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Except I'm not suggesting Cam is a bad goaltender, rather that his pay is a bit inflated. Yes, his stats are a bit worse due to not having an actual defense in front of him since 05-06, but he's also getting paid more then Miller, Fluery, Price, Hiller, Halak, Niemi, Rask, Schnieder, and Anderson, all of who are arguably better goaltenders (well, except Fluery, he couldn't stop a beach ball if he wanted to.) He's actually going to be 100k shy of reaching what Lou was going to be paid next year (he'll surely be bought out,) and even if this team had a proper defense I'm pretty sure he shouldn't be making 6.6 mil at any point in his career.

It's tough to really make an accurate assessment of Cam because our defense has been so bad the last few years. He doesn't help himself by letting in a soft goal almost evey game. As somebody mentioned earlier, we may have gotten a glimpse of his talent through comparison to Ellis and Peters playing consecutive games with that blueline. Is Cam over paid ... maybe. But I guess it's JR's perceived value to the team.

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It's tough to really make an accurate assessment of Cam because our defense has been so bad the last few years. He doesn't help himself by letting in a soft goal almost evey game. As somebody mentioned earlier, we may have gotten a glimpse of his talent through comparison to Ellis and Peters playing consecutive games with that blueline. Is Cam over paid ... maybe. But I guess it's JR's perceived value to the team.

 

Right, but in hindsight his contract doesn't exactly help with our need to acquire a top pairing defenseman and pretty much restocking our entire bottom six. While Cam's percieved value to the team is worth 6 million, it's yet another contract that adds to way over half of our cap (46 mil of self-imposed 60-61 mil cap for next season) being locked into the Staals, Semin, Ruutu, Skinner, Pitkanen, and Gleason, which severely limits our flexibility on obtaining the big pieces we need. That's not good business practice and the only time I've seen Cam play deserving of every penny of his contract would be in the 09 playoff run, where he was injured in the ECF and hasn't quite been the same since.

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The longer we dont make the playoffs regularly the longer we have to overpay dudes to play here. We have got to draft well or start winning. If not its going to be a never ending cycles of us overpaying the guys we have and the inability to sign the right guy(s) due to our imposed cap.

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This year should be some pretty good evidence of what Cam Ward means to this team.

 

Is he overpaid? Well, if you're not going to pay the defense might as well pay the goalie to bail them out night after night.

 

Just two years ago Cam was #3 in the league in wins, and #6 in save percentage (50 starts or more). Despite being hung out to dry like Grandma's laundry on a nightly basis by our "average at best" defense. 

 

This year Ellis and Peters took turns trying and mostly failing to be average at best. 

 

Losing Cam was like when we lost half of our defense, (which started the idea of massive losing this year). With any decent defensman out plus Cam out, was insurmountable the vast majority of nights. 

 

There is no question that Cam faces more quality shots nightly than most goalies. Yes, as with all goalies he does let in a softy, but he then rips off 8 saves that an average goalie might not make. 

 

I would just LOVE to see Cam behind an average or better NHL defense. 

 

Anyway, a healthy Ward, and an improved defense will make next year.

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This year should be some pretty good evidence of what Cam Ward means to this team.

 

Is he overpaid? Well, if you're not going to pay the defense might as well pay the goalie to bail them out night after night.

 

Just two years ago Cam was #3 in the league in wins, and #6 in save percentage (50 starts or more). Despite being hung out to dry like Grandma's laundry on a nightly basis by our "average at best" defense. 

 

This year Ellis and Peters took turns trying and mostly failing to be average at best. 

 

Losing Cam was like when we lost half of our defense, (which started the idea of massive losing this year). With any decent defensman out plus Cam out, was insurmountable the vast majority of nights. 

 

There is no question that Cam faces more quality shots nightly than most goalies. Yes, as with all goalies he does let in a softy, but he then rips off 8 saves that an average goalie might not make. 

 

I would just LOVE to see Cam behind an average or better NHL defense. 

 

Anyway, a healthy Ward, and an improved defense will make next year.

 

Well I guess that I did not take into account all those opposing shooters saving all their quality shots for Cam. My bad. Also should have thought of the might or might not saves. 

 

Not just defense, an offense that could have scored more than 1 or 2 goals per game during that string may have resulted in better numbers for all involved.

