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With the goaltender talk heating up again for obvious reasons, I'd like to ask a pretty simple question: for those who regularly blame and hate on Cam Ward, do you actually watch the goals that we score on other goaltenders across the league? There's no difference. Our skaters aren't scoring more skillful goals. They're getting tips, screens, lucky rebounds, and fluke goals. This is the nature of the NHL and happens in EVERY game. Stop living in a bubble and acting like Cam Ward is the only goaltender who gets beat from point blank by Taylor Hall, RNH, when a guy (in this case Joensuu) is ALONE in front of the net or back door on a power play. Maybe he stops Yakupov, but let's not forget he's a first overall pick, natural goal scorer. He walked in alone, used Hainsey as a partial screen and got a hard, fast shot off as soon as the pass got to his stick. There's nothing soft about that goal other than Hainsey not covering him better. 

 

When Skinner or one of the Staals scores a goal like these, it's because they were "good," when one happens to us it's because whoever was in goal is "bad." 

 

With that out of the way, I agree that Cam Ward has work to do to find consistency. It's obvious he's fighting it, but trading him is not the answer, and will most likely not happen unless there's a really good hockey deal to be made. 

Edited by Gejustin

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This trading Cam thing really is interesting, with no easy answer.  If you look at this season (same team in front of them all), Peters is doing a much better job than Ward.  BUT, we do have three goalies and having that kind of assets should be looked at carefully for a team that needs to 'spend'.  

 

Trading Ward would give us the most back.  Perhaps a now player and a high round draft pick in return.  Getting rid of his salary would give us a lot more cap room.  BUT, scary to continue into the future without a bonafide number 1 goalie and no one in the system isn't it?

 

Khodobin and Peters are UFAs at the end of the year and can get us something in return without 'losing' them next year to another team who signs them and we get nothing.  The thing is, really, we won't get much in return for them because they are have no history of being number 1s and really don't have much of a sample space.

 

What to do what to do?  I really don't think it makes sense to have 3 goalies (since we can't bring one down and lose them for nothing to waivers).  The idea of losing Ward seems RELLY scary but this team right now is going no where fast and perhaps a good idea.  It also may be the first step into becoming a Flyers franchise who searches desperately to find a true number 1 goalie.

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Well I'm sure that if we did trade Cam there would be a couple of tasty contracts offered to Peters and Khudo.

 

Still I completely agree that one major risk is that neither Khudobin or Peters has been proven over enough games and if both falter..look out below. Also, this would be a MAJOR shake up almost like trading Eric. That is also risky when the team is playing overall pretty well.

 

If Forslund is to be belived (old comments) there are more than a handful of teams that would be keenly interested in Ward.

 

Maybe if things really start to unravel and his game stays inconsistent, but his salary will be less of an issue as the cap goes up, so it's more about the play, and I would not move him now. 10 games from now when he's found his game this conversation might just dry up.

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This trading Cam thing really is interesting, with no easy answer.  If you look at this season (same team in front of them all), Peters is doing a much better job than Ward.  BUT, we do have three goalies and having that kind of assets should be looked at carefully for a team that needs to 'spend'.  

 

Trading Ward would give us the most back.  Perhaps a now player and a high round draft pick in return.  Getting rid of his salary would give us a lot more cap room.  BUT, scary to continue into the future without a bonafide number 1 goalie and no one in the system isn't it?

 

Khodobin and Peters are UFAs at the end of the year and can get us something in return without 'losing' them next year to another team who signs them and we get nothing.  The thing is, really, we won't get much in return for them because they are have no history of being number 1s and really don't have much of a sample space.

 

What to do what to do?  I really don't think it makes sense to have 3 goalies (since we can't bring one down and lose them for nothing to waivers).  The idea of losing Ward seems RELLY scary but this team right now is going no where fast and perhaps a good idea.  It also may be the first step into becoming a Flyers franchise who searches desperately to find a true number 1 goalie.

 

The only thing I disagree with is that the team is going nowhere fast. We're still technically in a playoff spot. Yeah the team isn't doing as well all want it to, but we're certainly hanging in there despite a massive number of injuries. The team also appears to be getting better. The problem is consistency. It's hard to know which team will show up from period to period. Last night's first period team? Or the third period team? Cam Ward is the same way. Are we going to get top 2 saves of the week Cam Ward or the more recent Ward who seems to lack confidence? The team as a whole just needs to find some balance. We've played games where we were rockstars in goal and on defense but can't get a goal and games like last night where we can't keep a beach ball out of our defensive zone/goal but we can get big goals.

 

Trading Ward is just not worth the risk right now, the team isn't down and out yet. 

