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OK, I've sat this one out long enough. Why on Earth would we want Liles? Our defense is no longer the problem. We have solid defenseman playing forward and sitting in the press box. Is Liles not an offense-only kind of dman? Isn't he a guy that no one seems to want? Unless we trade someone currently in the AHL, I just don't get it. 

 

On the shooting percentage, I suggest that is because of about ten thousand clear-in and bad angle shots in the goalies midsection. That shooting pecentage is the result of no discernible offense, not the cause.

 

I do not favor morphing the system for offense at this point, but I am patiently waiting for the offensive side of the promise to come true. As I've mentioned a few times, I started seeing it vs. Colorado and Anaheim, two very good teams, but then 3 shots near the end of period one in St. Louis and no goals outside of the shorties. I'm guessing we purposefully played that "road" game vs. St Louis that way, so fine. We'll see how it develops, but if it doesn't, don't count on staying above even "NHL .500" scoring 1.9 goals per game.

Edited by remkin

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OK, I've sat this one out long enough. Why on Earth would we want Liles? Our defense is no longer the problem. We have solid defenseman playing forward and sitting in the press box. Is Liles not an offense-only kind of dman? Isn't he a guy that no one seems to want? Unless we trade someone currently in the AHL, I just don't get it. 

 

On the shooting percentage, I suggest that is because of about ten thousand clear-in and bad angle shots in the goalies midsection. That shooting pecentage is the result of no discernible offense, not the cause.

 

I do not favor morphing the system for offense at this point, but I am patiently waiting for the offensive side of the promise to come true. As I've mentioned a few times, I started seeing it vs. Colorado and Anaheim, two very good teams, but then 3 shots near the end of period one in St. Louis and no goals outside of the shorties. I'm guessing we purposefully played that "road" game vs. St Louis that way, so fine. We'll see how it develops, but if it doesn't, don't count on staying above even "NHL .500" scoring 1.9 goals per game.

Totally agree...I was putting out the only plausible scenario I could come up with. 

 

I'm glad to see Bowman getting a shot at the top line.  Tlusty has been a pretty major disappointment thus far (in a contract year, too) he's more than come back down to Earth while Bowman has been playing with the speed and hustle we saw from Tlusty last year.  Glad he's getting a shot. In terms of scoring, I really thought Tlusty was the lynchpin of the 1st line last year as his play really freed up Staal and Semin.  This year, he's been a non-factor and we need someone to step up on that wing. 

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rem, i totally agree with your point about Liles. The only thing that I can see is that JR has seemed to have had a "man crush" on the guy for years! That is one of the major faults I have seen in Rutherford for many years, and that is he gets this locked in opinion and never seems to evolve it. That is the reason that I believe underlies his obvious propensity to "recycle" players that drives everyone nuts on here. JMHO.

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Seeing that Cam is starting tonight! I just don't see throwing him to the wolves so quickly, but I guess that we'll know pretty quickly if his groin will hold up? Guess he has to start somewhere. Oh well!

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Looks like we've gone full circle from one of the best first lines in hockey to no first line again. 

 

I guess we need to get into another defensive lock-down game, and hope for secondary scoring. 

 

The coach sending Tlusty to line 4 is, I guess a sort of message that he may be taking some blame for things. Personally, I think Semin's play has been off (lots of whiffs and lost pucks and overstaying shifts, etc) and E. has been off to his classic slow start. 

 

Whatever it's been, that first line not even close to living up to expectations is the major reason we are not scoring. Those are our first unit PP guys too, and we all know how that's been going.

 

As much as Semin has been off, we'll likely struggle more with him out.

 

I am hoping (not predicting) that Tripp is more right about Ruutu than Coastal. But if he doesn't start showing it soon….

Edited by remkin

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OK, I've sat this one out long enough. Why on Earth would we want Liles? Our defense is no longer the problem. We have solid defenseman playing forward and sitting in the press box. Is Liles not an offense-only kind of dman? Isn't he a guy that no one seems to want? Unless we trade someone currently in the AHL, I just don't get it. 

I think you hit on some very valid points.  I also see Liles as an offensive oriented D-man.  But given our offensive drought, might not another D-man who can effectively move the puck help the O (i.e., more of what Murphy adds to the team above our other D-men)?  IF the Canes are interested in him, it may be more from an offensive oriented perspective than a defensive one. 