 

And I will say this again. The number of shots Cam faces per season are a function of the number of games played. If you take the time to average the number of shots per game, Cam will see no more that 3 ( yes that's THREE ) shots per game than other goalies. Sorry, I guess those were all those higher quality shots. 

 

Look and see how many time we have been down 3 or 4 goals on less than 20 shots. That leads to the other team to shoot more.. sharks in the water and all that.  Sometimes the team battles back ad looks like they are in the game and then the SOFTY shows up and we are buried. 

 

My biggest problem with our team is inconsistency in goal. Always a coin toss as to which Cam will show up. Will it be the once every 7 year playoff Cam, or will it be our usual Cam

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Dalpe? No. Dwyer? Maybe. Then again with an actual training camp who knows.

 

Also, what happened to the Playoff Pick'Em thread?

 

Also, one thing that's kinda bugged me. Cam is going to be making 6.6 mil next season, which when compared to say Antti Niemi at 4 mil seems like a bit of an over payment.

I think Dalpe is ready to make the leap. I thought he played well in his limited time. I'm not sure he is a third liner but I could see him skating with J and Ruu if Skins moves to third line center.  Having said that and as I have said before I really liked the third line of Dwyer/Nash/Ruutu. It lasted a short time but it looked like a third line to be reckoned with. Unfortunately who would skate second line in Ruu's place. It will be easier to find a third liner then a second line wing.

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Yeah, I thought Dalpe had more jump than Bowman and I liked Nash also. We have been looking for a third line since Sutter was traded. 

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Yeah, I thought Dalpe had more jump than Bowman and I liked Nash also. We have been looking for a third line since Sutter was traded. 

 

Bowman is curious. He has a heck of a wrist shot and he has speed. He had a tough year this short season. I wouldn't write him off but I'm having trouble seeing where he fits.

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I'm may be an outlier, and I like Nash, but I'm not in love with him either.  I have an open mind on filling that third line center position. Seems to me that's the key line to get going to make Muller's system work.  And it's not a checking line.

 

Skinner, Jordan, and Dwyer were the guys playing against top lines every night when we were really rolling early in the season.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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I'm may be an outlier, and I like Nash, but I'm not in love with him either.  I have an open mind on filling that third line center position. Seems to me that's the key line to get going to make Muller's system work.  And it's not a checking line.

 

Skinner, Jordan, and Dwyer were the guys playing against top line every night when we were really rolling.

 

Couldn't agree more about the third line being key for us in Mullers system. On the J line I thought Dwyer did fine but I really like him on the third line. I'm not sure how we are going to change the 3rd and 4th line but we are going to change them. 

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Well I guess that I did not take into account all those opposing shooters saving all their quality shots for Cam. My bad. Also should have thought of the might or might not saves. 

 

That is an excellent point though not quite the point you were trying to make. The point you actually wrote. A double negative of sorts when the sarcasm is included. The quality of shots a player gets is directly proportional to the quality of the defense. When teams are loading up on a higher percentage of point blank, and bang bang attempts, it has an effect. Do you honestly believe that the ability of the defense to limit quality chances has no role in a goalie's numbers? All defenses are the same?

 

You point out how few extra shots Cam faces. But I point out that the save % spread is also tiny. The year Cam was #6 of goalies in save %, the difference between his save % and #2? .007%

 

Someone probably keeps stats somewhere on quality scoring chances and maybe even "no chance" goals. If you can find a reputable source that shows that Cam faces even an average number of those, then I'll come over to your side a little. Until then it is opinion as to the quality of shots faced. The best goalies statistically are usually on the best defensive teams due to lower quality chances against. If you can't see how subpar our defense is, I'm not going to be able to convince you.

 

BUT even if you assume that Cam faces the average number of high quality scoring chances. Even then, two years ago he had the number 6 save % among goalies getting a decent number of starts. That does NOT factor in the quality of chances at all. That is just a straight percentage of the shots he stopped. That was not seven years ago.

 

My point was what happened to this team when Cam went down. Ellis and Peters trying to be #1's behind a bad defense unveiled how much defensive mediocrity Cam has covered up in recent years. 