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Ward should be kept until the trade deadline(I know this creates complications with the 3 goalie thing but right now neither Peters or Khoud have proven themselves to be able to win for a whole season, just a couple good stretches by both of them so far)..  Ward plays best when he has long healthy stretches of hockey and is showing glimpses of his best in the past several games since he's been back. Can't win em all and other teams will score goals, doesn't mean trade the goalie who got scored on every night.   I feel like he's almost there and will ultimately end up being loved again by January as long as he stays healthy.  Ward is consistent when the team in front of him is consistent  and he will steal games even when the team in front of him hangs him out to dry.  He will also have bad nights, as long as its not for long stretches than it is only normal when you have a have a team picked to finsih second to last.   He hasn't had a solid stretch yet this year, he was good in the beginning, got injured, came back and has been in and out and his play has been up and down. Lets also remember that the Canes just started scoring goals about 2 weeks ago.  Lets see him on a true stretch here and I bet he will look like a number one goalie.   

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For some unknown reason, the team seems to be playing better for Peters. That being said, I would start Cam against the Flames. If he plays poorly, and Peters plays well against Phoenix, I would make Peters the #1 goalie. I know Cam is an established NHL goalie, but,at least now, Peters is giving them the best chance to win. I don't know if they trade Cam, or just be patient and see if he can regain his form. I really like Cam, but he has to start winning some games.

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He will be a welcome return. After the way Muller was reshuffling the lines last night I don't think he will have a problem fitting him in. But yes someone has to move and someone has to sit.

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OK, so 10 years ago it seemed the norm was to play one goalie 64 games and the back up 18.  Then in recent years it was more like 50 - 30.

 

What the heck, maybe we can send Westie out to the the netherlands and run three goalies and try 40-22-20?

 

I dunno.  Maybe I'm drunk.  Crazy ideas here.

 

P.S. Saw Westbrook at a casual restaraunt recently.  He and his wife were very nice..  Just not sure he has any place on his team.  Yet there is this weird Cower dynamic to the team.  Is he a minority investor or something?  Just a random thought.  Really like the guy and Cower (even though I dislike the Steelers greatly).  But now I'm randomly wandering.  Sorry.  Carry on...

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OK, so 10 years ago it seemed the norm was to play one goalie 64 games and the back up 18.  Then in recent years it was more like 50 - 30.

 

What the heck, maybe we can send Westie out to the the netherlands and run three goalies and try 40-22-20?

 

I dunno.  Maybe I'm drunk.  Crazy ideas here.

 

P.S. Saw Westbrook at a casual restaraunt recently.  He and his wife were very nice..  Just not sure he has any place on his team.  Yet there is this weird Cower dynamic to the team.  Is he a minority investor or something?  Just a random thought.  Really like the guy and Cower (even though I dislike the Steelers greatly).  But now I'm randomly wandering.  Sorry.  Carry on...

 

I'll have what you're having ;)

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I'll have what you're having ;)

Ha ha.  Just saying that playing 3 goalies for a while is crazy.  Drunken crazy.  Heard Hemmingway's brilliance was due to it, so maybe it will work.  JR and Kirk, we lift a glass in toast!  We love all 3 goalies.  Make it work!

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Is it okay around here to just be entertained by the Metro Divison?

 

This is setting up to be "playoffs" for 3 months for likely only 2 spots.

 

Third line center, one more d-man.  That's what I want for Christmas.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Is it okay around here to just be entertained by the Metro Divison?

 

Remember last summer when we were concerned about being in the 'tough new metro division'.  Who would have guessed it would turn out to be the weakest one and they cant blame it on the southeast div. teams because two of them are in the top 3 of the division.

 

Wow, Buffalo only has 16 points?  Is this their worst season ever?

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I'm just sayin' it's going to likely be a big swing of emotions from one game to the next for a while, maybe months.

 

The group around here as a whole hasn't imploded on each other yet, and really, there's been a lot of give and take on opinions on a lot of things.

 

Maybe it's the holidays, but dadgum, we are sitting in a playoff spot.

 

Go Canes!

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Jordan is definitely earning his contract. No doubt about it. If he continues to score at a decent pace it will just continue to get better.

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I agree.  But if you are Edmonton, last night is fresh in your mind.  What would you give up for Cam?  Or just call it anomoly?  Or just pat your young guns on the back for thier sniping skills and don't blame Cam?

 

On to Calgary.  Should be interesting.

 

I will say that JR typically doesn't like to do this kind of blockbuster trade.  It would be unusual for him.  He tends to move our stars near the end of their contract (rent a player) or let them run out to UFA.  

 

Brindy-Primeau trade was brilliant, but from the Canes perspective Primeau was badly damaged.

