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I think Morrow is the type of guy we need. Not the exact guy, but when is there ever the exact guy we need within our reasonable grasp? I think he's slowed down quite a bit, but we have enough offense on our roster already, he'd be made aware of his specific role on the team and he'd play that role. Secondary/Tertiary scoring and a veteran guy to speak up in the locker room and show the new and young guys the ropes. All while providing smart, clean hits (providing physicality). I think he's completely capable of this. Just my .02 

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I think Morrow is the type of guy we need. Not the exact guy, but when is there ever the exact guy we need within our reasonable grasp? I think he's slowed down quite a bit, but we have enough offense on our roster already, he'd be made aware of his specific role on the team and he'd play that role. Secondary/Tertiary scoring and a veteran guy to speak up in the locker room and show the new and young guys the ropes. All while providing smart, clean hits (providing physicality). I think he's completely capable of this. Just my .02 

Oh, I agree with the points you make.  My main thought is about our position if he wants a multi-year contract (which I get the feeling he does).  That's where "how much is left in the tank?" comes in.  How much are you willing to pay him across multiple years?  While his potential contribution is obviously way more than someone like Gerbe, he's not going to settle for anything like Gerbe did, either.   He was getting $4.1m per year.  Would you be willing to pay him $3.5m for 4 years? 3 years? $2.5m for 4 years (if he'd take it)?   If Morrow does want something other than a short term contract, the ability to come to acceptable terms for both parties is the part I'm worried we may be underestimating given the point in his career that Morrow is at. 

 

Oh, and I'm looking forward to hearing from those who have pointed out a couple of the longer term contracts we're currently stuck with.  Let's hear some opinions on a Saturday night instead of a Monday morning :D.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I get the feeling Morrow doesn't have many options, so he doesn't really have much control over term or pay. I'd be willing to give him 3 years max, and only at 3 years if it's around 2m per. 2 years from 2 - 3m I'd be fine signing, but not for more than 3 per.

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Do you have a link that says he is looking for a longer-term contract?

 

You need to be an ESPN insider member in order to access the page, but here's a copy & paste::

__________________________________________________________________________ Craig Custance:

A change of scenery

"Hurricanes beat writer Chip Alexander reported that Carolina has engaged in conversations with Morrow's camp, and that would be a good signing for the Hurricanes. GM Jim Rutherford continues to look to upgrade his team with the move to the new Metropolitan Division, a steep jump in quality of competition from the Southeast into a group that now includes the Rangers, Penguins, Flyers and Islanders. Morrow has also been connected to the Canadiens, another team looking to add size and physicality. At this point, Morrow is still looking for term in his next contract and there may be enough demand to get it."

__________________________________________________________________

 

I bolded the part that gives me that impression. In the context of the quote, "term" seems to imply years, not just $ to me.  And given that his next move will be his second within 6 months, and the stage his career is at, him wanting a multiyear contract seems to make intuitive sense to me.   But that's just speculation on my part . . .

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I get the feeling Morrow doesn't have many options, so he doesn't really have much control over term or pay. I'd be willing to give him 3 years max, and only at 3 years if it's around 2m per. 2 years from 2 - 3m I'd be fine signing, but not for more than 3 per.

 

Supposedly 3 teams are still actively talking to him.  If you're right, maybe it's just a matter of waiting until his expectations come down and we can scoop him for a reasonable amount.  But that could well be the reason nothing has happened yet, not a lack of interest or effort on JRs part.

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I am guessing you are right LakeLivin and many others on Morrow. 

 

Morrow is facing a career adjustment much like Muller himself did. No one is willing to put him on their top line and pay him that way, or he'd be signed. But if one is facing a decline in salary, one is probably not in a rush to sign the first low ball offer. So one waits the market out a bit. 

 

As to term, term is always an issue in light of two other things: salary, and NTC's. If he has no NTC, and a moderate salary, he can probably be traded at some point even if it is just for the much loved bag of hockey pucks.

