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What's concerning about Riley is that Francis loved him and if Francis is next in line to be GM then I don't see our scouting getting much better. Yea 1 failure is a bit harsh to go on I admit. But I don't have a ton of confidence in Francis being a GM to begin with.

Edited by legend-1

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Then as to your contention that no player "would want to play in this market", I just have to question where that comes from? Surely there are players that seek the bright lights and glitz that larger markets provide, however I have to believe that there are those from areas and towns who appreciate the similarity between their home and here? Others who are "burned out" from unwanted notoriety? Or finally, those with younger families who are beginning to mature, settle down and search for security and safety?

 

Right.  Some may not want to play here.  Some may not want to play in NY too.

 

Khoudobin signed here for a seemingly decent deal.  He wants to play in this market.

 

Now, would Lucic want to play here?  I don't know.  JR doesn't want that type of player so we may never know.

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Kopes2718, While I agree with most of what you've just posted, I don't with all and further, I am unsure of the point you are making? Does the discussion carried out here tend to "recycle" many ideas, sure, but does that differ from any fan base's discussions? While I don't frequent any other boards, I have to believe that that observation could be made anywhere.

 

As to your point about the rather superficiality of many discussions centering upon "heights and weights and games", might I be so bold as to suggest that these are the tangibles that we as fans can observe. The deeper issues you point out are purely conjectural, and lacking "insider" information of the real structure of this organization, the best anyone can do, as you have, is just speculation. For instance, while i completely agree that to us casual observers the oft exceedingly large contracts and restricted terms given to just a select few would appear to hamstring assembly of so-called "role players", the heart of a team's 3rd and 4th lines, there is no way any of us (unless some poster is sitting in on team decisions) can know what circumstances led to these decisions?

 

As to your point of lumping together "coaching staff is a failure, the GM makes awful financial decisions because NO PLAYER WORTH HIS WEIGHT IN GOLD WANTS TO PLAY FOR THIS TEAM OR IN OUR MARKET", well I humbly disagree. First, as to the coaching staff, I've offered the theory, that Muller may be hampered both by his lack of head coaching experience as well as possibly being prevented what he'd like to do to shape the team by JR's overbearance. Do I know this as fact, no, but it might explain for instance, playing Cam when we needed to win a game badly.

 

Then as to your contention that no player "would want to play in this market", I just have to question where that comes from? Surely there are players that seek the bright lights and glitz that larger markets provide, however I have to believe that there are those from areas and towns who appreciate the similarity between their home and here? Others who are "burned out" from unwanted notoriety? Or finally, those with younger families who are beginning to mature, settle down and search for security and safety?

 

Should the team be blown up as you suggest? Might I suggest that in a larger, more easily sustainable market with a fanatic  hockey base, I'd say that would be a reasonable solution. Here, in Raleigh,NC , with multiple competing sports and other endeavors competing for entertainment dollars, I'd suggest that that approach would be a bad idea.

While I do enjoy being condesended to I would like to think that a consistent losing record and being absent from a post season for as many years as we have would seem to indicate (on the outside as being an insider in this case is not important) there is serious issue with Front office and players. Its pretty obivious these bloated contracts are to entice guys to stay here and play. When guys come up through youth hockey and make it to the NHL what is every players dream?? To win a CUP, its not to play for an awful team. No kid grows up saying "I want to play for a bottom half team that under performs" that has never been said by anyone ever. This team has been losing since Hartford and little has ever been done to change it we go through coaches likes pairs of underware and players have come and gone, so statistically speaking what is the common factor that hasent change at all since hartford...drum roll please...our GM! Muller came in and preached all this jazz about accountablity and how he was going to mix things up...hows that working out? When I say no one wants to play in this Market I am not refering to NC or fans. I am saying that our product is crap, I am saying that no guy wants to play here because we are a bottom lower half team all the time, and as we established earlier guys want stanley cup rings not to stagnate in their primes on a bad team. Please name me some of the bigger names (non Staals) who have played for us and wanted to come here...ill wait. Feel free to go back and dig through Whalers Rosters as well. Anytime a bigger name comes here his tank is more than half empty, or wants out right away ala Brendan Shanahan. Sure we have had some names like Ronny etc but lets be real here. On trade days you hear about these "short lists" we are NEVER on them, there is a pretty clear reason for that. But to be clear NC has great sports teams  outside of The Canes,please dont misunderstand what I am saying.  Bottom line you will never see a guy like Crosby in a Canes uniform. As far as topic on the boards is concerned I am not sure but I swear its the same five topics over and over, something anything fresh would be welcome. Thats why I try to post things like did, get some slightly new dialog going.

