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I think that factors other than salary might determine who get the buyout. Contract length, NTC, past injuries, and who has become available from other teams. If you can use the money to significantly improve your team by getting three or four players to replace the two you lose, why not?  As an example: if you could get two beast d-men for Joni's salary would you keep Joni?  See who is available, evaluate you needs , make the decision that gets you to the playoffs. That's where the real money is.

 

 

I completely agree.  Between free agency, buyouts, and players in the rumor mill, JR has a chance to restructure the defense.  I think it's very irresponsible for management not to consider buying Joni's contract.  And he gave us a speech last year when he gave up Sutter for a player we could've signed this year about how he didn't want that chance to slip by.

 

He could essentially turn Joni's contract into murray/komisarek (or something similar) and still have cap room to build our bottom 6

Edited by PenaltyKiller17

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I think that factors other than salary might determine who get the buyout. Contract length, NTC, past injuries, and who has become available from other teams. If you can use the money to significantly improve your team by getting three or four players to replace the two you lose, why not?  As an example: if you could get two beast d-men for Joni's salary would you keep Joni?  See who is available, evaluate you needs , make the decision that gets you to the playoffs. That's where the real money is.

 

The only problem is Joni is on the injured list and you can't buy out an injured player. I don't think he will be medically cleared  until after the July buyout period.  With only one year left on his contract I'm not even sure a buyout would be worth it. If he is healthy and can play he is part of our D group and if he can't play he will be long term injured reserve and that gives us some cap relief. Also if he is healthy he could be traded later in the year depending on our play and needs.

 

I think if we can accomplish what we want without buyouts this year and you can keep the 2 compliance buyouts in your pocket for next year we might be better off. Only my opinion.

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Yah, I figured Joni would be the potential target. But buying him out makes little sense for several reasons. But the main one is this. It's not like there is a clearly better defenseman than Joni just sitting in the FA market waiting to be signed if we just had the money. 

 

It might still happen as more compliance buyouts happen, but hasn't yet. 

 

There are other reasons, but gotta go. I don't see us buying anyone out. And that is not a bad thing.

 

I do see us picking a boughtout guy up, maybe two. And that is a good thing.

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... I think we can all agree not to the judge the output of a guy playing half a year for a new team with no training camp....  

Right, those factors really hurt Alex Semin last year, now didn't they!   

It called making excuses (for Jordan and his 60-mill package)..  

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Don't the compliance buyouts stick with a team after this year, but only are usable during the buyout period between the end of the season and free agency?

 

And Greg, valid point but I think Semin didn't have the nice comfort of being under contract for the next ten years. He was playing to stick around, not necessarily with the team but with the league. Again, an excuse, but a valid one I'd say.

 

Also, NHL.com has added a Buyout Tracker.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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If I'm reading it correctly there will be one buyout period this year  and then another at the end of next season.

 

Each NHL team has been awarded two compliance buyouts that can be used at the end of this season or following the 2013-14 season.

 

The window is for this year is June 26  @ 11p - July 4 @ 5p. I expect next years window will be about the same.

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There is no question that J. did not play up to his contract last year. 

 

All that really matters now is this. Is that what we can expect moving forward or not?

 

The excuses from my point of view are just attempts to explain what happened and still predicting that we see a better J. this year and beyond. The numbers J. Staal put up in Pittsburgh both regular season and playoffs strongly suggest that J. can do much better than last year. Thus, one has to believe that this 24 year old #2 overall pick that put up .79 ppg (including nearly 1 ppg in the playoffs) his last two years in Pittsburgh (at age 22-23), peaked there and last year's .65 ppg is the new expectation despite playing on a better line with better offensive players. 

 

Adjusting to a new team has been documented to be more difficult for some players vs. others. One can document several challenges for J. that Semin did not face. The whole "A" issue. The injuries to line-mates, the lack of a third line scoring threat, not playing w/ Eric and Tlusty etc. etc. etc.

 

The safe bet is that J. Staal breaks out next year and odds are he is closer to .85 or better ppg. J. will not be the whipping boy next year. Write it down, then admit it I was right, or get my bowl of crow ready.

Edited by remkin

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And Greg, valid point but I think Semin didn't have the nice comfort of being under contract for the next ten years. He was playing to stick around, not necessarily with the team but with the league. Again, an excuse, but a valid one I'd say.

 

Also, NHL.com has added a Buyout Tracker.

