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Justin Peters

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I am curious as to the general concensous as to what will happen to Justin Peters.  JR never (or almost never, can only think of Irbe as the exception) pays NHL wages in the AHL.  We also never carry three goalies.

 

So what do you think happens here?  Trade?  Pay him NHL wages in Charlotte?  Inquiring minds want to know.

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Guess...Peters will start in the AHL until we see what the other Chex goalies look like. If we are comfortable with their play we might try to move Peters later to a team that needs a backup (probable due to injury) with some NHL experience. Of course lots will depend on how Peters looks this season.

 

Injuries could change this but its my best guess.

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Guess...Peters will start in the AHL until we see what the other Chex goalies look like. If we are comfortable with their play we might try to move Peters later to a team that needs a backup (probable due to injury) with some NHL experience. Of course lots will depend on how Peters looks this season.

 

Injuries could change this but its my best guess.

wouldn't disagree but am hard pressed to see JR pay NHL wages in Charlotte or is that the Checkers problem?

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wouldn't disagree but am hard pressed to see JR pay NHL wages in Charlotte or is that the Checkers problem?

 

 

would this not be stipulated in his contract

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wouldn't disagree but am hard pressed to see JR pay NHL wages in Charlotte or is that the Checkers problem?

 

I'm not sure what pot the money comes out of but in the end it is all Canes money. Here is my thinking. If you aren't going to play Peters in the NHL what other team is going to grab him and pay him $1 mil if he is AHL bound. If you play him half a year for $500k and move him to a team in dire need of a backup. Well that isn't so bad.

 

Until we are sure of Wards health (I don't expect a problem)  why wouldn't we keep him. If Peters excels this season then his trade value increases.

 

Now if a deal comes along where he can be packaged before the season I would do it but otherwise I would ride the contract for awhile.

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I'm not sure what pot the money comes out of but in the end it is all Canes money. Here is my thinking. If you aren't going to play Peters in the NHL what other team is going to grab him and pay him $1 mil if he is AHL bound. If you play him half a year for $500k and move him to a team in dire need of a backup. Well that isn't so bad.

 

Until we are sure of Wards health (I don't expect a problem)  why wouldn't we keep him. If Peters excels this season then his trade value increases.

 

Now if a deal comes along where he can be packaged before the season I would do it but otherwise I would ride the contract for awhile.

according to NHLNumbers.com we are paying Peters $550k which I would think would make it an easier pill for another team to swallow.

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according to NHLNumbers.com we are paying Peters $550k which I would think would make it an easier pill for another team to swallow.

 

Even better.Not sure where I got the million stuck in my head.

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Even better.Not sure where I got the million stuck in my head.

btw, I learned the hard way this summer that Ocracoke is an Island.   My better half and I plus her sister took the LAST ferry over one weekend.  Was suppose to be a day trip!!

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btw, I learned the hard way this summer that Ocracoke is an Island.   My better half and I plus her sister took the LAST ferry over one weekend.  Was suppose to be a day trip!!

Haha..There could be worse places to be stuck. In regards to Peters, part of me is still hoping he finds his game.

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Personally I think Peters game is fine but it is more of the square peg in the round hole.  If given the chance he could be a good/great starting goalie somewhere BUT it takes a certain mindset to play backup and he doesn't have that.  We have only seen that in Legacy and Ellis.  He will never be able to go in cold and turn things around, he needs to be in a regular rotation which is why he excels at the AHL level.

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Although I'm optimistic about Khudobin (and think it was a nice signing) I don't think he's automatically the slam dunk solution that I suspect many others here do.  Take  look at this summary of free agent signings by Rob Vollman of the Hockey Prospectus:

______________________________________________________________________

Anton Khudobin, G, Carolina Hurricanes
1 year $0.8M/year | GVS 5.2

 

While his overall .920 save percentage was above average, it was actually a hit-or-miss season for Kazakhstan's Khudobin in Boston last year. Of his 14 starts, only eight were quality starts (where he stopped at least as many shots as the league average) and three were absolute disasters.