Edited by Kopes2718

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I have decided to never again give any credence to any post that cannot correctly spell the name of our current coach.

I literally wrote a novel...and one spelling error(that has been fixed) is all you got? That just rests my case that nothing new can ever be discussed. I am trying to be real about the state of this team if its not something people want to take time to contemplate on or actually wake up and realize then thats fine. Meanwhile no matter how many stats are discussed or players current mental states it does little to confront the real issue in that this team is headed nowhere and has been for years. This has been going on since Hartford I am no fair weather fan as you allude to. I was at the final Whalers game, went to alot of their games growing up, i see the canes everytime they come to Boston even though its 2 1/2 hours from where I live in MA, subscribe to the NHL package to watch games as I dont have local NC tv chanels and support the team as best a fan can from hundreds of miles away. I was in North Carolina for business (Monroe) and drove to catch a game.That was a hike. So before you judge someone it may be best to question why they feel the way they do instead of being a generic and unoriginal poster.

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I literally wrote a novel...and one spelling error(that has been fixed) is all you got?

 

Trust me, you aren't the first or the last...just the latest.

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"While I do enjoy being condescended to", Kopes, grow up a little. I assure you that if I wanted to be condescending, you'd know it. Actually, IF YOU HAD BOTHERED to read my communication, I'd agreed with several of your thoughts, but the general Chicken Little "Sky is falling" sound of it kind of rankled me.

 

I applaud your having been a Whaler fan, and possible that's the origin of or the cause for your unbridled pessimism, but I for one am very proud of this team, and despite our not having in the playoffs for 5 years running, am not about to give up on it.

 

Oh, as far as 1 word mispelled, perhaps a spell checker would help there. As a matter of fact, I counted at least 1/2 dozen, but I don't fixate on them because I'm a horrible typist and tend to make several myself.

Edited by KJUNKANE

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"While I do enjoy being condescended to", Kopes, grow up a little. I assure you that if I wanted to be condescending, you'd know it. Actually, IF YOU HAD BOTHERED to read my communication, I'd agreed with several of your thoughts, but the general Chicken Little "Sky is falling" sound of it kind of rankled me.

 

I applaud your having been a Whaler fan, and possible that's the origin of or the cause for your unbridled pessimism, but I for one am very proud of this team, and despite our not having in the playoffs for 5 years running, am not about to give up on it.

 

Oh, as far as 1 word mispelled, perhaps a spell checker would help there.

 

Ive been following this team (including Hartford) since, 95...better half of 20 years and I havent given up on it yet either. I am not trying to sound childish I could just sense that you took issue with certain things I said and how you came back in some cases irked me as well. But I will say you are confusing Pessimism for frustration. I read these boards and the topics are ones I have been hearing for years and years and years, meanwhile I am spending money to watch good hockey and keep getting slapped in the face. I hold high hopes that this team will turn around one day but when a ship is sinking sometimes its best to replace the entire bow not just plug the hole and go on your voyage anyway. Everyone has a right to their opinion so you being proud of this team is great, I personally would never say those two things in the same sentence. A proud moment for me with this team was everyone standing on their feet cheering for the Whalers last game, the players were crying and throwing their gear out to the fans...that was a memory worth being proud of. When I went to a game in Boston wearing full Hurricanes gear I was getting ribbed by the fans and I didnt care especially when I found a group of Canes fans and we were able to manage to sit together, the canes won our cheers were loud and it was a great time. We got so much crap during the game but it was worth every second and we never stopped cheering. That is what i am proud of the at time cult following this team has.

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Could one of the attractiveness about Raleigh is the fact it is not a major media market and players do not have to live under its pressure?