 

The reason he is the right piece for us, is that we don't need Morrow at his peak. We are not asking Morrow to compete for 1st line time. We need him to adjust his role to more of a protoypical third liner. We are asking Morrow to be the physical gritty guy and score more goals than Bowman or Dalpe (and Dwyer). He can do that in his sleep. 

 

Dwyer is a very solid third liner in all angles of the game except the scoring part. Yes, he had a break out year last year, but really he got hot with a bunch of right time right place goals, then went back to normal. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate everything else he does, but we need someone with more scoring touch in the other two slots if Dwyer is the #9 guy.

 

I am fairly alone on this one, but I am not counting Nash out. I saw some nice things. He makes plays. He only has 37 NHL games compared to Bowman's 106. The NHL has lots of very productive players who took a couple of NHL seasons to start putting up points. Nash put up his points with less minutes on the third line too. 

 

Bowman, Dalpe, Boycuk. I have low expectations for all three, but the most hope for Dalpe to prove me wrong.

 

Anyway, I like the Gerbe pick up as a complimentary piece, and he will score more points that the current Chad LaRose or Bowman, but I can't help thinking that the answers thus far for the third line, is more of the same. Find some cast offs, mix in some prospects and hope it works out. That is what we have done before, and if we stand pat that is what we will have done again.  

 

Morrow would change that. If he accepts the new role, he would be the piece that solidifies all the other pieces.

Edited by remkin

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Rem, I agree with your thoughts, and count me as someone else that likes the way Nash plays. I've been impressed with the kid ever since he immediately signed with us after spurning Edm.

 

As to Morrow, I believe that you"ve nailed the situation, altho, I wonder if JR might just be biding his time to see if anyone else shakes loose due to the decreased cap this year from any other team? That way, he might just luck into an unbelievable "deal". Still, I hope that he doesn't wait too long and lose out on all that experience as well as grit.

 

My other hope is that 1 of Rask or Welch will come to training camp and blow the coaches" socks off!

 

Finally, I am somewhat confused with some of the reports, or should I say ambivelence, that seems to be surrounding Lindholm. Do you think that his father was concerned with that hit he took at the Prospect Camp, thus may try to influence the guy to stay in Sweden for 1 more year?

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If Lindholm can't threaten a 2nd liners spot, he should spend another year in Sweden. I don't expect the kid to walk in and take a 2nd line spot but if a top 6 get's injured I think Lindholm should be the man ready to step in. If that's not where he's at in his development and he's staring at 3rd line 4th line duty all year I think that's a waste and he should spend another year developing.

 

I look back at the last time our top 6 was solid with a top notch prospect in Ladd and the kid couldn't develop in that situation.

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I really hope we don't rush Lindholm into the lineup, but I'm already hearing JR repeatedly say we expect him to make the team, so who knows what will happen. 

 

On Nash, he's proved to me to be capable of centering the fourth line with sheltered minutes, but put into a scoring role, I don't have as much faith in his skills.

 

Morrow would help, but I would be surprised to see him get more than a year here.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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. . .

As to Morrow, I believe that you"ve [remkin] nailed the situation, altho, I wonder if JR might just be biding his time to see if anyone else shakes loose due to the decreased cap this year from any other team? That way, he might just luck into an unbelievable "deal". Still, I hope that he [presumably JR?] doesn't wait too long and lose out on all that experience as well as grit.

. . .

 

The part of your statement that I bolded leads me to believe that either you don't agree with the question I raised (if so, fair enough, please ignore the rest of this post) or that you didn't get the point I was trying to make.  My point wasn't that Morrow wouldn't be a great piece to add to our current roster. It was that at this point of his career 1) Morrow would be more of a "role player" than a "star"; 2) that any contract terms would need to be commensurate with that new role; 3) Morrow might not have accepted that new reality just yet; which would 4) put the ball mostly in Morrow's court rather than JR's at this point.  You don't want JR to wait to long and lose out on what Morrow would bring (again, fair enough). But what would YOU be willing to pay Morrow at this point in his career? I'm not trying to bust on you personally, just highlight some of the issues that I suspect all teams (not just ours) might be facing if they want to sign Morrow :).  Morrow might not have yet accepted his situation to the point that he is signable, at least for terms that most teams would consider reasonable.  