 

I suspect that most of the lack of interest in Liles has to do with his contract (as well as why the Leafs can't fit him on their roster; remember, they were scrapping to get under the cap).  If the Leafs ate enough of it, I suspect that interest would pick up.  IF we're talking to Toronto, I bet salary retention is a big part of the discussion.

 

I don't see us including a 25 year old Bellemore who's only making $600k as part of a package.  I'm thinking any move would involve also moving Gleason or Ruutu for salary relief (whether to the Leafs or another team).

 

I'm not saying I'm in favor of adding Liles (although it would be interesting to see if that might spark the O), just pointing out what I think the organization's perspective might be IF they truely are interested.  

Edited by LakeLivin

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So now Ruutu and Gleason are both salary dumps? 

 

We've nursed Ruutu along this long, I will be unpopular perhaps, but we need to get him back somewhat for him to have value. Same w/ Gleason. Get them back to solid NHL play, then trade them if we must. But salary dumping two heart and soul guys who happen to have NTC's while they are at their lowest value ever?

 

I could not bear to see these guys get picked up for nothing only to play well soon after. Too soon to give up on them in my opinion. 

 

Now, IF either could fetch value: say Gleason and/or Ruutu to Edmonton for some offense….that would be different. But for Liles? That would be constant vacillating between offensive and defensive defensemen. I suppose if he'd help on the PP….I just don't see it.

Edited by remkin

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So now Ruutu and Gleason are both salary dumps? 

 

We've nursed Ruutu along this long, I will be unpopular perhaps, but we need to get him back somewhat for him to have value. Same w/ Gleason. Get them back to solid NHL play, then trade them if we must. But salary dumping two heart and soul guys who happen to have NTC's while they are at their lowest value ever?

 

I could not bear to see these guys get picked up for nothing only to play well soon after. Too soon to give up on them in my opinion. 

 

Now, IF either could fetch value: say Gleason and/or Ruutu to Edmonton for some offense….that would be different. But for Liles? That would be constant vacillating between offensive and defensive defensemen. I suppose if he'd help on the PP….I just don't see it.

I agree with your points which is why I said salary relief rather than salary dump.  The difference to me is that with relief we'd get a return, a dump is just that.  Again, not saying that's what we should be doing, but if the rumors are true, I suspect those are the lines of thought.

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I wouldent bank on us getting Liles. Wasent he just on Waivers and cleared? I assume we could have picked him up then if that were the case. Hope Cam does well tonight fingers crossed.

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I wouldent bank on us getting Liles. Wasent he just on Waivers and cleared? I assume we could have picked him up then if that were the case. Hope Cam does well tonight fingers crossed.

Liles won't get picked up on waivers because doing so would require a team to pay his full contract.  For Toronto to move Liles (which is definitely in their best interest) they'll have to retain a big portion of his salary.  But that would still be a lot cheaper than a buyout for them.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Liles won't get picked up on waivers because doing so would require a team to pay his full contract.  For Toronto to move Liles (which is definitely in their best interest) they'll have to retain a big portion of his salary.  But that would still be a lot cheaper than a buyout for them.

 

Ah forgot about that bit of the Waivers process. Thanks for the heads up. Either way I still hope/think we wont make a move for him.

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I honestly have no opinion on Liles.  On the one hand, I wouldn't give up much of anything for him nor pay anywhere near his full contract price.  On the other hand, depending on how much $ Toronto is willing to retain, he could turn out to be a steal for some team.  My impression is that he'd add a bit of "Murphy" as far as offense from a D-man.  On the other hand, he's had several concussions over the past few years which is worrisome.

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Oh, that reminds me of some bad news: I just learned that even though Peters was an emergency recall, because he's played in 10 games he's subject to waivers if we send him back down (as per the new CBA) :facepalm2:

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Oh, that reminds me of some bad news: I just learned that even though Peters was an emergency recall, because he's played in 10 games he's subject to waivers if we send him back down (as per the new CBA) :facepalm2:

Petey has played so well, he has probably generated some trade value. So he may not clear waivers.

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The JM Liles rumor was posted by Eklund so I would say it's highly unlikely!  That guy is less accurate that the magic 8-ball!

 

For example: this is his most recent rumor, "*Blues, Avalanche and Ducks are teams who are most likely to go after Ryan Miller as of this point. I would put St. Louis a little ahead of that group."