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Mabye it would be good if the players did feel some of the pressure that existed in the major markets.

Could one of the attractiveness about Raleigh is the fact it is not a major media market and players do not have to live under its pressure?

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Mabye it would be good if the players did feel some of the pressure that existed in the major markets.

 

 

Don't know.  In the major makets every move seems to be followed.  Perhaps there is too little presure to peform.  The Cames responed well after being called out by Kirk.   Perhaps JR needs a tongue lashing by the media.   Or, should this be media as we have only one major newspaper?

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Mabye it would be good if the players did feel some of the pressure that existed in the major markets.

 

Honestly I want players who can handle pressure. But it is true there are less outside distractions in this market. That might appeal to some players but it shouldn't come at the price of mediocrity.

 

I think almost everyone should be on the table. My list of must keeps is short Khudobin, Sekera, Bellemore,Semin. I'm not saying we shouldn't keep Faulk,Lindholm,Skinner, the Staals only that if the right deal is offered and the right replacement can be signed I would consider all deals. What we have isn't working.

 

(and yet we are only 7 pts back with beatable teams (after tomorrow night). Late season charge falling just short? It is in our DNA)

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Kopes, you sound like a "good" guy, and I don't intend to rehash this disagreement after this, but I'll reitreate that it was not my intent or my disagreement with certain points you made that was calculated to sound at all condescending. As I pointed out in the original as well as the subsequent message, I merely wanted to understand your original post in so far as your 1st expression of apparent frustration at " the same topics and subject matter" being frequently rehashed. While I pointedly admitted that they were, I also posed the question as to whether you think this is ANY DIFFERENT than any other fan board, especially as loses mount? You've yet to answer that.

After your initial confusing intro, you then transcend to critisizing anything Canes' related, or at least that is what I perceived. Now whether or not that was your intent, that is where I took issue. Fully admitting that there are multiple issues regarding this team, I still am overjoyed to be able to enjoy the sport, IN PERSON, rather than thru someone else's eyes and TV lens.

Now, finally as to your last challenge regarding any players wanting to come to this venue, I vividly recall Brindy's strong testimonial about his unexpected attachment to the area once he arrived. Now, I don't question the contention that most of the bigger name players do not see RDU as a desirable area to play, but face it Kopes, the majority of them are young, many bring Canadian bias into the decision and most desire an active night life. A glitzy night life ala Montreal, Toronto, NYC, Boston or Los Angeles is not this area's forte. Quite possibly that is the reason that JR always focuses his sights for draft picks on Character and Maturity? Altho we as a group are questioning his picks, I've always believed that his drive for "wholesomeness" is the key to what this particular market will bear. At any rate, I do think that there are a selected few who would be desirous of the lifestyle they get in this area, and despite their lack of a "Big" name, can be a competitive team.

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Could one of the attractiveness about Raleigh is the fact it is not a major media market and players do not have to live under its pressure?

Nathan Horton cited this exact reason for signing in Columbus.

What that says about the player is debatable. I'm not an NHL player so I have no clue what the scrutiny and pressure is like in a market like Boston.

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Alex Semin seems to prefer the laid back Raleigh market. Aside from his interview with Tripp last year, I don't think I've seen a pre or post game interview with him, probably the way he likes it.

Edited by Gejustin

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I think almost everyone should be on the table. My list of must keeps is short Khudobin, Sekera, Bellemore,Semin.

I agree with your "keepers." I would add Lindholm but then again I am biased. Nice to see someone else thinks Bellemore is a keeper, I thought I was on an island (maybe I shouldn't use that word). I think he brings a lot to the table, especially in areas we need it. I think his value vs. cost/potential cost is good. I also think he is still improving.

.

Edited by Kyrule

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I agree with your "keepers." I would add Lindholm but then again I am biased. Nice to see someone else thinks Bellemore is a keeper, I thought I was on an island (maybe I shouldn't use that word). I think he brings a lot to the table, especially in areas we need it. I think his value vs. cost/potential cost is good. I also think he is still improving.

.

