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If the Staal Brothers don't show some urgency in their game soon than I am about to be ok with getting rid of both of them.  They look slow and lazy and no urgency in their game.  I don't understand it, I thought they were gonna put a fire under eachother and play their hearts out everynight.   Last night Semin,Gerbe,Murphy, Lindholm and peters showed up and played their hearts out.   I'm frustrated with the Staals as I'm sure everyone is.  Eric will eventually get hot for 5 games and put up some numbers, Jordan has yet to show anything to Raleigh.   If he would just dig deep and play his heart out he could dominate out there and score some goals.   He just forgot how to play with fire and passion since he came to Raleigh.  I've been waiting and saying, "he's gonna come around" but now I'm really getting worried he may not ever be the same player he was in Pittsburgh.   E. Staal is having a typical Lazy slump but will come around and get his 70plus points by seasons end.

 

 

Overall we are an extremely fast team with good defense so far and we showed that during the second and third periods last night.  Our multi millionare stars just forgot how to put the puck in the back of the net.  That is our number one problem, not Peters, not defense, not coaching, its all on the Staals, Semin,Ruutu,Tlusty, right now.

Edited by danimal-ch1

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I think there is something to the circle the wagons around Peters theory. It is a theory I had last year also. We simply MUST be better in our own end even with Ward or Khudoben back there, and with the idea that Peters might be a tad weaker, there probably is a sense of that even more. 

 

The plan was to build from the goal out. That is challenged if the goalie is questionable. (Don't get me wrong, I actually think Peters has played pretty well, but that doesn't mean the team is as confident in him as they are w/ Ward). But the fall back to the house will not work for this team. If you have a rock solid, top 5 defense and an All Star goalie, it can get you to the playoffs, but we are not that. We need to generate offense. We have disproportionately more "scoring" forwards than most teams by far and at some point we need them to start playing like it. 

 

E.,Semin, J (yes, J), Ruutu, Skinner, and Tlusty can all put up serious points. Add in Gerbe and Lindholm at the next level and that is a LOT of offense up front. At some point soon, we need to find a way to start unleashing that offense. This team on paper should be in the top 10 on offense at LEAST. Instead we are #25. 

 

I can no longer make excuses for Jordan. Time to step up and start earning that paycheck. And frankly Eric needs to find his top gear also. 

 

I am smart enough to know I'm not smart enough to know the overall system problems when offenses sputter. But it would seem to be between the coaches and the top players to figure it out and quick. Since Tampa averages just under 4 goals per game.

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It sounds like Buffalo got the best of the deal by far imo.  Not only did the Sabres get Moulson, a 1st round pick, and a 2nd round pick, they'll save about $4m in salary differential this year. Do I think Vanek is better than Moulson? Yes.  Do I think he's that much better? No.  They're both 29, similar size, and look at their numbers starting from 2009 (Moulson's first full NHL season):

                Games   Goals   Points

Moulson:    304         118      223

Vanek:       280          110      237

 

Oh, and the Sabres had almost no chance of re-signing Vanek next year, and it might be tough for the Isles to keep him as well (strong rumors that he wants to end up with Minnesota because of his ties to the area). 

All great points! My comment was more directed to the Canes chances of making the playoffs this year.

The Islanders are going to be one of the teams we really need to compete with, Buffalo not so much -- they are a long shot for the playoffs.

So in turn, did the NYI get better this year (due to the trade)?  Easy call... YES!!

Upshot? Canes odds of making the playoffs (this year) just got worse.

 

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Well...at least Semin is earning his paycheck. That's a relief.... I fear that if we continue down this road, when Ward and K-dub are healthy we will be in too deep of a hole to dig ourselves out of...

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If the Staal Brothers don't show some urgency in their game soon than I am about to be ok with getting rid of both of them.  They look slow and lazy and no urgency in their game.  I don't understand it, I thought they were gonna put a fire under eachother and play their hearts out everynight.   Last night Semin,Gerbe,Murphy, Lindholm and peters showed up and played their hearts out.   I'm frustrated with the Staals as I'm sure everyone is.  Eric will eventually get hot for 5 games and put up some numbers, Jordan has yet to show anything to Raleigh.   If he would just dig deep and play his heart out he could dominate out there and score some goals.   He just forgot how to play with fire and passion since he came to Raleigh.  I've been waiting and saying, "he's gonna come around" but now I'm really getting worried he may not ever be the same player he was in Pittsburgh.   E. Staal is having a typical Lazy slump but will come around and get his 70plus points by seasons end.

 

 

Overall we are an extremely fast team with good defense so far and we showed that during the second and third periods last night.  Our multi millionare stars just forgot how to put the puck in the back of the net.  That is our number one problem, not Peters, not defense, not coaching, its all on the Staals, Semin,Ruutu,Tlusty, right now.