Are those teams not all three stacked in goal?  The Blues and Ducks are so stacked that they have NHL caliber goalies in the AHL waiting for a shot.  The Aves tandum has been lights out! 

 

I think Eklund is smoking crack!

Edited by cclifford10

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I took a peak at the team stats through 21 games, roughly 1\4 into the season.

 

Offensive stats:

 

Goals\Game                              1.86       Rank - 28th

ES Goals For\Against                0.70       Rank - 27th

PP%                                          12.5        Rank - 25th

Total PP Time                        127:07        Rank - 4th

Shots\Game                                 29        Rank - 25th

 

Defensive stats:

 

Goals Against\Game                 2.67        Rank - 17th

PK%                                          79.7        Rank - 22nd

Shots Against\Game                 30.8         Rank - 18th

 

Other Stats:

 

Win% When Outshooting           .714       Rank - 2nd

Win% When Outshot                  .182       Rank - 29th

Faceoff%                                     51.0       Rank - 13th

 

A few things that stick out to me:

 

1.  When we don't generate shots at the level of our opponent, our ability to win is almost dead last in the league.  However, when we do on occasion, out shoot the other team, our win% is second in the league.  Too bad we've only out shot the other team 5 times out of 21 games.

 

2.  We all know how terrible the PP has been (Rank 25th), but in the context of total PP time, we are really worse than terrible, considering we've had the 4th most PP time in the league.

 

3.  Through 10 games, our PK% was quite decent, coming in at 10th in the league at that time, but since then, our PK% has digressed to 22nd in the league.  Trying to figure out what happened there.

 

I don't know if it shows up in the stats or not, or if it even matters really, through 1\4 of the season, but I just have a hard time hanging on to the belief that somehow magically we are going to start moving the puck out of our own end effectively, and thus generate offense, the way the team is currently structured, particularly on the back end.

 

The team defense has been okay clearing away rebounds, and generally clearing the front of the net.  But passing the puck to an open man and turning around and going the other way remains elusive.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Coastal: excellent observations.  Those are stats we can use.  I hate to say it, but they are very distressing.

 

Amazingly, the Canes are still "in the mix."  However, they are slipping now and will fade fast with this kind of continued trend. 

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Good stuff Coastal. Can't imagine the coaching staff isn't talking about the same stuff.

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. . .

1)  Through 10 games, our PK% was quite decent, coming in at 10th in the league at that time, but since then, our PK% has digressed to 22nd in the league.  Trying to figure out what happened there.

 

2) I don't know if it shows up in the stats or not, or if it even matters really, through 1\4 of the season, but I just have a hard time hanging on to the belief that somehow magically we are going to start moving the puck out of our own end effectively, and thus generate offense, the way the team is currently structured, particularly on the back end. The team defense has been okay clearing away rebounds, and generally clearing the front of the net.  But passing the puck to an open man and turning around and going the other way remains elusive.

Good observations.  Some further thought:

1) Game 10 is when Ward went down and Peters stepped in (and ultimately up).  This could be coincidental.  As we all know, It's a mistake to confuse correlation with causation.  I'm not claiming Peters is at fault for the decline in the numbers. But that's something we may want to examine further as our "regular" goalies return to the net.  

 

2) If management is looking at Liles, I'd bet this is the reason.  He's an excellent puck mover.

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I have a concern JR has a highlight reel of Liles from 2006 and is hoping he's still that same player today. The man hasn't posted a + in years, if you're that great at putting up points you'd think you could finish a few years with a + rating.

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NHL Network says that Coach Muller has indicated that Semin is out indefinitely with a concussion.  Of all the things to hear today, that was not what we needed.  What now?  Seriously, with all of the trade talks going on these boards, who do we really have, that we would want to part with, that has trade value?  We have a lot of guys that are making more than they should, with NTC's, who can't score to save their life and are prone to injury.  Other then the Hurricanes, is there any other team out there that thinks this is a good deal?  Aside from the deal that JR pulled on Toronto with Kaberle, that was pure luck, or JR knew something on their GM he didn't want told.  I just don't see us being in the game to make many trades.  God help us if Peters has to go, history has shown it won't be long before we need another back up Goalie.  We certainly don't need to trade draft picks because our depth is not exactly worthy of bragging right now.  Somebody tell me the answer so I can feel better about it....PLEASE!!

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