 

Can Khudobin be an effective NHL backup? The Hurricanes can risk just a single season and $800,000 finding out. As long as he plays at least as capably as backups like Peter Budaj, Jhonas Enroth, Michal Neuvirth and Jake Allen did last year, the Canes will be ahead of the game in terms of value.

_______________________________________________________________________

 

In his last 3 games last year he gave up 4 goals in a win against NJ, 2 in a shootout loss to Buffalo, and was pulled after 39 minutes and 3 goals against Philly. And that's behind Boston's defense.  Again, I'm optimistic about Khudobin, but cautiously so.  

 

To me the question about Peters right now is this: can he be effective at the NHL level as an occasional spot backup in an emergency? How do goalies typically develop compared to other positions? Peters is 26 years old. Is it reasonable to hope for improvement at this stage of his career (developmentally and psychologically after last years shelling)? 

Edited by LakeLivin

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Although I'm optimistic about Khudobin (and think it was a nice signing) I don't think he's automatically the slam dunk solution that I suspect many others here do.  Take  look at this summary of free agent signings by Rob Vollman of the Hockey Prospectus:

______________________________________________________________________

Anton Khudobin, G, Carolina Hurricanes

1 year $0.8M/year | GVS 5.2

 

While his overall .920 save percentage was above average, it was actually a hit-or-miss season for Kazakhstan's Khudobin in Boston last year. Of his 14 starts, only eight were quality starts (where he stopped at least as many shots as the league average) and three were absolute disasters.

 

Can Khudobin be an effective NHL backup? The Hurricanes can risk just a single season and $800,000 finding out. As long as he plays at least as capably as backups like Peter Budaj, Jhonas Enroth, Michal Neuvirth and Jake Allen did last year, the Canes will be ahead of the game in terms of value.

_______________________________________________________________________

 

In his last 3 games last year he gave up 4 goals in a win against NJ, 2 in a shootout loss to Buffalo, and was pulled after 39 minutes and 3 goals against Philly. And that's behind Boston's defense.  Again, I'm optimistic about Khudobin, but cautiously so.  

 

To me the question about Peters right now is this: can he be effective at the NHL level as an occasional spot backup in an emergency? How do goalies typically develop compared to other positions? Peters is 26 years old. Is it reasonable to hope for improvement at this stage of his career (developmentally and psychologically after last years shelling)? 

I believe the entire Boston roster had a horrible end to the year, hardly enough to go by to diminish Khudobin's value. And "only 8" in 14? That's better than half his games being quality starts, which for the 'Canes backup is something we've lacked in recent years and desperately needs. There should always be some caution with expectations on new players, but if you think Peters would outplay him in our backup role then I think you're extremely underrating Khudobin.

 

He will see a drop off in defense, but no one can say with absolute certainty what our defense will be/play like next year with Muller making his mark on the roster and having camp finally.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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I believe the entire Boston roster had a horrible end to the year, hardly enough to go by to diminish Khudobin's value. And "only 8" in 14? That's better than half his games being quality starts, which for the 'Canes backup is something we've lacked in recent years and desperately needs. There should always be some caution with expectations on new players, but if you think Peters would outplay him in our backup role then I think you're extremely underrating Khudobin.

 

He will see a drop off in defense, but no one can say with absolute certainty what our defense will be/play like next year with Muller making his mark on the roster and having camp finally.

 

I think you misinterpreted my intended meaning a bit.  You said "There should always be some caution with expectations on new players . . ." which is exactly the point I was trying to make.  As I pointed out, I like the signing. But the feeling I get (and I could be wrong) is that many are (perhaps subconsciously) expecting Khudobin to perform close to his career stats here (.933 save percentage).  Based on just 21 NHL games, most of them with Boston, I'm worried about excessive optimism which may be hard to live up to. 

 

My comments on Peters were completely independent of Khudobin.  Basically I'm asking: if Ward or Kdbn get hurt, is it realistic to expect Peters to be at a point where we trust him to be able to play a competent role at the NHL level given what we saw last year (and at this stage of his development)? And that truly is a question; I don't pretend to know either way. 

