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I'm not saying that I want to see Skinner traded, nor am I trying to start trade rumors. What I am saying is that JR is going to have to find the money somewhere for that top 4 guy and he has to think of paying Faulk. JR tried to build the team around forwards, Ward (********-**-****), and a bargain basement defense. I think he finally sees that will not work in the current NHL, especially in our new division.

 

I understand your point. Skinner has been mentioned as a possible trade since last season and not only on this board. If we trade a top 6 Skinner is probable the candidate. He should bring a nice return. I just don't think we are trading a top 6.

 

My guess is we are looking for a 2.5 to 3 million dollar D-man. We will resign Bellemore but not MAB. Smurf is the wild card and Joni's health is still an unknown. McBain is the logical trade candidate IMO and some Chex could go too. It will be tight but I think with most the FA's leaving we will be able to accomplish our goal. Trades could come during the season but thats what I think we do in the off-season.

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I just don't believe we are trading Skinner. I understand that he has the value in a big deal but  I don't think JR is looking for the "BIG" deal. I think we want a steady and proven top 4 D-man but not a headline grabbing elite Dman.  Skinner at times last year looked like he was finding his game again. He is too young and too talented to give up on.

 

No one also believed we would trade Sutter. I don't think JR is actively searching to move Skinner but we need a top 2 pairing defenseman (not just top 4, as Gleason and Pits are arguably second pairing material with Faulk being first,) and if that means moving Skinner then he will. Of course, any trade involving Skinner is probably going to happen at the draft after we make our first round draft pick, that way we know for sure if he's expendable or not based on who we draft.

 

As far as buyouts go, I definitely see us buying out Joni next season if he doesn't stay healthy, but I'm not sure who else would be bought out. Where as moving Skinner would free up a lot of salary and give us more room for a top 2 d-man alongside extending Tlusty and Faulk. JR's over paying of players has finally caught up to him and regardless of what happens it's something that he's going to have to deal with, starting with this off season.

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I understand your point. Skinner has been mentioned as a possible trade since last season and not only on this board. If we trade a top 6 Skinner is probable the candidate. He should bring a nice return. I just don't think we are trading a top 6.

My guess is we are looking for a 2.5 to 3 million dollar D-man. We will resign Bellemore but not MAB. Smurf is the wild card and Joni's health is still an unknown. McBain is the logical trade candidate IMO and some Chex could go too. It will be tight but I think with most the FA's leaving we will be able to accomplish our goal. Trades could come during the season but thats what I think we do in the off-season.

So you think JR will continue to nibble around the edges and not retool the defense...yet again?

JR has about $7M in cap space for next year and at a minimum has to sigh 2 forwards, 1 d-man, and a back up goalie not named Peters. A number 5 pick is going to eat up almost quarter of that. Moving McBain would free up close to $2M. The thing is that JR said he wants a couple of veteran d-men to round out the squad. Veteran top 4 guys are probably going to be north of your $3M range.

I think he needs to move one significant salary out to make it work. There has been chatter before about Ruutu, but Muller (and I) wants to see the Canes get tougher to play against. Moving Ruutu doesn't help there.

Edited by super_dave_1

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I don't understand you guys. We finally draft an elite forward and three years later the trade rumors begin. I understand he's moveable, but JR just signed this kid to an extension. Everyone seems to ignore the fact we have two compliance buyouts, and unless JR wants to make a stupid trade (a la losing Skinner or Tlusty + McBain) he may have to use one on someone, like say Pitkanen or Ruutu. 

 

Skinner is too young to value correctly, plus he has too much upside still even with his setbacks (he's not the first player to have setbacks by the way). Any deal involving him may haunt the franchise for the foreseeable future. 

 

Same thing with Tlusty. This guy is breaking out into a potential 40g guy, perfect compliment to Semin and Staal. No way JR trades Tlusty. 