Edited by LakeLivin

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Fully agree guys, Nash has shown us a lot of promise and grit!

Ditto Chris Terry and Wallace (not as much upside, but layin it all out night-after-night).

Bowman? Not as much. He had plenty of ice time and I'm just not seeing that much upside.



If Lindholm can't threaten a 2nd liners spot, he should spend another year in Sweden.


And now you are coaching the team and GM-ing  it too?   :dizzy: 
 

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And now you are coaching the team and GM-ing  it too? :dizzy:

Fully agree guys, Nash has shown us a lot of promise and grit!

Ditto Chris Terry and Wallace (not as much upside, but layin it all out night-after-night).

Bowman? Not as much. He had plenty of ice time and I'm just not seeing that much upside.

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Another clip from the ESPN NHL rumor page:
____________________________________________________________

Toronto willing to trade Franson? in.gif July, 28, 2013 11:52 AM ET

By Luke Lapinski | ESPN.com
Not all that long ago, Cody Franson was one of the better prospects in Nashville's system. He played two seasons with the Predators, then was dealt to Toronto in 2011. He's been a solid asset on the blue line for the Maple Leafs ever since, managing 50 points and a plus-3 rating over 102 games -- in addition to chipping in six points over seven playoff games this past season.

That said, Franson is currently a restricted free agent. And it's not unthinkable that the organization might look to move him. In fact, according to TSN's Darren Dreger, the 25-year old rearguard's asking price may simply be too high for Toronto. He led the Leafs in scoring from the blue line this past season, but trade speculation is going to heat up until he's either signed or moved. Detroit -- among many other teams -- would be in the market for a good young defenseman, though Ansar Khan of MLive points out the unlikelihood that Toronto would trade him to a division rival.

Ideally, the Leafs would obviously just like to retain Franson. If they are forced to move him, however, Dreger suggests a prospect and a pick might be a fair return.

____________________________________________________________

 

If the Leafs are interested in trading him, and a prospect and a pick would do it, anybody interested in putting on their GM hat and mapping out a path to Carolina?

Edited by LakeLivin

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Another clip from the ESPN NHL rumor page:

If the Leafs are interested in trading him, and a prospect and a pick would do it, anybody interested in putting on their GM hat and mapping out a path to Carolina?

I've been thinking about Franson or Hainsey joining the Canes. What are the chances Sekera never physically makes it to Raleigh but his contract gets traded to make room in the top 4 for Hainsey and/or Franson. We've all been conjecturing that Pits, Gleason, or Harrison would be the contract moved but maybe Sekera is the way to make sufficient contract room. What do you folks think, am I let the Summer heat get to me?

 

Dreger mentioned in one quote that Carolina and a couple of other teams could/should be interested in Franson. I think only if he wants around $3M instead of the $4+M he may be asking to get. He could be a one hit wonder.

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Another clip from the ESPN NHL rumor page:

____________________________________________________________

Toronto willing to trade Franson? in.gif July, 28, 2013 11:52 AM ET

By Luke Lapinski | ESPN.com
Not all that long ago, Cody Franson was one of the better prospects in Nashville's system. He played two seasons with the Predators, then was dealt to Toronto in 2011. He's been a solid asset on the blue line for the Maple Leafs ever since, managing 50 points and a plus-3 rating over 102 games -- in addition to chipping in six points over seven playoff games this past season.

That said, Franson is currently a restricted free agent. And it's not unthinkable that the organization might look to move him. In fact, according to TSN's Darren Dreger, the 25-year old rearguard's asking price may simply be too high for Toronto. He led the Leafs in scoring from the blue line this past season, but trade speculation is going to heat up until he's either signed or moved. Detroit -- among many other teams -- would be in the market for a good young defenseman, though Ansar Khan of MLive points out the unlikelihood that Toronto would trade him to a division rival.