 

Edit: I just looked at The Hockey News profile for Khudobin (http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?4642) and here's what it says.  Again, not trying to put him down, rather get a realistic feel for what to expect.

 

Scouting Report

Assets: Has an abundance of puck-stopping ability. Is cool under pressure and plenty agile. Can put up great statistics at lower levels.

 

Flaws: Is wildly inconsistent, which hinders his National Hockey League value. Also lacks the ideal size for a goalkeeper at the highest level.

 

Career Potential: Talented but inconsistent goaltender with a little upside.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I had a problem with the article, not what you said really. The response was meant to be directed toward that, my bad  :o But yeah, his flaws aren't that big of a deal at all in a backup role, which is what he is going to be playing. Which is why I don't think him replicating his numbers from last season this year isn't that unrealistic.

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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Since we've had a revolving door at backup I find it hard to get optimistic about anyone in that position. Our defence really holds our goaltenders success in the palms of their hands.

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Since we've had a revolving door at backup I find it hard to get optimistic about anyone in that position. Our defence really holds our goaltenders success in the palms of their hands.

 

...or behind their backs with the goal lamp lit.

 

Just sayin'

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First, this may have been pointed out, but I didn't realize that Khudobin played for the Florida Everblades in 2008. Was he in our system, on loan? Just curious.

 

But I would just point out a couple of things:

 

1. Khudobin has only played 21 NHL games. When they call him wildly inconsistent, are they including his AHL/ECHL career, or just those 21 games? 

 

A. If they are counting his 21 games in the NHL, then BAH. How can a goalie become consistent if they are playing 1, 2, 4, and 14 games per season? C. Ward needed way more than that after his playoff magic to get consistent. 

 

B. We haven't had a consistent back up since 2006 anyway.

 

2. Khudobin has pretty sick NHL numbers over those 21 games:  14-5, .933 Sv%, 2.03 GAA. 

Yes most of those games were with the defensive powerhouse Bruins, but 6 were with the Wild, where he had a .954 sv % and 1.35 GAA over those 6 games. 

 

Those numbers apparently factor in his wildly inconsistent play. 

 

At some level, if that's what inconsistency looks like...sign me up. 

 

At another level, if this cat can put up those numbers with inconstant play, imagine what he could do if he ever found consistency? 

 

Here's another take:

 

If our defense plays it's usual Ole' defense, we could use a guy who can stand on his head a couple times, then blow one. At least he can snatch a few that we used to lose. 

 

Final take:

 

Seems like a classic JR value with upside move. We are hard pressed to find back ups. The Bruins are flush with goalie's in waiting and did not have room to keep Khudobin. At worst he can steal us a few games. At best, his numbers reveal a hidden potential diamond in the rough others have passed on. 

Edited by remkin

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If our defense plays it's usual Ole' defense, we could use a guy who can stand on his head a couple times, then blow one. At least he can snatch a few that we used to lose. 

 

You mean, like this?

 

 

When people talk about Cam Ward being "******** ** ****", I would offer this clip as Exhibit A on what is wrong with him and why the backup goalie usually ends up looking like a fool.  Too much coasting and poking a stick out.

 

I don't like the music they used in the clip.  I think "Yakkety Sax" (the Benny Hill Show song) would have been more appropriate and just speed up the video a little.  Hilarity ensues.

Edited by super_dave_1

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remkin: I want to be cautious because It's going to start to sound like I'm trying to tear Kdbn down and that's really not the case. I'm just a bit cautious about reading too much into a couple of summary stats given such a small sample size.  I would think that whoever did the Hockey News profile also looked at AHL and KLH performance instead of basing it on just 21 NHL games, but who knows?  I'm wondering if perhaps when Kdbn is good, he's very good, but on occasion he might give up an early goal or two and blow up.  I tried to look at his individual AHL and KHL games the past 2 seasons to see if that might be the case, but the sites I found just had breakdowns for the NHL.  I did find this from the KHL Moscow Oblast Atlant team statistics page (2012-13 season):

Goalies

Player Name         GP Min    GA GAA   W  L  T   Svs   Pct     EN SO

Stanislav Galimov  25 1389   45 1.94  14  6  3   750   0.943  0   4

Anton Khudobin     26 1499   74 2.96   6 14  4  763    0.912  0   1

ikita Davydov           5 264     14 3.18   0   5  0    152  0.916  0   0

 

I don't  want to read too much into a comparison of the stats between Galimov vs. Kdbn because we don't know what else was happening with the team at the time.  But I'd love to get the take from someone familiar with Oblast.  Maybe we'll get lucky and an Oblast fan will weigh in like that guy from Sweden did (but I doubt it).   