SP, I gottcha, but if that is a valid point (excuse), I think my concern is even greater!!  In short that logic goes to saying Jordan Staal is all set with his contract, so he wan't as hungry as Semin last year? So, lets give Jordan a pass for not being as motivated as Semin?

That is scary if that is really what was going on with Jordan (and you might be right).  

All this "only 1/2 season, no camp, he just got married, moved to a new city, wasn't playing as hard since he just  got his big money, etc.."  logic is really wishful thinking and  hoping he'll do better (what choice do we have). I'm just not buying the excuses -- his contract is the single biggest concern I have for this team... its sick money and guys making that $$$ around the NHL are typically MUCH MUCH better!  Its a 60-mil package!.   

Again, hopefully he steps up, but please lets not make excuses in the interim for his performance and effort level last year.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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OBX- Thanks! Makes me breathe easier with potential signings this free agency, or trading for a contract that may not be ideal. Solely for cap purposes, as we'd still be paying any bought out player and that's not great for budget teams.

 

Rem and Greg:

I think there are several factors playing into Jordan Staal. First let's take the player of comparison, Semin, quickly look over his situation last season.

 

Semin was placed on the first line and pretty much stuck, he was acquired for that specific spot anyways. He saw the same two linemates for the season, give or take a few maybe in the beginning. He saw a bump in ice time, and benefitted from it. His linemates never got injured (Tlusty or Eric) I believe, if so, not for any extended period of time.

 

Jordan on the other hand, anchored the second line. He stayed in his spot as well all season long. His linemates did not, though. In the beginning Jordan was producing well with Skinner, and the other wing was a revolving door seeing LaRose, Dwyer, Bowman, Dalpe among others. But Skinner got concussed and his production plummeted. The fact that Jordan was piling up assists and not goals sort of killed his production as well. 

 

I don't think we should worry about Jordan yet. After next season, then I would. Jordan was supposed to have Ruutu on his other wing, creating a steady line of Skinner - Jordan - Ruutu. He was out as we all know. So Jordan not only was introduce to a new organization and team, but he was constantly seeing different linemates.

 

Semin had an advantage in he had a whole season continuously gaining chemistry with his linemates because they never changed. Jordan on the other hand didn't have that benefit. The one steady linemate he had in Skinner, the chemistry was brewing until Skinner's concussion. Skinner was over a PPG and tied or second on the team in goalscoring, while Jordan led the team in assists (and he had about an assist per game going at the time). He had some moments with Dwyer, and a good game or two with Dalpe, but I'd say Jordan got the short end of the stick when it came to have a consistent set of wingers to play with. 

 

I will say that the match ups Jordan faced shouldn't be used to defend his play. Jordan is used to playing against that kind of competition. He thrives in those situations. 

 

This coming season, he'll benefit from several things. Training camp, Ruutu, and a healthy Skinner all point to a rebound year for Jordan. If not, I'll eat crow and cry myself to sleep, because I really really wanted Jordan Staal on the team, and not because his last name.

 

EDIT: I also wanted to point out that yes, the fact he had his contract and that potentially resulted in less drive is scary. I also want to say that we don't really have a choice but to give him the benefit of the doubt and give him the excuses. Jordan is still young, hell there's players his age just breaking into the league. I'm also comfortable saying he'll win at least one Selke trophy in his contract. At least. 

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Guys I'm onboard, we're all hoping Jordan Staal finally steps up.

 

We don't want to see Rem with a "bowl of crow" or SP "eating crow" (no bowl, I guess).

 

Just for the fun of it, here's the list of excuses (reasons) the board has come up with so

far to defend Jordan...  (I'll add to it as new ones pop in).

 

 

He only played 1/2 season.

He did not have camp.

He just got married.

He moved to a new city.

He had to settle in over the summer.

He had major house hunting pressure picking out the best 2-mil house in N.Ral.

He wasn't playing as hard since he just got his big money.

He faced the pressure of wearing the "A"

His linemates had injuries.

Our 3rd line did not score much.

He did not have the same line to work with all season.

He's "only" 24.

Edited by Greg-N-Ral

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I guess there has to be some reason. 

 

(Though getting married and being 24 and the house thing I will dismiss out of hand).

 

If there is no reason, then it was bad luck or that is what we can expect from here out. Let's hope not.

 

But I am really confident that, whatever the reason for his slow start, he'll be back in force this year. And just think of how good this team will be if he and Skinner and Ruutu all find their game. 

Edited by remkin

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The Chicago Blackhawks are shopping forward Dave Bolland.

