games here, where the puck just bounced around on it's own at times.

 

I'd love to hear the "correct" terminology for changing ice conditions.  I'm sure you can enlighten me?

 

Oh, and it's nice to see you were able to come out in our backyard, I'm sure having to live in that old goalie thread all the time gets old.

 

But anyway, thanks to RedStorm for coming through.   And from his link I refer to:

 

"Figure skaters and hockey skaters have different ideas of what good ice and bad ice are. Figure skaters prefer an ice temperature of 26 to 28 F. Ice in that temperature range is softer, so it grips the skate edges better. It is also less likely to shatter under the impact of jumps. Hockey players, though, prefer colder, harder ice. With many skaters on the ice simultaneously, it's easy for the ice surface to get chewed up at the temperatures preferred by figure skaters. For hockey games, the top of the ice is usually kept at 24 to 26 F. Ice that's too warm might cause players to lose their edge during a crucial play, but ice that's too cold may chip too readily."

 

Sounds like this fan isn't such a dummy after all. I tstand by my comment, maybe the ice is "too" hard.

 

Carry on, please. :popcorn:

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Suckah, all I was trying to point out is that from reading the perceptive tone on here, some people seem to expect perfection and I was just attempting to point out that was not possible. Playing 60 minutes is not the same as playing perfectly. I agree that in the past, this team has failed to play the whole game. Unlike previous seasons, this team seems to be close, outside of Sunday's game, to achieving that.

I understand. I just think that, and not from members of this forum, but many fans are content with just going to games, getting drunk, eating BBQ, and going home. It's apparent that fans on this site want more, and should demand more, from the team. And we have played a couple full games, but to me a couple in six so far isn't cutting it, and won't cut it if we want to make those playoffs and get to the next level. I get so frustrated sometimes watching this team, especially when it happens several years in a row. I miss that drive we saw in '06 and during the stretch in '09. That ability to go down in a game by several goals and find the drive to push harder and come back to win games.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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  Eric,Semin, and Jordan are the biggest concerns to me.  All 3 are constantly turning the puck over and making horrible passes, wiffing on shots.  I believe they will all come around soon and than we will roll with some winning streaks.  Defense is doing there job, 3rd and 4th line is doing there job.  come on big money players, its time to win some games and score some PP goals.  Still feeling good about this team and I won't panic until mid november.  If we can stay at .500 or slighltly above til than, than I think we will do well the second half of the season when the players really know one another and develop chemistry. We need 80pts from eric, 70points from Semin and 60points from Jordan.  Right now only Skinner is earning his big money.

 

And right now Gerbe is underpaid!

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I understand. I just think that, and not from members of this forum, but many fans are content with just going to games, getting drunk, eating BBQ, and going home. It's apparent that fans on this site want more, and should demand more, from the team. And we have played a couple full games, but to me a couple in six so far isn't cutting it, and won't cut it if we want to make those playoffs and get to the next level. I get so frustrated sometimes watching this team, especially when it happens several years in a row. I miss that drive we saw in '06 and during the stretch in '09. That ability to go down in a game by several goals and find the drive to push harder and come back to win games.

:goodpost:  :winner:    so true... 

 

Its also amazing the length some will go to ignore facts and make excuses rather than acknowledge years of objective sports information.

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I understand. I just think that, and not from members of this forum, but many fans are content with just going to games, getting drunk, eating BBQ, and going home. It's apparent that fans on this site want more, and should demand more, from the team. And we have played a couple full games, but to me a couple in six so far isn't cutting it, and won't cut it if we want to make those playoffs and get to the next level. I get so frustrated sometimes watching this team, especially when it happens several years in a row. I miss that drive we saw in '06 and during the stretch in '09. That ability to go down in a game by several goals and find the drive to push harder and come back to win games.

This may be the best post thus far this season. Most everyone on this site wants a better team than what we keep getting.. Whether you are on the side of give it more time, or time is up trade someone.. Like others here I give my 2 cents, but do any of us REALLY know?? What is weird is players come here and seldom improve, they go elsewhere and score a hat trick on us... Somewhere there is a real problem just not sure what it is...............

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