 

Another thing I don't get is why everyone expects McBain is unmovable unless he's packaged with Tlusty. He has value, although it's not huge, it's there and people will make a real hockey trade for him if the situation is right. We're going to have to move some defensemen if we expect to bring up Murphy, Bellemore, and acquire at least one new defenseman. 

 

Another thing most fans do is over exaggerate our weaknesses. Yes our defense is weak, but we were one of the better teams in the east with LAST YEARS DEFENSE when Ward was healthy. Imagine just a slight improvement on the backend with all the same forwards PLUS fifth overall. Not to mention we wont have plugs like Brent or LaRose on the roster anymore, and those spots will go to prospects/young guys in the system like they should have all along. And Corvo and Sanguinetti are walking, that's improving our defense without even adding anyone yet.

 

Plus theres' the chance we sign a better backup goalie than Ellis. And Ellis was our best backup for a long time.

 

You have to give to get, but in JR's case that's exactly why he won't make a trade involving Skinner or Tlusty. There's a free agency coming up that'll be pretty different with compliance buyouts coming. JR's not moving them unless it's a legit top pairing dman, but no one's stupid enough to trade one to us for Skinner. A top pairing dman is worth more to a team than a young superstar offensive minded player. This is why I understand the feeling of trading them, but like I said, no one's moving their top pairing dman, not for Skinner or Tlusty. 

 

I'll eat crow if it does happen, but I think we have better chances getting JR to bring back the old jerseys.

First, I would never advocate trading Skinner or Tlusty, except for a top pairing d-man; and then only if we draft Nich or Barkov. It's nothing against Skinner, except he is worth so much!! I'm not looking at it as a cap issue but it would be close to a cap wash for a high-end d-man. The Canes have nobody else of that value, not named Staal or Semin.

 

If yesterday's The Fourth Period article is correct, you can take heart in that JR apparently agrees with you, as far as going after Yandle. He's not willing to move a top young asset (ie: Skinner) like Philly's Couturier or Schenn.

 

As for McBain, you are not going to get a "true" top 4 d-man for him alone. At least that's my take and is reflected in my earlier posts. He has a lot of offensive upside (except I think he has trouble keeping the puck in the o-zone from the point) but he's a defensive liability, making bad or late decisions.

 

Although I do think JR will have to pay about $4M for a 2nd pairing d-man, I think you are right in that he will never get a top d-man.

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So you think JR will continue to nibble around the edges and not retool the defense...yet again?

JR has about $7M in cap space for next year and at a minimum has to sigh 2 forwards, 1 d-man, and a back up goalie not named Peters. A number 5 pick is going to eat up almost quarter of that. Moving McBain would free up close to $2M. The thing is that JR said he wants a couple of veteran d-men to round out the squad. Veteran top 4 guys are probably going to be north of your $3M range.

 

JR knows he needs to make a move on the backend, but more for depth purposes. That's why he's saying he wants a second pairing guy and not a top pairing guy. He likes Pitkanen, Gleason, Faulk, and Harrison. Murphy and Bellemore are most likely going to see some time on the roster. We take out Corvo, Sanguinetti, and possibly trade McBain while adding that one top-4 guy, and you got a pretty new looking defense. It's not what the fans are calling for, but it's the most attention our defense is getting in a long time. And in a year or two, depending on our fifth overall and the performances of our forwards, we will find someone who's actually expendable and there's your trade candidate to bring in a top pairing dman if need be.

 

I find it funny people are still calling Ward average-at-best considering it was blazingly obvious this team fell apart without him. It's easy for a goalie to look worse than they are with a weaker defense, just like it's easy for a goalie to look better than they are with a stronger defense. 