 

I would hate to see Lindy go. He has great potential and of late we are getting a glimpse of how could he might be. Yet if it was a knock your socks off offer I might be tempted to make a move for the now and worry about the future later. Honestly I expect 2/3 of the roster to be back. I just think you can't discount any potential move no matter who it involves.

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I would not trade Lindholm. You won't get value. The kid is only 19. The vast majority of his draft class is playing in Juniors including one vaunted Jonathan Drouin. Most of them will play in juniors again after that. He is getting better every day. He plays both ends of the ice, and he is going to be a world class playmaker. In a couple of years he will be amazing. 

 

The only way a team like the Hurricanes gets a player like this is drafting him. 

 

If there were four guys I put in my lock box don't even look at them, untouchables: Sekera, Khudini, Linholm, Faulk. 

 

Better knock my socks off: E or J Staal, Skinner, Semin. 

 

Not going to get enough and still really like: Murphy, Bellemore, Gerbe. 

 

Maybe can sign cheap after mega blowout year fizzled: Tlusty.

 

Not sure, in the middle: Hainsey, Dwyer, Loktionov, JML.

 

Need to trade: C. Ward. Need the salary and Khudini is the man. Need some return. 

Edited by remkin

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Dreger on TSN: It's highly likely Cam Ward will be traded in the summer. Eric Staal and Jeff Skinner could potentially be in play.

 

I think we all know about Cam, but Skinner and Eric possibly being on the block is surprising.

 

Eric honestly deserves to be on the block, though it's interesting to place him immediately on the block instead of, say, stripping him of his C as a means of motivation.

 

Skinner we shouldn't be thinking of trading though, unless the return is significant. Kid is hockey Bieber, yeah he's streaky but if he works on his defensive game (which he has improved over the last couple games) then he'll be good to go.

 

If these two are on the block then I think it's JR saying Muller is the guy and that Eric and Skinner don't like Muller. I wonder how Jordan would feel if Eric was traded though.

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The Canes Fan Nation is letting it be known that nuff is enuff.

 

Stay tuned.

 

Should be an interesting time as the season closes out and speculation walks in.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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Do not like losing but...throwing this out there...what is the trade rate of teams that make the playoffs consistently ?

We know that players like Eric and Skinner can score and are good players - we have a young team - maybe what we are missing is a solid veteran presence -

The cup year we had a balance of young skilled players (e staal cam ward) and solid veteran players (brindy weight walker) we had a physical game- everyone had their assignment and knew what their job was...the coach knew what he had - and how to play them.

Honestly the team has looked confused and lost the last few years - what they are missing is a clear identy ... Are we a run and gun (Lavi) are we a defense first goals will come (muller) we are really neither... Teams who know what they are and who they are are the teams that make the playoff consistantly. Boston/ physical - Hawks/run gun.... Canes???

I think the players are trying to do what is asked of them but honestly if the game plan is constantly changing - well - that's not on them. Think of the top players Sidney - goal scorer that's his job he doesn't hit that's someone else's job.

Bottom line "management" needs to figure out who does what figure out what makes a good team- assign everyone their role - look at where the holes are then find the player that fits that spot...STOP POUNDING SQUARE PEGS INTO ROUND HOLES... Example- Rutuu - not a third/ fourth liner on are top 6 he produced on jerseys top 6 he produces on our 3/4 he sucked it's not where he plays best...jussi same Timmy - physical player since MO he was asked/told not to play that way...not his game so his play appeared to decline- in toronto he is allowed to play his game and he is thriving again... This is not a player issue this is a management issue-

Trade any and all players you want until management figures out what kind of team they are "building"' we will continue to lose!

Sorry for the 1.50 I meant to only give my .02 cents. Trading away good players without having any direction will still leave you lost I don't care who you get in return.

LETS GO CANES

Edited by Pkling40

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Just another 50 cents...

How about you figure out what "system" you want to play- what players you need to play that kind of system then get those players...if not how...about you figure out a "system" the players you have can play - like I said above...

Stop pounding square pegs into round holes- the players /talent we have in my opinion are being completely mismanaged which equals LOSING.

When a player is missing in the pens lineup they figure out what player they have in their system that plays that way and they put them in that spot...which is why they never skip a beat...