 

To repeat, I like the signing and remain guardedly optimistic :).

 

EDIT: Kdbn & Galimov were probably before & after the NHL lock-out, so the entire league was probably different when the two played, not just Oblast.
 

Edited by LakeLivin

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I completely agree about the small sample size. But at the NHL level it is his history. The small sample size also cuts both ways. When he has the bad outing, he does not have 5 more starts in a row to gently average things back out. Also, the lack of starts makes it harder for any goalie to find consistency. I am generally a Cam supporter, but I sometimes wonder how Cam would play if he got the occasional back up start. It took Cam a couple of years of 50+ starts to really find his consistency. 

 

So if Khudoben had these starts:

 

In his last 3 games last year he gave up 4 goals in a win against NJ......was pulled after 39 minutes and 3 goals against Philly.

 

And still posted .920 save %. Must have had some pretty good starts too. 

 

Another comparison, same team, Tuukka Rask .929 sv %. 

 

Fun with numbers.

 

Again, I agree he is far from proven, but given our options, the cost to risk/reward looks pretty good.

Edited by remkin

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If the point you're getting at is "you never know" you're right you never know. Gerber didn't have much of a resume at the time of signing, Irbe was a decent goalie but not great... Weekes was terrible and I will forever dislike him....Barasso was the only one with a pedigree other then Ward who at the time of the cup had nothing to his name.

 

So if you're getting at who knows with Khudobin then you're right.

2001-02:  Irbe, Barasso, Weekes

2005-06:  Gerber, Ward

 

Hmmm . . .

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You mean, like this?

 

When people talk about Cam Ward being "******** ** ****", I would offer this clip as Exhibit A on what is wrong with him a....

No perhaps more like this...  lets call it Exhibit B...

 

 

In any case, we've been down this path a zillion times before...  

Upshot? 

Cam is not an elite (top-5) NHL goalie, but its good we (the Canes) have him as he's still maybe the 12-20th best net minder in the league. That said, he's overpaid and it does hurt the team given economics do come into play when building a winning roster.

Regarding the music, I'll trust your call on that Super D.

 

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No perhaps more like this...  lets call it Exhibit B...

 

 

In any case, we've been down this path a zillion times before...  

Upshot? 

Cam is not an elite (top-5) NHL goalie, but its good we (the Canes) have him as he's still maybe the 12-20th best net minder in the league. That said, he's overpaid and it does hurt the team given economics do come into play when building a winning roster.

Regarding the music, I'll trust your call on that Super D.

 

 

You're like a dog with a bone.  You never let up.  Yes, that type of stuff should never happen to an elite goalie.  Here is Exhibit C...

 

 

You'll find both Martin Broudeur and Tim Thomas in this one.

 

 

You seem to be a sad little man who has nothing better to do than to find fault in things and argue non-stop.  You never have anything positive to contribute to any discussion.  I don't think either Cam Ward or Jordan Staal are perfect, but I also don't see them as being as worthless as you do.  You are probably reading this and giggling, thinking that you have gotten under my skin.  Not so.  I just don't have much of an internal editing process that keeps me from calling them as I see them.

Edited by super_dave_1

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Dave, you do recall you are the one that brought up this Cam Ward dialogue here implying he's an  ***** goalie, right? Not me. I was simply giving my view, from what I see.

So what exactly are you disagreeing with regarding Cam?

1) Cam is not an elite (top-5) NHL goalie
2) 
its still good we (the Canes) have him as he still may be the 12-20th best net minder in the league

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