 

Bottom line to me about the defense this offseason is this: JR is acquiring a top-4 dman. One, that isn't going to cost 5 mill per. The ELC from our fifth overall may be getting juicy bonuses, but his cap hit stays at the determined amount on his ELC, not including the bonuses. A top-4 dman is going to be around 2.5 - 3 million. We can't base value on previous price tags, the cap moved down again so we're going to see change in the free agency a la 2005. (JR has stated he would like a vet, but he also stated he'd look at young guys on the rise) So there's about 4 million gone. McBain moving will free up another ~2 million, leaving us with another 4 million to play around with. That's enough for either a decent third line center, or a couple big, strong, and tough wingers to build our bottom nine around. So yeah. Not to mention JR is still JR and will most likely search the bargain bin.

 

And where does it say we're trading for this top-4. I feel like many of you are assuming we are. Guys, we haven't even seen who's getting bought out yet. And there's several worthy candidates for JR to be targeting in the free agency as it is. As far as trading McBain, I didn't mean we'd trade him for defense. That's not really likely anyways, teams trade out of necessity, and trading a dman for a dman doesn't make much sense. He'd probably bring in a solid bottom nine forward with experience, and at the very least a decent pick.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Isles trade Streit to Flyers...http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=673710&navid=nhl:topheads

 

Not what we were really looking for IMO but if/when a deal is signed, we'll have a better idea of how the market is going to look. 

The market is going to look expensive. Look at Gonchar and Josi for example. Bet Streit gets more than $5M per year for 3 or 4 years if Gonchar got $5M per year.

 

If Philly signs Streit, I wonder if they will still pursue a trade for Yandle?

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JR knows he needs to make a move on the backend, but more for depth purposes. That's why he's saying he wants a second pairing guy and not a top pairing guy. He likes Pitkanen, Gleason, Faulk, and Harrison. Murphy and Bellemore are most likely going to see some time on the roster. We take out Corvo, Sanguinetti, and possibly trade McBain while adding that one top-4 guy, and you got a pretty new looking defense. It's not what the fans are calling for, but it's the most attention our defense is getting in a long time. And in a year or two, depending on our fifth overall and the performances of our forwards, we will find someone who's actually expendable and there's your trade candidate to bring in a top pairing dman if need be. But like I said earlier which you convienetly

 

A top-4 dman is going to be around 2.5 - 3 million. We can't base value on previous price tags, the cap moved down again so we're going to see change in the free agency a la 2005.

 

And where does it say we're trading for this top-4. I feel like many of you are assuming we are. Guys, we haven't even seen who's getting bought out yet. And there's several worthy candidates for JR to be targeting in the free agency as it is.

Don't remember JR including Harrison in his defensive core of Gleason, Pits, and Faulk, so I thought he may be replaceable for the right d-man FA. So far it doesn't look like salaries are being compressed for UFA's that's why I think you are going to be looking at $4M+ for a good 2nd pairing. $2.5-3M will probably get you a marginal 2nd pairing guy (4th or 5th on the depth chart).

 

This is not a strong UFA d-group. So to get a top guy it will have to be through a trade. If JR doesn't want a top guy, he can pick from the couple on the UFA list or somebody's compliance discards.

Edited by Bill_B

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Don't remember JR including Harrison in his defensive core or Gleason, Pits, and Faulk, so I thought he may be replaceable for the right d-man FA. So far it doesn't look like salaries are being compressed for UFA's that's why I think you are going to be looking at $4M+ for a good 2nd pairing. $2.5-3M will probably get you a marginal 2nd pairing guy (4th or 5th on the depth chart).

 

This is not a strong UFA d-group. So to get a top guy it will have to be through a trade. If JR doesn't want a top guy, he can pick from the couple on the UFA list or somebody's compliance discards.

I think you mean to say of not or. I included Harrison because he's the only big shutdown dman we got right now. Bellemore will change that though.

 

O'Byrne is the type of guy I see JR targeting if he goes the younger route, who made 1.8 last year and I don't see a justifiable raise over 1 million for him.