Depth? Or identity -knowing who you have what they can do and playing them appropriately ok ok I'm out of money lol

Edited by Pkling40

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What is the magic that happens when you strip the "C" off a player's jersey? I'm all for holding players accountable, but this idea keeps popping up. There was recently a thread about hanging it on Semin and it seems to me that as recent as the trade deadline, people were complaining about Semin and his horrible contract.

Seems ice time would be a lot better discipline tool.

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KJUN,

 

I just want to say that I never once compared this board to any other board, that was something you suggested. Why would I need to talk on a point I didnt make and seeing as though I have gone on others boards maybe once or twice matter to what I am talking about here? Again I am not putting down the area at all. Its the team itself, we are not viewed as a top tier contender and have not been for many years, this in turn is a detractor for guys who want a fresh start and to win some games. Because I am not there in person I cannot enjoy games or view them as you do? If anything paying over a hundred dollars a year on NHL network not including ticket prices and game milage to see games when I can seems a little more hardcore than flipping a button on your local TV station or driving 20 minutes to an hour to get to a game. If you hold season tickets ok lets talk. The problem with this team at times is the fanbase is always drinking the Kool Aid.

 

If this were canada JR would have been fired (stepped down, he owns part of the team)and ousted by fans years ago as would some of the players. I get it laid back area, escape so on so forth but I dont care about any of that to be honest. I dont spend this money to see if players are enjoying the area they are living in I pay to watch hockey and good hockey. Watching a team that is sub par and wont change to fix their issues is a slap in the face to all of us but most of you guys dont see it this way which is shocking to me. Like I said in a previous post we have had some bigger names here Brindy would naturally be included there But last I checked he retired years ago and left a huge hole in the roster even as his performance was declining. I seem like a "good" guy? I am lost as to what my character has anything to do with a post on this board.

 

I have a contrasting viewpoint from many here and it gets shut down, bottom line is if you were to make a list of pros and cons about this team in its current state you would have more negatives. What I am saying is as the people buying the product that the team is putting on the ice and selling we might need to raise our voice a bit is my point. Sitting here wasting time on a guy like Riley Nash (no offense) who will become obscure in a few years is a perfect example of how the fans have accepted that we are nothing more than second tier and fans are trying to work the best with what they are given.

 

The list of forgetable players to run through the teams doors is very very long, as can be said about most teams but my point is its time for us to stop allowing them to spoon feed us crap hockey and roll over and take it. How many winning seasons has this team had? Dont bother going all the way back to the Whalers days I am talking recent history. I am not amazing at math by any means but lets take a quick look, we have made playoffs only 5 times and only had 3 realling winning seasons and 1 cup. The 1 cup is what has everyone living in a state of fluffy thoughts, it has been years since then we have been on steady decline since then. I know I will get alot of flak for this but thats just how I am looking at it from my lenz.

Edited by Kopes2718

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Just another 50 cents... How about you figure out what "system" you want to play- what players you need to play that kind of system then get those players...if not how...about you figure out a "system" the players you have can play - like I said above... Stop pounding square pegs into round holes- the players /talent we have in my opinion are being completely mismanaged which equals LOSING. When a player is missing in the pens lineup they figure out what player they have in their system that plays that way and they put them in that spot...which is why they never skip a beat... Depth? Or identity -knowing who you have what they can do and playing them appropriately ok ok I'm out of money lol

 

I think you have nailed it!  The Canes have no identity and the players are mismatched to each other and mismatched for Muller's system.  We can talk about leadership, effort, heart, or whatever, but it doesn't matter until they figure out who they are and where they are going.  How can you lead when you don't know where you are going?  This is most evident on the power play.  The players are mostly standing around like they are not exactly sure where they should be going or what they should be doing.  The players being mismatched to each other is JR's fault and he should be held accountable.  The players being mismatched to the system in Muller's fault and he should be held accountable.  They need to decide where they want to go and then decide how to get there.

 

If Muller, and his defense first system, is staying, then trade Skinner while he still has value.  He is never really going to fit that system.  If you want to run and gun, get rid of Muller (and Brindy).  It's just not the kind of hockey they are comfortable playing.

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