Ideally, the Leafs would obviously just like to retain Franson. If they are forced to move him, however, Dreger suggests a prospect and a pick might be a fair return.

____________________________________________________________

 

If the Leafs are interested in trading him, and a prospect and a pick would do it, anybody interested in putting on their GM hat and mapping out a path to Carolina?

This can be a good move only if two things work out. Franson's too high for Toronto asking price is not too high for Carolina, and two if the 'Canes trade for him it's not a pick+prospect, but rather a roster player and a prospect. Moving a pick and prospect isn't going to give us any wiggle room cap-wise. If JR can pull off a deal like one of Pitkanen (4.5 hit 1YR), Gleason (4m hit, 3YR, NTC), or Harrison (1.5hit, 3YR) and a prospect that will take off some cap as well like Welsh (850k hit, highest among 'prospects'). Assuming Franson's price is around 3m, moving Gleason or Pits is ideal. I'd rather not move either, but hear me out.

 

Pitkanen + Welsh  = +5m in space moved

for

RFA Franson (assuming he signs for ~3m) 

 

We gain 2m in cap space, while replacing Pitkanen immediately with a younger player on a more reasonable contract with less injury history. Welsh doesn't have to be the 'prospect' in the deal, I just use him to try and maximize a cap dump here. With the new 2m space, we sign Morrow and finish our goals for the offseason and focus on player conditioning and upcoming camp.

 

Toronto probably wouldn't be that willing to make this deal unless they like Pitkanen or Gleason. I'd rather move Pitkanen, but could understand Gleason being demanded in his place. They gain cap space with the deal, but have the option to leave Welsh to the Marlies so his 850k doesn't count against the cap. They improve one of the blueline spots and get a potential PP QB. If Pitkanen doesn't work out it's his last year, so there's less risk with Pits over Gleason for TO.

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This can be a good move only if two things work out. Franson's too high for Toronto asking price is not too high for Carolina, and two if the 'Canes trade for him it's not a pick+prospect, but rather a roster player and a prospect. Moving a pick and prospect isn't going to give us any wiggle room cap-wise. If JR can pull off a deal like one of Pitkanen (4.5 hit 1YR), Gleason (4m hit, 3YR, NTC), or Harrison (1.5hit, 3YR) and a prospect that will take off some cap as well like Welsh (850k hit, highest among 'prospects'). Assuming Franson's price is around 3m, moving Gleason or Pits is ideal. I'd rather not move either, but hear me out.

 

Pitkanen + Welsh  = +5m in space moved

for

RFA Franson (assuming he signs for ~3m) 

 

We gain 2m in cap space, while replacing Pitkanen immediately with a younger player on a more reasonable contract with less injury history. Welsh doesn't have to be the 'prospect' in the deal, I just use him to try and maximize a cap dump here. With the new 2m space, we sign Morrow and finish our goals for the offseason and focus on player conditioning and upcoming camp.

 

Toronto probably wouldn't be that willing to make this deal unless they like Pitkanen or Gleason. I'd rather move Pitkanen, but could understand Gleason being demanded in his place. They gain cap space with the deal, but have the option to leave Welsh to the Marlies so his 850k doesn't count against the cap. They improve one of the blueline spots and get a potential PP QB. If Pitkanen doesn't work out it's his last year, so there's less risk with Pits over Gleason for TO.

 

I like the idea of a trade, however, all of you have to factor in Nazem Kadri being a RFA as well.  If anything the Leafs will want to dump a bit of salary so as to leave room for Kadri's new deal which is likely to be $6 million plus.

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I like the idea of a trade, however, all of you have to factor in Nazem Kadri being a RFA as well.  If anything the Leafs will want to dump a bit of salary so as to leave room for Kadri's new deal which is likely to be $6 million plus.

Yeah I figured it isn't sexy enough for Toronto but I wanted to take a stab at it :P Especially when the asking price is made to have minimal salary coming back.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Yeah, I didn't think that through. My understanding is that the only reason the Leafs would do this in the first place is because they need space under the cap next year and might not be able to afford to resign Franson (he's only getting  $1.2m this season).  So they're not going to take on much salary.  Sounds like any route to Franson would require getting around the same obstacle we're facing now, we'd need to move someone out first.