 

Someone show me where JR says he's actively targeting a top pairing dman. He's looking for a second pairing guy, and they are going to be available this free agency. Not to mention once the teams able to afford these big contracts under the new cap get who they want or need and after all that free money is invested, the prices are going to drop. Yes, most of the more notable guys will be swept up, but there will still be solid guys remaining. Besides, those are the kind of guys JR usually go for, the less notable but still solid guys.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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I think you mean to say of not or. I included Harrison because he's the only big shutdown dman we got right now. Bellemore will change that though.

 

O'Byrne is the type of guy I see JR targeting if he goes the younger route, who made 1.8 last year and I don't see a justifiable raise over 1 million for him.

 

Someone show me where JR says he's actively targeting a top pairing dman. He's looking for a second pairing guy, and they are going to be available this free agency. Not to mention once the teams able to afford these big contracts under the new cap get who they want or need and after all that free money is invested, the prices are going to drop. Yes, most of the more notable guys will be swept up, but there will still be solid guys remaining. Besides, those are the kind of guys JR usually go for, the less notable but still solid guys.

You're right, I meant "of" (fat fingers). I like O'Byrne too and think he would be a great physical asset but as somebody posted yesterday, he's not a top 4 guy....more of a Harrison replacement.

 

What I heard JR say was a top 4 guy, not a top pairing or a 2nd pairing. He may have said something else that I missed (wouldn't be the 1st time!). So that let me/us hope for real defensive improvement and not just a new tube of lipstick. It would be nice to get our shots against below 30 again.

 

This is a weak UFA d-man class. So after wating until August, JR will probably end up with a veteran in his mid to late 30's, that is really at a 4th or 5th NHL d-man level in their careers....did somebody say Joe Corvo or Aaron Ward.

Edited by Bill_B

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I think our defense would be alright for this upcoming season if we only brought in 1 top 4 guy.  And we don't need to move Skins for the right vet.  Moving McBain would clear up enough cap to get us a solid vet and still fill the other holes.

 

Gleason - Faulk (were a solid combo when paired together)

Pitkanen - new guy

Harrison - Bellemore/Murphy

 

The only thing that worries me in this situation is depth/health.  Can't really predict how Joni will be after that heel injury. If one of them goes down, we would be in trouble again.  We could probably get MAB to stick around for depth (which would also allow Murphy some time in Charlotte). 

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Ah I see, when I hear top 4 dman I hear second pairing guy, but you're interpreting it as anyone who fits in the top four, first pairing included. That makes sense then. 

 

And yes, I think we need to focus on depth like Faulker just said. I'd rather bring in a new guy for depth purposes that isn't as tiny as MAB and can actually be out there 5 on 5 if need be without guaranteeing the other team a goal.

 

And the Streit to Philly deal, even if Philly signs Streit and moves on from Yandle, Phoenix still doesn't want to move him unless it's convincing offer. And Detroit probably has a better crop of  available guys than we do. 

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I hope we see Rask impress early in Charlotte and eventually coming up to play with the Canes during the season.  Would be huge.

Edited by TheFaulker

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I just went to the Kings' forum to see if I could find any news on Scuderi and there isn't much talk about him resigning.  Most guys seem to be assuming he won't be on the team next season.  This is the guy I really want.  He would be a great fit beside Joni on the 2nd defensive line.

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If JR doesn't clear out some cash with a forward, he will be nibbling around the edges again. Next summer, he is going to have to pay Faulk and Tlusty. He might do something and get thru this year, but it will be needed next summer if he waits.

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What could u get for piks??? Hes so injury prone, but hes the guy we need when  healthy... im   sooooooo  confused.. :)
 

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This defense does not need nibbling. This defense needs at least a solid restructure. Just listening to NHL on XM and Boston and Chicago both with huge PK numbers and great GAA. Is there one guy in the league with as much impact on a game as Chara? The things on this team that are average at best are our bottom 6 and our defense.

 

We actually DO need a top pair dman. Other than Faulk's potential, would you put any of our dmen in the top 60 in the league? That's top pair. We arguably have a stud in goal, and multiple studs up front. But other than a highly skilled Faulk who do we have on defense?