According to TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun of ESPN.com and TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie, word is surfacing that he's being shopped by the Stanley Cup champions in trade talks.

Bolland, 27, has one year remaining on a five-year contract that carries an annual average value of $3.3 million. He is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

Bolland scored the game-winning goal that won the Blackhawks the Stanley Cup in Game 6. The Mimico, Ont., native scored seven goals and seven assists in 35 games this season and added three goals and three assists in the playoffs.

Per TSN

 

Hello third line center? 

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I don't think we'd want Vinny. He'd probably have tons of offers from teams looking for either a top line center or second line center. I think for the third line we're either looking for wingers for Skinner, like Briere or Clutterbuck or Clowe type guys, or for a center like Bolland or Cullen or Hecht. Personally I want Jerred Smithson as our third line center, if not, fourth line center.

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I don't think it has been mentioned here but with the N&O post regarding re-signing Brett Sutter, JR also mentioned several players who we will be letting go to the open market:

 

Of the players who closed the season on the Canes’ roster, forwards Chad LaRose and Tim Brent; defensemen Joe Corvo, Bobby Sanguinetti and Marc-Andre Bergeron, and goalie Dan Ellis will become unrestricted free agents on July 5 if not re-signed.

 

"We will let them go into free agency," Rutherford said. "We’ll see if some make it back to us or if we make it back to them."

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/25/2989520/forward-brett-sutter-signs-with.html

 

I still think somehow, after no other team signs him, Rosey comes crawling back and signs whatever 2-3 year cheap contract he can from JR.

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I really really really don't want LaRose here anymore, but considering our cap situation and the need for bottom six players on the cheap, I don't think this is impossible. But he'd have to take the league minimum in pay and really kiss JR and PK's *edit* big time to make up for skipping his exit interview. JR was PISSED.

 

EDIT: and it'd probably be a two-way as well. 

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Jordan will be fine this year. Last season he was asked to center a line against other teams' top lines with a defensively unreliable Jeff Skinner and produce points with an offensively challenged Pat Dwyer. Things will improve drastically with Ruutu and whoever we draft at 5.

Edited by cclifford10

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I think a lot of y'all are looking at his +/- and taking it way out of proportion. The guy was still on pace to reach close to 60pts, which have been about or better than he's been averaging. He was also playing on a far less consistent team than he has in the past. He was still the best player not on the 1st line. If you guys want a whipping boy, there are far better candidates.

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Guys I'm onboard, we're all hoping Jordan Staal finally steps up.

We don't want to see Rem with a "bowl of crow" or SP "eating crow" (no bowl, I guess).

Just for the fun of it, here's the list of excuses (reasons) the board has come up with so

far to defend Jordan... (I'll add to it as new ones pop in).

He only played 1/2 season.

He did not have camp.

He just got married.

He moved to a new city.

He had to settle in over the summer.

He had major house hunting pressure picking out the best 2-mil house in N.Ral.

He wasn't playing as hard since he just got his big money.

He faced the pressure of wearing the "A"

His linemates had injuries.

Our 3rd line did not score much.

He did not have the same line to work with all season.

He's "only" 24.

The difference in excuses and reasons is simple. Players you like have "reasons" and those you don't, have "excuses". Of course, I really don't recall you ever saying anything positive about any player, except for Ellis. JStaal didn't have a great year, and I'm sure a couple of those "excuses" factored in. I personally think he was suffering from an ingrown toenail on his left pinky toe. That's the one that went "Wee, wee, wee, all the way home" Edited by super_dave_1

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I think JR should look real close at getting Vinny. He had a huge influence on Stamkos, and could really help Skinner. He has good size, can play physical, and a third line role could be a perfect fit for a guy late in his career. I think he still has some gas in the tank, and if he centers a line with Skinner on the wing, the Canes would be a very dangerous offensive team. Now, could we afford him?

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Jordan may rebound but he is going to have to do something to gain my respect back (not that he gives a damn about me but...). He was brutal last year, there was no excuse to come here and look so uninspired and downright disinterested most of the time. I don't care about statistics, excuses, etc., I have eyes and that is all you needed last season to see that his play/effort was bad. Signing a 60 million dollar contract and coming to a new organization/city, he should have come out and tried to excite the fans/management, instead he looked like he was sleepwalking. I wouldn't care so much if he didn't produce but showed some fire, but there was none of that.

I think he will rebound, but last year was unacceptable in my opinion. If he looks disinterested again next year, then I would buy him out without hesitation. Again, I think he will be better but...

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