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Yeah I figured it isn't sexy enough for Toronto but I wanted to take a stab at it :P Especially when the asking price is made to have minimal salary coming back.

 

Yeah, the only way this deal gets done is if Toronto takes no salary back or maybe a player with a 2 way deal.

 

Or JR can go the underhanded route and toss Franson an offer sheet that makes the Leafs gag.  Of course that could bite us big time, so...maybe not.

Edited by ScottTenorman

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I've been thinking about Franson or Hainsey joining the Canes. What are the chances Sekera never physically makes it to Raleigh but his contract gets traded to make room in the top 4 for Hainsey and/or Franson. We've all been conjecturing that Pits, Gleason, or Harrison would be the contract moved but maybe Sekera is the way to make sufficient contract room. What do you folks think, am I let the Summer heat get to me?

 

Dreger mentioned in one quote that Carolina and a couple of other teams could/should be interested in Franson. I think only if he wants around $3M instead of the $4+M he may be asking to get. He could be a one hit wonder.

Sekera is going to be in our top four and his cap hit isn't bad. Also, I don't know how he compares to Hainsey and Franson, but I like his mobility, relative youth, and potential. I want to give Sekera a chance here because if he works out, his contract is good. I would choose to move other pieces that have "shown" what they bring rather than a new face who could flourish with a new team.

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Yeah, the only way this deal gets done is if Toronto takes no salary back or maybe a player with a 2 way deal.

 

Or JR can go the underhanded route and toss Franson an offer sheet that makes the Leafs gag.  Of course that could bite us big time, so...maybe not.

I'm sure that's why the analysts are talking about prospects and picks, they're cheap.   Edit: deleted an incorrect comment about Franson's salary.

Edited by LakeLivin

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LL, sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you from yesterday, but a few things came up! My business is pretty unpredictable like that.1st, I think that I do agree with your statement, but am assuming that you are referring to Morrow's decreasing abilities(or what appears to be his decreasing abilities), but then again, do we really know how he will either fit in to the Canes' system or how he'll perform here, until he gets out on the ice?

 

As to terms, especially years vs salary, yes this is iffy, and you're right, he may not accept a less important role like we'd slot him in.

 

My statement simply was meant to imply that he does have "value" to this team, which likely goes beyond goals scored, thus gets into the realm of "immeasurable" when one focuses on statistics alone. Also, not knowing who is either on the market presently, or becoming so unexpectedly, I do think that JR delaying runs the risk of getting nobody.

 

All that aside, I fully agree that signing Morrow is taking a risk, even under the best of circumstances.

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Saw this article ranking our prospects...http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1558

 

I consider much of it white noise but one thing did stick out for me and that was Jeremy Welsh, who, according to this article can play center and wing.  There has been a good bit of talk about Riley Nash here and I agree that he showed a lot of promise last year and I still like him centering the 3rd or 4th line, the issue there was that he has a 2-way deal, Welsh has a 1 way and we are loaded at the center position.  Skinner centering Lindholm on the right side and Morrow (if we get him) on the left could be a pretty productive 3rd line.  That could leave Welsh to play wing with Nash and Dwyer and maybe take a shot at Dalpe or Bowman on the 2d line line with J and Ruutu.  Worth taking a peak at during the pre-season at least. 

 

Semin Staal Tlusty

Dalpe Staal Ruutu

Morrow Skinner Lindholm

Dwyer Nash Welsh

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Sekera is going to be in our top four and his cap hit isn't bad. Also, I don't know how he compares to Hainsey and Franson, but I like his mobility, relative youth, and potential. I want to give Sekera a chance here because if he works out, his contract is good. I would choose to move other pieces that have "shown" what they bring rather than a new face who could flourish with a new team.

See your point. So I'll take your post as a vote for Summer heat-stroke!!

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