 

But I've posted my thoughts on this about a million times over the years. You think Cam is below average other than the cup run apparently. You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

Edited by remkin

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Last offseason it was blatantly obvious we need a top line winger or a second line center. We got both. This year it was painfully obvious we need a real defense. If we manage to get those two veteran blueliners and a new face or two on the bottom 6, I don't really see any weak spot on this team. At all. That makes me excited, and it should make everyone else excited as well.

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That is an excellent point though not quite the point you were trying to make. The point you actually wrote. A double negative of sorts when the sarcasm is included. The quality of shots a player gets is directly proportional to the quality of the defense. When teams are loading up on a higher percentage of point blank, and bang bang attempts, it has an effect. Do you honestly believe that the ability of the defense to limit quality chances has no role in a goalie's numbers? All defenses are the same?

 

You point out how few extra shots Cam faces. But I point out that the save % spread is also tiny. The year Cam was #6 of goalies in save %, the difference between his save % and #2? .007%

 

Someone probably keeps stats somewhere on quality scoring chances and maybe even "no chance" goals. If you can find a reputable source that shows that Cam faces even an average number of those, then I'll come over to your side a little. Until then it is opinion as to the quality of shots faced. The best goalies statistically are usually on the best defensive teams due to lower quality chances against. If you can't see how subpar our defense is, I'm not going to be able to convince you.

 

BUT even if you assume that Cam faces the average number of high quality scoring chances. Even then, two years ago he had the number 6 save % among goalies getting a decent number of starts. That does NOT factor in the quality of chances at all. That is just a straight percentage of the shots he stopped. That was not seven years ago.

 

My point was what happened to this team when Cam went down. Ellis and Peters trying to be #1's behind a bad defense unveiled how much defensive mediocrity Cam has covered up in recent years. 

 

But I've posted my thoughts on this about a million times over the years. You think Cam is below average other than the cup run apparently. You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

 

Thanks from the peanut gallery.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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He might want to hurry up then, he's 25 already.  I can see him as a 4th line grinder at the peak of his NHL career.

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He might want to hurry up then, he's 25 already.  I can see him as a 4th line grinder at the peak of his NHL career.

 

He was very underwhelming for the Checkers this year....

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And JR has Welsh signed to a one-way next year.  The minute we did that deal I said it was a dumb move.

 

He can probably center a fourth line, but not much else.

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Biggest variable I see in play this off-season is the buyout clause in the new CBA.  I'm hoping that JR may be able to pick up a wily veteran affordable dman to add to the corps in addition to draft/trade/UFA deal.  Personally, I'd like to see Ellis backing up Cam.  Peters is a great guy but often looked "frozen" on wrap-arounds and after the first wave of a breakaway.  Statistically, did not the Canes demise start with Cam's injury?  Not saying that it's all on the goaltender.  It appeared to me that our defense choked up, not having the confidence in the crease.  Simple mistakes and turnovers doomed the team on several occasions.

 

Just a few thoughts.  How does the gang here see buyouts hurting/helping the Canes' cause?

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Peters is a great guy but often looked "frozen" on wrap-around........

 

given his track record and his "one-way" contract don't see him staying for next season

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given his track record and his "one-way" contract don't see him staying for next season

I agree, but didn't JR say that he had no plans of using contract buy-outs?  Would another team be interested in Peters for trade purposes?

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I agree, but didn't JR say that he had no plans of using contract buy-outs?  Would another team be interested in Peters for trade purposes?

 

given his track record with the Canes would another NHL team be interested in the guy?  he seems to be a decent guy.  hope he has an education to fall back on.

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given his track record with the Canes would another NHL team be interested in the guy?  he seems to be a decent guy.  hope he has an education to fall back on.

I would hope that for most players... 

 

I was just curious regarding backup roles, etc.  But, I definitely agree.  I don't see too many guys on the current roster that have solid trade value to bring in the needed defenseman aside from maybe Skinner.  I'd sure hate to see him go 'cause he's fun to watch at times, although frightening as well.  (Besides, we named our 7lb chihuahua Skinner to honor the spry young fella)  That's why I was wondering if there may be other defensemen any of you see as being potential buyouts that the Canes could nab and bolster the blue line.

Edited by pepcane

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As a note, I believe Jokinen was a healthy scratch for tonight's game (Pens vs. Isles) unless he was injured.

 

As for buyouts, I sure hope we find a way to move McBain. If not, he really should be bought out. If McBain is part of our top six defensemen next season, management has failed (again).  

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