 

I respect every ones opinions, its a sensitive issue, but if watched closely, he was   screened on 2  of those Edmonton goal.. Jmo

I'm just sayin' it's going to likely be a big swing of emotions from one game to the next for a while, maybe months.

 

The group around here as a whole hasn't imploded on each other yet, and really, there's been a lot of give and take on opinions on a lot of things.

 

Maybe it's the holidays, but dadgum, we are sitting in a playoff spot.

 

Go Canes!

Holidays for me, seems to bring up alot of emotion, it would have  to be a  deal that is off the charts, if we let him go, let it not be in the East.. I dont see it happening, which means he is gone next week..:)

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This trading Cam thing really is interesting, with no easy answer.  If you look at this season (same team in front of them all), Peters is doing a much better job than Ward.  BUT, we do have three goalies and having that kind of assets should be looked at carefully for a team that needs to 'spend'.  

 

Trading Ward would give us the most back.  Perhaps a now player and a high round draft pick in return.  Getting rid of his salary would give us a lot more cap room.  BUT, scary to continue into the future without a bonafide number 1 goalie and no one in the system isn't it?

 

Khodobin and Peters are UFAs at the end of the year and can get us something in return without 'losing' them next year to another team who signs them and we get nothing.  The thing is, really, we won't get much in return for them because they are have no history of being number 1s and really don't have much of a sample space.

 

What to do what to do?  I really don't think it makes sense to have 3 goalies (since we can't bring one down and lose them for nothing to waivers).  The idea of losing Ward seems RELLY scary but this team right now is going no where fast and perhaps a good idea.  It also may be the first step into becoming a Flyers franchise who searches desperately to find a true number 1 goalie.

How is this team not going anywhere fast?? Totally disagree..

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Semin coming back Yes!  just imagine if he starts scoring on his normal career pace as well as Eric, Jordan, Skinner, and Ruu.  I think its gonna happen, everything seems to be coming around.  The horrible start by all of them had to end at some point.  I hope so anyway, it didn't make any sense, now players are starting to look like themselves out there.

 

I think the comeback the other night was a huge step for this team and will have them feeling more confident than ever and believing in eachother more than ever.  I think we got a new beginning starting now and we're still in good position.    Just call me mr. optimistic today.  If we lose next game than trade everybody.

Edited by danimal-ch1

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Welcome to the Island danimal. Even if you are renting.

 

I generally agree. I even think Cam will get going too.

 

The key is that they find a way to pick up some points the rest of December. The schedule maker seriously messed with us from Oct-Dec. Brutal. After this 4 games in 6 nights west coast swing we get to come back and play 5/6 of the remainder of the month vs. playoff teams. 

 

But if we can hang around and at least not lose ground, the ground softens ironically in January, where we finally start seeing the non playoff teams. But we better make some serious ground in December because after the Olympics we get to start with another brutal trip west against all the best teams in their buildings. 

 

I would bet that when it's all said and done, we must have one of the worst schedules in the league. Almost at the top on back to backs etc. 

 

But the team of the last several games excluding Edmonton, can get it done. And if they get in, could really surprise.

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I'm always on the Island! Well except that 5 game losing streak, I think I wanted Muller fired and half the team traded, but they didn't let that crumble them, they turned it around.  I've always said if they can hold .500 til the new year than anything is possible in the second half.  especially with our reputation of having great runs in Feb/March.   so far they are doing that so I am cautiously optimistic.  If they can get a couple games above .500 by than I think we will have a great second half.  I believe in Cam too, he's gonna come around and lead us. Can't win them all, just hold .500ish till January and go on a second half tear and we will be in the mix and then some.

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Here's some food for thought...October 24 was the last time Ruutu, Skinner and Semin all played in the same game.  Since that time my count says we've gone 7-9-4.  Cam was out from Oct 24 to Nov. 18, since Nov 18 we've been 5-5-2.  Despite all of this mess, we sit in a playoff spot and may actually have a fully healthy roster.  Couple games to work out the kinks and then it will be time to take this team out for a drive. 

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Tonight I have goal line seats against the glass in the Saddledome tonight, in the Calgary defensive zone for two periods so I am praying for an offensive onslaught by the boys. Also hoping to see Ward in net tonight again, he needs a few games to get his rythm back. As much as people are on the hating Cam trade him away bandwagon, I feel way more comfortable with him in net than Peters anyday no matter what the stats say.... So what if Peters stats are better, I feel like the guy is ALWAYS battling the puck and hes bound to come back down to earth.... Remember Montreal was gonna give Price away for a bag of pucks a couple years ago, and now look how hes doing....

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