I agree with ya 100%, no way are they even close to earning their pay!!

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I pretty much agree with you, OBXer, but I'm just wondering if loosening up on the guys, UNTIL the lines are set, then tighten up to get to the system you're using might be better than maintaining rigidity throughout. That way, you let linemates learn the little idiosyncrasies of each other before you structure.

 

I'm not sure we aren't stuck with the system. We really need to get our walking wounded back. I don't think the team we have on the ice can play wide open hockey. They might score more goals but would probable give up alot of odd man rushes. the end result would still be a loss.

 

The team is playing hard but I don't see the heart and soul it takes to win.

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I've never been an anti Staal, Staal person.  I think they both have the ability to be great and have been 

 

I agree with ya 100%, no way are they even close to earning their pay!!

 

I have always loved the idea of both bros here and think Eric has had a pretty outsanding career despite going through 3-4slumps every year.  They both have the potential to earn their pay.   For some reason the Staals slump bad and get lazy.    Maybe they both should be benched for a game!  embarass them and make them realize they have to work much harder if they want to play!  When Staals play their hardest good things happen. unfortunately the only play their hardest 50% of the season.  

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I’m not sure what everybody is panicked about.  We are in a pretty good spot in the standings and we are working through some early season issues, just like almost every other team.  We lost on the road to the hottest team in the NHL (Colorado) and on the road to a team we should consider about our equals (Minnesota).  Then we lost to Sydney Freakin Crosby at home.  That is hardly the end of the world! If anybody would have said this is where we would be at the end of October, I would have been pretty happy.  We need to start winning some games, but unlike last year, it is a long season!  Cam missing four weeks is not near as bad as it was last year!

 

On another note, the power play is starting to look pretty good!  A bounce here or there last night and we probably would have gotten a point.  Fleury was REALLY good…and a bit lucky.  Peters was solid, but didn’t get the breaks.  I thought Lindholm had some real chemistry with Semin and Gerbe.  How do you all think this would look?

 

E. Staal / J. Staal / Tlusty

Gerbe/ Lindholm/ Semin

Skinner/ Nash/ Ruutu

Bowman/ Sutter/ Dwyer

 

 

…and seriously Greg, did Jordan run off with your wife or something????

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One thing about the Staal brothers that frustrate me and totally infuriates my wife, is how easy it is for opposing players to knock either one off the puck. For their size they seem to lose a lot of pucks, I have been waiting for Eric to get back to that 100 pt. mark that earned him that big contract. No excuses, no " on pace to " , at 700 games without major injuries, still not achieving the level he set. His best has been two seasons scoring an average of a point per game, so we are paying for at best a player who is  82% of his best so far. Possibly last season would have been different if it was a full season, but I think the slump would have come along anyway.

Edited by winger52

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The Staals on the same line is a waste and a creates a huge defensive hole down the middle.

 

In general I agree, but they do cause some havock together in the offensive zone and if it gets J, E, and the first line jump started, I'd take it as a temporary thing. Even now and then.

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AWACS, my impression last night, and I was at the game, but possibly this is naive, but I thought that the Canes took it to the Pens, but as several have stated, could not get shots off when it counted or score. I also wonder with the rigid structuring that Muller seems to be attempting to instill, with all the line shuffling, if that doesn't make it twice as hard for the players? I mean, once a player learns the "system", wouldn't it be harder if he changes to another line, and then has to learn his line mates' tendencies again? Just food for thought?

Well, then Chuck was misrepresenting...

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The Staals on the same line is a waste and a creates a huge defensive hole down the middle.

 

I generally agree with this, mostly because we don't have other centers who need to go against top lines every night.  Particularly on the road when we don't have the last line change. 

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I have been asking this the entire time Muller has been driving this bus. Is it a bad system??  when everyone gives everything for 60  minutes we can compete however if we take a shift off we will pay for it! See the pens game!! Secondly, low percentage shots from near the blue line do not make scoring chances, the boys have to work for it and they don't, night after night. Thirdly, we need to be bastards to play against, tough gritty bastards, not nice guys this is hockey if you want to be nice go play cricket, tennis, or go swim.... now before everyone jumps in and says how great they have looked this year, I agree with you however, we are still a sub .500 team, same as the past several years and that does not cut it!!

 

GM for a day or so...

Offseason past... I would have dangled skins and ward while we could still get something for them. no trade clauses aside.

Skins another concussion???? upper body injury with MRI's being used to diagnose!! should have got something for him while we could have.

E Staal, not sure he is captain C worthy!!!!!!