 

At LEAST we need a top 4 guy who would be higher if one just looked at shut down numbers. 

 

My problem is not just cap, but how do we get that guy? Because if we don't, Nich won't matter. Just cannot win with a weak defense in this league. This IS a weak FA pool, but also there are other teams trying to get what guys are available. The buy out cap stuff is fine, but teams are not going to generally cut loose there best underpaid guys for us to scoop up, and if they do 29 other teams will be looking to scoop them also. 

 

If we pick a forward at #5 then the draft is not going to give us an NHL ready dman. 

 

So where do we get a top 4 dman if we don't make a trade? 

 

I hope we can but I don't see it. 

 

I see more nibbling. In that case Nich and Skinner better combine for 70 goals.

 

Now if we can package some prospects and McBain and maybe our second rounder and get a really solid guy great. Just not sure that can happen.

 

So how do we do it?

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If JR doesn't clear out some cash with a forward, he will be nibbling around the edges again. Next summer, he is going to have to pay Faulk and Tlusty. He might do something and get thru this year, but it will be needed next summer if he waits.

This is what I'm thinking. It'll be smarter to wait a year if you're really hung up on trading Skinner out of all your forwards. Gives him a year to prove his worth and that he wants to stay, while also evaluating the play of our fifth overall. But next year I imagine some other UFA's will walk, and we'll see some more breathing space. Joni is on his last year if I recall correctly, which makes me understand the idea of not buying Joni out a little more. Also means a lot of space for resigning Tlusty and Faulk could come out of that.

 

Watching the NHL network and right now they are showing game 2 of the Hurricanes - Devils Semifinals. Man we did have a real good team that year. Everyone bought into that system and it showed. Especially in the post-season. Also our defense was something. You can see the presence players like Weight, Recchi, Brind'Amour, and Wesley brought when they were on the ice. I think we need some real veterans. Badly.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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I just went to the Kings' forum to see if I could find any news on Scuderi and there isn't much talk about him resigning.  Most guys seem to be assuming he won't be on the team next season.  This is the guy I really want.  He would be a great fit beside Joni on the 2nd defensive line.

Sucka...Scuderi sounds like your guy. He would be a very good addition, a solid shutdown veteran to put with Pits. Let's hope LA management is less interested in re-signing him, like the LA fans. Although Scuderi said yesterday, he'd like to stay in Southern California.

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Who do you guys think JR has overpaid?  I've been looking through contracts and I don't really think he's done a bad job with contracts.  I kinda think player development is more of a problem than money issues.  The talent on this team seems very top heavy and that's due, in part, to our younger guys not stepping up like expected.

 

Looking at the 2 teams in the finals this year, they have several more impact players that came up threw their systems than we do.  It's a lot easier to build your team that way rather than through trades and FA.

Edited by TheFaulker

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I think we have several overpaid players but we're in Carolina, haven't been to the playoffs since 09 you gotta entice your guys to stay somehow and throwing money and NTC's at them does the trick.

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Our biggest trade asset right now is our number 5 pick.  I know we want Nich or Barkov but as rem pointed out what good is Nich if we don't fix the defense. Skinner was a #1 pick and still shows great promise to live up to our expectations, Tlusty is so important  to the first line he would be difficult to replace. I don't think we are going to trade any of the other top 6. Ruutu could come into play later if our season is a bust.

 

On defense Joni can't be traded or bought out while he is hurt. Gleason is the kind of player we want so why trade him. Harrison is a possibility but although not perfect he fits the role of 3rd pair perfectly. McBain still has so much promise IMO but I think his time with us is over. IMO he is a likely trade combined with a prospect and a pick.

 

McBain + Prospect + 1st round pick exchange for a top D and later 1st rounder.  McBain + Prospect could get you that veteran solid top D-man.  You would need to find a trade partner  that either wanted the #5 pick or a team that needs to dump salary.

 

On Smurf. I think he is NHL ready.

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