 

E Staal, J Staal, Semin, Tlusty, Skins, Got to get it going!! J Staal coasting around playing like *edit*. I would be very embarrassed to see N Gerbe the Canes leading scorer!!!!!!!! thanks goodness we got him or we would be really in the cellar.

Edited by Canesnut

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I like when Gerbe plays on the same line as Jordan Staal, that way I can mentally make sense of the salary that is out there at the time. Gerbe makes a fraction of what Jordan does, Jordan has a fraction of the heart that Gerbe does. Gerbe gives it all every shift, Jordan gives a s*** when the mood strikes him. Gerbe is short, Jordan is tall. It's all about balance.

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Oh you guys, stop making me laugh. Skinner leads the team in points and has played a couple less games. Pfsh. He's had a great start. Can't believe this is coming up again.

 

I'm nervous, I'll say that. It's one month in. However, we've lost both goalies so far and the team is responding in the exact same way last this season as they did last season. One cannot believe it will go through the rest of the season, so it's all about when we turn our game around. I'm hoping by the Islanders game the 7th we're back on track and Khudobin is either back or coming back real soon.

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In general I agree, but they do cause some havock together in the offensive zone and if it gets J, E, and the first line jump started, I'd take it as a temporary thing. Even now and then.

I'm less sure about this now since Lindholm may be able to center the 2d line. J, Lindholm, Nash down the middle is really not that much of a liablility.

Edited by Law-Dawg

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How do you all think this would look?

 

E. Staal / J. Staal / Tlusty

Gerbe/ Lindholm/ Semin

Skinner/ Nash/ Ruutu

Bowman/ Sutter/ Dwyer

I'd change it up a little if we ever get fully healthy...just said it above but I think Lindholm has the chops to play on the 2d line. 

 

Semin J. Staal E. Staal

Gerbe Lindholm Ruutu

Skinner Nash Tlusty

Bowman Sutter Dwyer/Dvorak

 

There is a bit of a catch 22 with this line up in that it may be difficult for us to find a lineup that will challenge the other top lines defensively but at the same time, who is going to match up with those pairings...dynamic scoring on all 3 lines.  Gerbe to the 3rd and Skinner to the 2d could allow for some better defensive responsibility and be a serious energy line.  You want a dynamic line with size, and speed--Semin, Staal Staal...6'2" 209 lbs, 6'4" 220 lbs, 6'4" 205 lbs.  Who matches up with that? 

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With all the high profile injuries and the lack of scoring we may be overlooking how much a player like Dvorak might mean to this system. I don't put him on the same urgency of getting Skinner or Dobby back but he does bring a certain toughness and veteran knowledge to this team. We sometimes overlook the play of the role players to make a difference in the overall play of the team.

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Well, then Chuck was misrepresenting...

Yep, AWACS, that's why i prefaced my comments with the disclaimer that maybe "I was being naive". Maybe the correct term is "homer". I'd never question Chuck or his take on the game, but I honestly thought/hoped that our play was more dominant, however where it really counted, shooting or possessing deep in their zone, we could not get it done. Point I was trying to make tho was that when one completely reworks lines, seems to me that you have to let players adjust to their new linemates and their individual tendencies before insisting on the more rigid, structured play? I'm not proposing in this that play be completely relaxed, but just a tad less restricted.

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I'd change it up a little if we ever get fully healthy...just said it above but I think Lindholm has the chops to play on the 2d line. 

 

Semin J. Staal E. Staal

Gerbe Lindholm Ruutu

Skinner Nash Tlusty

Bowman Sutter Dwyer/Dvorak

 

There is a bit of a catch 22 with this line up in that it may be difficult for us to find a lineup that will challenge the other top lines defensively but at the same time, who is going to match up with those pairings...dynamic scoring on all 3 lines.  Gerbe to the 3rd and Skinner to the 2d could allow for some better defensive responsibility and be a serious energy line.  You want a dynamic line with size, and speed--Semin, Staal Staal...6'2" 209 lbs, 6'4" 220 lbs, 6'4" 205 lbs.  Who matches up with that? 

 

One of the reasons I suggested Semin on the "2nd" line with Lindholm and Gerbe is that they really looked like they had chemistry on the power play.

 

I think that 4th line looks pretty defensively responsible and could potentially play a lot of the tough defensive zone minutes against top lines.  We could actually utilize all 4 lines!

That's because Eric and Jordan have been our number 1 and number 2 centers.

 

I'm not really to sure that Lindholm or Nash would be defensive liabilities...Lindholm looks like he is going to be a stud...if he can stay healthy long enough to get comfortable.  Our power play looked considerably better with him in the lineup!

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What about bumping J down to the third line for a while and bump up nash for a game or two? The third naturally goes against the top lines anyways so he will still be defensively responsible but maybe less pressure? I don't know I am just spit balling here. 

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